Diets and Diseases

reply to post by JohnnyTHSeed


I understand that. But Sirnex was asserting that meats cause inflammation, when in fact the anti-oxidants in meat are ANTI-inflammatory. Additionally, the plants the caribou eat that contain ascorbic acid are not readily digested by humans, due to the high cellulose content in the cell walls, so eating meat with freely digested components allowed you to absorb a higher percent of that ascorbic acid.

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


digestive.niddk.nih.gov...

www.colitis-crohns.com...

theconsciouslife.com...

www.umm.edu...

www.ei-resource.org... /articles/candida-and-gut-dysbiosis-articles/intestinal-dysbiosis-and-the-causes-of-disease/

en.wikipedia.org...

Not sure what the required link number is to stem any possible whining about link numbers. Is this good for now?

reply to post by VneZonyDostupa


Ah I understand now.

I am not as well versed in the language of biology as you, but I will share what I have been taught...

In otherwise healthy people, the only problems I know of (off the top of my head) with animal protein arise when it is over consumed. Specifically there is an acidic byproduct produced when digesting animal protein. In order to neutralize and excrete this acid, calcium is leeched out of the bones. I also think gout is related to this process.

This is one of the reasons I decided to cut animal protein out of my diet, but I don't believe all meat is inherently unhealthy.

Factory farmed/corn fed/hormone pumped/etc. meat however.. but that is a different matter.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

digestive.niddk.nih.gov...

All of those diseases are due to undercooked foods. They aren't properties of the foods themselves. There have been similar outbreaks of disease in poorly handled vegetables, such as spinach and tomatoes. Should we stop eating our leafy greens, too?

www.colitis-crohns.com...

This site offers no references, data, or sources, apart from the book he's trying to sell. You don't find it the least bit suspicious that this man has some secret knowledge regarding Crohn's, oh, and he'll tell you for 21.99 USD?

theconsciouslife.com...[/url ]

Again, no references or sources, though they do offer to sell you products. There is one tidbit of information in here that is very interesting, though. They comment briefly on the Neu5Gc protein found in red meat. Even I will admit that, yes, this protein has been implicated in SOME diseases processes in SOME individuals. It's akin to having an allergy, that is, some people have immune systems that are capable of making antibody to this protein, which can promote some diseases. Of course, ridding yourself of red meat because you MIGHT have this genetic predisposition is similar to ridding your diet of all peanuts, eggs, gluten, and milk as a pro-active measure because you MIGHT be allergic. Certainly, you could do it, but why would you unless you are one of the unlucky individuals at risk?

[url=http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/pelvic-inflammatory-000124.htm]http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/pelvic-inflammatory-000124.htm

This site suggests a diet for those suffering from PID, which has a strong genetic component. Perhaps you should be looking for physio-normal diets, rather than cherry-picking those related to pathogenesis.

www.ei-resou... rce.org/articles/candida-and-gut-dysbiosis-articles/intestinal-dysbiosis-and-the-causes-of-disease/

This link doesn't seem to be working, so I'll withhold judgement.

en.wikipedia.org...

The "source" given for the information suggesting meats are a cause of IBS is a business website selling a "cure". Again, no data, no references, but a lovely store. What a coincidence.

Not sure what the required link number is to stem any possible whining about link numbers. Is this good for now?

There's no minimum requirement. I just wants linkes with references, sources, and which AREN'T trying to sell something.



[edit on 5/12/2010 by VneZonyDostupa]

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

Ah I understand now.

I am not as well versed in the language of biology as you, but I will share what I have been taught...

In otherwise healthy people, the only problems I know of (off the top of my head) with animal protein arise when it is over consumed. Specifically there is an acidic byproduct produced when digesting animal protein. In order to neutralize and excrete this acid, calcium is leeched out of the bones. I also think gout is related to this process.

This is one of the reasons I decided to cut animal protein out of my diet, but I don't believe all meat is inherently unhealthy.

Factory farmed/corn fed/hormone pumped/etc. meat however.. but that is a different matter.

