Just humour me for a minute or 2

Dont know if I speak for others, but I am getting pretty fed up with the old dis-info agents popping in to *important* topic threads.

So I will make my point, and ask kindly that a certain list of users (my ignore list) do not respond for at least 24 hours to give some chance of uncoloured debate.

My point? Simply put - sticking to the known laws of physics and evidence as is commonly accepted - the following become clear:

There is no god
9/11 was an inside job (100%)
man has not walked on the moon

I throw in the first point without trying to challenge religion, or faith or belief systems. Simpy looking at evidence, there is no sign of god. I do know and accept that our knowledge of science is incomplete and flawed, but I am sticking to common sensical evidence.

My real points are the latter 2. Both are elaborate illusions. Executed to perfection. However, they differ in that the moon hoax was virtually victimless (apart from the 3 atronauts burned at the stake) while 9/11 has caused more suffering, death an pain than... well I was gonna say the Catholica church but i wont.

The single major argument AGAINST them being hoaxes is that they are too big - who could keep such a thing secret?

That is why the same set of disinfo agents contributes to any thread concerning 9/11 or exposing the moon hoax.

There are no UFO bases on the moon. Sorry. its a ploy to keep the hoax a secret.

If either one of these is exposed - I mean really exposed to general public, the other will be exposed almost immediately because that single argument that says its too big a lie to keep secret will fall.

I would appreciate thoughts on this, except from weedwhacker, tradtionaldrummer, goodoldave and the other agents (you know who you are).

reply to post by hmmmbeer


I think it is a matter of being able to debate a topic, based on personal experience, and research, that forms a persons opinion.

You have expressed yours here, by way of your own beliefs in God, and it seems to me, that nobody could ever sway your opinion on that.

So, saying that, I think you are being over the top, labeling specific members of ATS as disinfo agents. Everyone of them you listed, always brings an enjoyable side to threads for me, as they can come up with what I view as well thought out remarks, and responses.

My feeling is that you are what you are labeling here, a disinfo agent!

reply to post by hmmmbeer

There is no God... I am sticking to common sensical evidence.

If, (in your opinion) attributing life as we know it on Earth to being a smashing together of two atoms, not the handy work of a Divine influence - I would suggest you misspelled sensical... NON-sensical would have me in your full agreement.

No God?

lol

peace

The single major argument AGAINST them being hoaxes is that they are too big - who could keep such a thing secret? That is why the same set of disinfo agents contributes to any thread concerning 9/11 or exposing the moon hoax. There are no UFO bases on the moon. Sorry. its a ploy to keep the hoax a secret.

Interesting thoughts. I see your logic, it does make sense.

I am not sure about said members being disinfo agents though. I think they are just avid skeptics and can't help themselves when it comes to being 'right'.
I am not saying they are always right, because there are times when they seem to just conclude the easiest explanation for the unexplained. Sometimes I welcome their factual down to earth explanations but other times I think they should loosen up a bit.

The other indicator that the skeptics here are not disinfo agents is when they post things just in humour or none conspiritorial threads.

Or maybe that is just a tactic they use to throw you offguard

I should not have brought god into this - i was just trying to illustrate the concept of proof and evidence.

Lets stick to the 9/11 and moon issue.

Its a bit like watchinf the video of the boeing hit pentagon.

Apart from the fact there was no plane in the video, the damage totally inconsistent with a boeing hit and of course no debris from a boeing.... the official story is toally believable.

I just want to wake up a few people and get them thinking critically. Challenge everything if you think its worth challenging. have open honest debate.

reply to post by hmmmbeer


Hi there.

Ill voice my opinion about there not being a God.
I dont think there is.
Like you say, there is no proof of an existance of one all knowing entity that knows all whilst being every-where.
Now... To put my mind at rest and to also make me sound like a hypocrite I am swayed to beliving sometimes just incase.. (even though apparently being a slight beliver is sin, so me trying to cover my back, ill still be going to Hell.)

And now, since there is no God, then rise's the possibility that a Lot of the Alien belivers belive.

That we where created.

There is no God, but there is a Creater.

The debate on belife can flow down a stream till it comes to a waterfall.
It gets to a point where your the one beneath that waterfall getting bombarded with infomation untill you eventually drown in it.
Or until it washes your brain.. - brainwashing.

Thats what then goes with religion. The belife in something that dosnt exist, yet your so sure about it, you'll fight for it.
Despite there being no reward other than fueling the religious ego.

The belife in God/Religions got us to where we are today.
Are we, as a society happy though..?

reply to post by hmmmbeer
The 'Moon-landing Hoax' so cool they did it again....and again...and again...etc

Of all the conspiracies that get trotted out every week on ATS, the 'Moon hoax' is one that draws most pity. Actually no, it's the Chemtrailers I pity most. At least Moon-hoaxers have passing contact with reality.

A hoaxer and Chemtrailer cross is someone that sees false flag operations every time a sock gets lost in the washer.

So the people that disagree with your premise are disinfo agents?

Interesting. Also quite ignorant IMO.

You can't ask people to not post in a topic you've opened for discussion. This is a forum and by stating your belief in something (and yes, it's only a belief, you can't "prove" anything, about anything.) you've opened the door for your views to be challenged.

You are tired of disinfo agents? I am tired of members like you who can't stand having their views challenged in an intelligent and cohesive way.

Look I'm with you on 9/11, but the moon hoax thing, come on. There's TONS of evidence to suggest we did go to the moon and people are right: You can't keep something that big, secret. You just can't.

Was the footage we were shown real? I doubt it.