I agree on all counts. Eating an excessively high protein diet is unhealthy, just as a high-anything diet is unhealthy.

Also, I feel similarly about factory farmed meat. I prefer to get mine from a local farmer's market that sells better quality beef. Though, obviously, this isn't an option to everyone, costwise, which is unfortunate.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by whitewave

 

What do you know about those HCG drops?
That is what I am starting very soon and
thought I would ask for your opinion.

Good to see you again mamabeth. In my limited knowledge of HCG (human chorionic gonadatropin) as a diet aid, I'd have to say it's one I'd personally avoid.

HCG is called the pregnancy hormone although it's actually in both genders. It stimulates the hypothalamus to get the fat burning for extra energy for the developing fetus. (IIRC)

The bad part of the diet is that, in addition to the DAILY shots (or doses), you're also supposed to severely limit your caloric intake to starvation levels. This is a bad move for soooooo many reasons.

1) With caloric intake around 500 calories a day, you're not even getting enough to keep your brain functioning right. You'll get light-headed, dizzy, testy, easily irritated, etc. You could pass out. If you do activities that require you to be alert, you won't be. It's dangerous for that reason.

2) When your caloric intake is reduced to starvation levels, your body freaks out and HANGS ON to fat because it never knows when it'll see another meal again. It's counter productive for that reason.

3) If you have to limit your calories to 500-700 calories a day, why BOTHER with a daily injection? Or drops? Obviously it wouldn't be the drug having the effect, it would be the starving yourself. It's useless for this reason.

4) If you're literally starving yourself, your chances for success drop dramatically. You'll always be hungry and it will be easier to slip up and eat something, anything just because you're starving. It requires tremendous will power. If you had tremendous will power, you probably wouldn't feel the need to go on a diet anyway. It's pointless for this reason.

IMHO, of course. I haven't noticed that regular doctors know a lot about diets. It's best to consult with a nutritionist/dietician before embarking on any major change in the way you fuel your body. You consult with a doctor to see about the exercise tolerance for your body during a diet change.

Have you had your thyroid checked?

reply to post by whitewave


My family has a history of thyroid problems.
The Dr. claims my thyroid is working within
the "normal" range.I have been complaining
about these symptoms for over 15 years and
no one listens.
The sad part is,I spent $200.00 for those drops!
They are sitting in my fridge now.I had a few things
to buy before starting the diet.My stepson bought
these drops as well.His only cost $50.00 because he
went through the VA to get them!
As a christian,I don't drink alcohol period.These drops
contain 16% alcohol and I don't like that at all.

I found this and decided to add it here.
www.1-thyroid.com...

[edit on 12-5-2010 by mamabeth]

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

Ah I understand now.

I am not as well versed in the language of biology as you, but I will share what I have been taught...

In otherwise healthy people, the only problems I know of (off the top of my head) with animal protein arise when it is over consumed. Specifically there is an acidic byproduct produced when digesting animal protein. In order to neutralize and excrete this acid, calcium is leeched out of the bones. I also think gout is related to this process.

Meat and seafood contain high concentrations of purines, the byproduct of which is uric acid. Hyperuricemia, high concentrations of uric acid in the blood, typically leads to uric acid crystals that tend to gather in joints, most notably the big toe, causing extreme pain.

Fructose is the real culprit. Alcohol as well, considering they're metabolised by the liver almost identically.

It's also worth noting that insulin inhibits uric acid excretion......so keep insulin levels balanced and low is the key. Meat consumption has little to do with it.

-Dev

reply to post by mamabeth


I had not heard of HCG so I did some light reading.

Like other gonadotropins, hCG can be extracted from ... the urine of pregnant women. Ovidrel, on the other hand, is a product of recombinant DNA.

Personally, the alcohol content in that vial is the last thing I would be worried about.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by JohnnyTHSeed]

reply to post by whitewave


I'll add to your post.

If you'll go back and read the semi-starvation studies conducted by Ancel Keys (the man that demonized saturated fat) you'll quickly realize that a 500 calorie diet is not only dangerous, but also completely ineffective.

Minnesota Starvation Experiment

Among the many conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis as measured using the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI), a standardized test administered during the experimental period. Indeed, most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression. There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally).[1] Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation. The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject’s basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest) and reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema (swelling) in the extremities, presumably due to the massive quantities of water the participants consumed attempting to fill their stomachs during the starvation period.

Would like to know how many calories these gentlemen were consuming?

Semi-Starvation Period (24 weeks): During the 6-month semi-starvation period, each subject’s dietary intake was cut to approximately 1,560 calories per day. Their meals were composed of foods that were expected to typify the diets of people in Europe during the latter stages of the war: potatoes, rutabagas, turnips, bread and macaroni.

Sound familiar? That describes the typical american low-fat diet.

That's just one of many studies conducted during that time period. More compelling studies were coming out of Austria and Germany....but were simply ignored (remember, WWII).

If you want to learn about Diets and Diseases you should read a couple books

- Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, by Weston A. Price: An oldie but a goodie. Dr. Price was a Dentist that traveled around the world documenting traditional people's diets....free from westernization...comparing their diets, their dental health and overall physcial health.

- Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes: it reads like a textbook/journal publication. Has more pages of references and sources than many entire books. It's a book that details the history of nutritional research, dating back to anecdotes and books from 200 years ago to 2007.

-Dev
- Good Calories, Bad Calories, Gary Taubes

Thanks momabeth for that link. I may have to try that out. I've been told I've got hypothyroidism and even had Synthroid prescribed. Just haven't taken any yet.

I realize fluoride is the main killer of thyroid function so I've been drinking bottled water for a while but I can't really afford to bathe in it so it's still affecting my thyroid.

Good recommendations, Dev. Thanks for those.

It's hard to keep up with the latest info when it keeps changing every year.

At one time the food pyramid was the ultimate in nutritional advice.

And have you ever actually tried to drink 8 glasses of water a day, exercise for at least a half hour in the morning upon arising, eat 5-8 vegetable and fruit servings a day? Not to mention all the other "health musts" recommended.

You'd have to have a team of specialists working on your intake consumption. You'd have to be obsessed with eating. I like the K.I.S.S. method and just eat as fresh as possible.

If you really want to get technical about the food you eat, you'd have to analyze the soil composition to determine the nutrient content and a host of other factors.

Great contributions, all.

Originally posted by whitewave


It's hard to keep up with the latest info when it keeps changing every year.

A valid point. And what makes it worse are the conflicting reports that cause insecurity in the public's opinion on health authorities and they begin to just ignore EVERYONE.

What I've done to keep up with the latest info is: find researchers/experts that are objective and credentialed; review health articles written by journalists critically; learn some biochemistry, research methods and journal writing so that I can read the journal entries as they are published.

The biggest thing that helped me was reviewing the history of nutritional research.....it's eye opening.

If you really want to get technical about the food you eat, you'd have to analyze the soil composition to determine the nutrient content and a host of other factors.

Weston A. Price did this very thing in the 30's while traveling around the world analyzing different indigenous culture's.

-Dev

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd

Originally posted by whitewave


It's hard to keep up with the latest info when it keeps changing every year.

A valid point. And what makes it worse are the conflicting reports that cause insecurity in the public's opinion on health authorities and they begin to just ignore EVERYONE.

True. That was actually my initial reaction. Just throw my hands up and wait until the experts have it all figured out and take it from there. Unfortunately, we can't afford to wait until the "experts" tell us what's what. Our food is being poisoned now and we need answers now.

What I've done to keep up with the latest info is: find researchers/experts that are objective and credentialed; review health articles written by journalists critically; learn some biochemistry, research methods and journal writing so that I can read the journal entries as they are published.

See? That seems a bit excessive to me just to find out if what you buy in the grocery store to feed your family is something that's eventually going to make your hair fall out, pack 50 pounds onto your hips or cause a health problem 20 years down the road. If you're getting a degree in the subject, those are reasonable measures but just to eat? We're all on information overload already and who has that kind of time to devote to journals, keeping up with the latest studies, finding out which scientists are considered "valid" in their field, etc.?