Did we go to the moon. Yes. We left mirrors there, we use them all the time. Hell you can go on Google Moon and look at the rovers and pieces of junk we left there.

I'm not here to argue for or against those however. I just wanted to say that you asking people to NOT post, is going to make them post.

You know reverse psychology and all that jazz...

~Keeper

ok, one last point on religion. i really wanted this to be about exposing 9/11 and/or the moon hoax

I feel very strongly that if it was shown that there is a god, life for me would become meaningless. That fact that I am a free spirit, uncontrolled by anyone, keeps me happy.

It is exactly that spirituallity of being free that allows me to see above the fog; those that believe the impossible are kept in the fog. I understand spirituallity - its just that I believe in nature, my friends, family, neighbours and myself, not in god. And I am free. Unencumbered by unprovable beliefs.

Now please try to take onboard while discussing how we bring the perpetrators of 9/11 to justice.

reply to post by hmmmbeer


My enemy list would not be the same as your enemy list. Your list are probably just people who think differently - but strongly- than you do.

People who drive me crazy are those that throw down a negative comment without reading the thread, and those that say, "No photo, No proof."

Back to your 3 topics. I feel like I met God in person. So what is God? An alien? All of yourself when you use all of your brain? All of the universe?

reply to post by silo13


He is logical to speculate there is no god. In science we can only propose theories and hypothesis with workable, observable data.

Where is the data/evidence for GOD except from the secondary source of man in a Bible?

Next question? Do you trust man?.... after all the wars, the lies, the killing, the corruption? I don't. Thats why i am an Atheist.

This is my personal opinion, and again we can only speculate that there is or isn't a god because it is unfalsifiable and unknowable.

reply to post by hmmmbeer


I can 100% prove to you that god does exist...

Let me know if you would like me to do this.

reply to post by tothetenthpower
The amount of information, facts, data, museum pieces, interviews, transcripts, video footage and technological innovations arising from the Apollo missions that gets fed to the 'Moon hoaxers' in every thread without sticking is fantastic. They will not be dissuaded or informed. Links are ignored. Facts tossed aside.

When they finally get a notion of cognitive dissonance, they shrug it off and call the cause of the discomfort a 'disinfo agent!' I go through the same cycle in the Ancient and Lost Civs forum when I'm trying to show that Egyptians could cut rock.

What I was replying to say (rant over), is yes. The 'uninvited' will indeed turn up. I'm tempted to u2u Weedwhacker

Ah, didnt see earlier about not mentioning God.

To the other subjects.
9/11.. I dont think it was an inside job.
Although, here on ATS we speculate and debate about it in topics, and sometimes I think the topics can be pretty persuasive and they really make you question about what really did happen.
So we nit-pick just hoping to find something that we can use against the official story to add weight to the belief that it was staged.
If anything is questionable though, I think its the speculation that the US Gov. where aware of an attack.
Yet, not following up on that, led to the final outcome..

Incompetence..? Im supprised that with the paranoia and daily threats that goverments get, more attacks havnt slipped through their networks.
As said - Every attack is heard about, yet every saviour is forgotten (ugh.. Sounds religious, but its true.)


The Moon landing on the other hand, guess the only way to find out the truth is to go back.
But then the arguements like the return mission planted the flag's etc. To try cover it up will crop up.
A lot of people are suspicious in nature, and imagining we went to that big block of cheese in the sky is too unbeliveable for some.

I think we did go to the moon.


Edit - Grammar.. I think and cant spell.

[edit on 8/5/10 by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire]

reply to post by Izarith


Well sure... I am always open to 100% proof. I love to proved wrong and learn something.

Can I prove to you that 9/11 was 100% inside job? Would you then tell your friends and finally try to get the people behind 9/11 to face justice?

reply to post by hmmmbeer


Cool beans.

OK for 100% proof of god you will need to look into a mirror. Once you have done that you will see a dieing sack of flesh that is destined to rote until it returns to the dust from whence it came.

But the proof in God come from the divine entity looking at the roting flesh in the mirror.

You exist, your mind is real, you are God.

You are a spark of light a piece of God as unique and individual as God himself.

Once you understand this, Try to disprove what i have said and you will have your proof.

Don't worry about 9/11 the only reason you know anything about it is because they want you to. Do you think they would make it so obvious if they did not want you to?

By drawing your attention to Who did it, you will never look for Why, what was in those building and why did what ever was in them need to be destroyed.

Oh an now that you are god....I'd like a pony and a plastic rocket for Christmas.

reply to post by hmmmbeer


God, the probe on the Apollo lander site, and 50 years of American aggression that caused 9/11, all gleefully say hi!

reply to post by Izarith


How does being self aware make you a God?

Is every living life form that is 'aware' a God?

Look at animals, they look in mirrors and dont know what their looking at...

If anything its the knowledge that you are aware.

And looking in the mirror lets you know how diffrent you are to everybody.

Folks, I am more than happy to start and host another thread on god. And self-awareness, consciousness, spirituality...

It is a topic worthy of enless debate.

But today I am keen on opening the eyes and minds of those under the spell of the evil ones - those who perpetrated 9/11 and continue to commit atrocities in countries around the globe, and make it seem 'normal'. Confusing the term 'insurgent' with freedom fighter.

reply to post by Esrom Escutcheon Esquire


Well first we would need to define what God is then we could define what is a god.

everything people need to know about who they are, where they came from, and where they are going is under all our noses.

We just would rather get distracted by denying our own existence.

Being conscious is one this being aware of your own conscious is what God is made of.