The biggest thing that helped me was reviewing the history of nutritional research.....it's eye opening.

You realize, of course, we're all going to be coming to you now for nutrition information.

If you really want to get technical about the food you eat, you'd have to analyze the soil composition to determine the nutrient content and a host of other factors.

Weston A. Price did this very thing in the 30's while traveling around the world analyzing different indigenous culture's.

I'm sure the soil composition of most places has changed radically since Price did his study in the 1930's. There have been several chemical spills, mining "accidents", pollution increases, nuclear testings and tauntings, and so on. I just found out the other day that the most toxic place in America is right here in Oklahoma (Picher) from lead contamination. Lots of technologies to muck up the soil, air, water and, by extension, our food.

reply to post by whitewave


See? That seems a bit excessive to me just to find out if what you buy in the grocery store to feed your family is something that's eventually going to make your hair fall out, pack 50 pounds onto your hips or cause a health problem 20 years down the road. If you're getting a degree in the subject, those are reasonable measures but just to eat? We're all on information overload already and who has that kind of time to devote to journals, keeping up with the latest studies, finding out which scientists are considered "valid" in their field, etc.?


It is excessive, but it's a passion of mine. You're right; the average Joe doesn't have the time or the discipline to hunt for nutritional fact. Instead, they listen to their MD (generally a bad idea), ADA, AHA, USDA (organizations funded by giant food corporations), dietitians (still misinformed), blogs (lol).......and probably the worst of all, corporate entities offering nutritional advice with the intent to gain profits....See PEPSICO.

It's best to get information from professionals that understand biochemistry/nutrient biology, is objective and humble, has reviewed the history and either has conducted research or has an in depth understanding of research methodology.

You realize, of course, we're all going to be coming to you now for nutrition information

Sounds good to me....I'm already used to it. It won't be long before it becomes my career!

-Dev

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
reply to post by VneZonyDostupa

 

Sirnex is saying that caribou do not eat meat.
The caribou get the ascorbic acid from plant matter, the innuit then eat the caribou, along with the stomach contents.

I can't begin to describe how thrilled and excited it is to finally see someone who can comprehend what they are reading.

@VneZonyDostupa

So, let's let the readers be the jury, hm?

Yes, let's do that. Thankfully some can comprehend a simple sentence as you can see above.

Really? Why do you have to dwell on this?

Here's the sentence.

I remember reading that the Inuit get ascorbic acid by eating the
stomach contents of Caribou... Last I heard, they don't eat meat.

Looks like it's you constructing misleading sentences. In fact, anyone with basic grammar education will apply your last sentence to the Inuit.

Can we leave this alone now?

I find it laughable that youre argument is supported by...."something you read"

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

I find it laughable that youre argument is supported by...."something you read"

Really? Seriously? WTF is that supposed to be? Are you crying out to be called a hypocrite?

Not too many posts ago, how did you say you came about *your* information?

Right... I'll say it if you want me to, but only because *you* want me to.

HYPOCRITE

Are you really that dense? Here, I'll break it down for you...

I remember reading somewhere.......

vs.

According to an article written by Sally Fallon and Mary Enig (the two leading lipid researchers).......

Do you see now? Your credibility has no merit when your support is based on "something you've read".

I mean....I remember reading something on this site that was "proof" of alien visitation!

-Dev

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


Something I've read vs something you've read vs links still amounts to something we've read. Nor was the statement being given as irrefutable evidence of anything. If you mistook it as an attempt at irrefutable evidence for anything, then I'm sorry you assumed much. If I failed to provide a link, anyone is more than welcome to verify the validity of *any* statement made by *anyone* with a simple search. So the whole argument of Ooooh you didn't link it, is pure grasping at air BS.

Sorry, i don't hold hands with everyone I meet on ATS.

You know, I read somewhere once that fat is bad for you!