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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by faceoff85
We though, as humans have empathy, compassion and love and you only have to look around and at history to show that religion has caused war, corruption and hatred towards fellow human beings.
I'm not going to oppose an Agnostic's belief because to be honest, everyone should be Agnostic (including me), because simply: "we just don't know" but i am highly skeptical, and i don't think these "beliefs" or religions provide me with anything that would help me live my life any better.
Originally posted by the illuminator
I just have one question.
why do athiest's seem to always try and disproof christianity?
what about all the other religions?
why pick on the christians?
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by faceoff85
I'm not sure if your screwing around and being a bigot, or if your just uneducated in the Qur'an. With that said, the Qur'an teaches the value of life just as much as the bible teaches.
The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, (…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am 6: 151) and Allah says in the Qur’an, (Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)) (Al-Israa’ 17: 33). According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity.
Point of fact is, I'm trying to correct an error in your argument. You can't just claim one group of people are not true to their religion for using choice verses out of context and then claim another group for doing the same thing are just doing what their religion "teaches" when both religions equally teach the same message of 'thou shalt not murder'.
If you were unaware that Islam is a peaceful religion, then I'm sorry for calling you a bigot.
Case in point, both religion have adherents of them that use choice verses to justify acts of terrorism and killing. No amount of sweeping under the rug is going to change that. You should make it a point to study various religions before making claims against them. I'm not sure if your Christian or not, I don't remember you saying so outright, but if you are then your a perfect example for why Christians get picked on. In this case, making an uneducated and intolerant claim towards another religion that teaches the same message.
Originally posted by faceoff85
the old testament did in fact by law decree that certain people under certain conditions were to be slain but the new testament learns that we living today should not do that anymore... those times ended when Jesus sacrificed himself. I could start throwing with bibleverses but lets not
Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by K J Gunderson
hehehe... I was afraid of that... give me a minute and I'll edit this post with the verses.
Well my specialty lies in the bible but I have in fact done some homework on other religions as well as have tons of discussions with my muslim friends so educated is stretching it but I am a bit knowledgeable.
I understand what you are trying to get across but my point lies specifically in the above mentioned laws for wich there would be reason to kill. The way I learned it is that the bible condemns us for any type of violence under any circumstances. the old testament did in fact by law decree that certain people under certain conditions were to be slain but the new testament learns that we living today should not do that anymore... those times ended when Jesus sacrificed himself. I could start throwing with bibleverses but lets not
Now from what I learned about the quran is that there are laws wich ALL people should abide to. and if not, depending on what has been done, the quran teaches that breaking certain laws should be punished by death. If I am wrong pleace correct me since I do not wish to spread wrong info. This was the point I tried to make clear.
Very true. So I humbly accept you correcting me.
I know to little about the quran to make that assesment except for my own experiences, and lets just say I'd chose a muslim neighbour over a christian one ANY DAY!!!! if only, for the fact that I love to mow my lawn on sunday
But the point I am trying to make is that people who do the abovementioned... can they truly be called believers? I mean religion can be interpreted so many ways but what would a deity who teaches love, think of his followers using his message to justify murder?
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by faceoff85
Then you've knowingly made an erroneous statement, in which case you were indeed being a bigot. Both the religions no more condones acts of killing no more than the other does. They are both religions who's core message is one of peace.
You want to throw verses? How about we cite a verse from the good man Jesus himself shall we?
Mathew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Jesus never brought a new covenant for Christians and the only mention of a new covenant in the original Hebrew bible, the one Jesus would have been reading back in the day, was in Jeremiah 31:31-34. This prophecy was for the house of Judah and Israel and makes no mention of ushering in a new law or religious offshoot called Christianity. Not to mention that ALL of the prophecies were meant only for those two houses, of which Christianity falls under neither of them.
Biblical scripture also contains many violent laws, like killing disobedient children as well, nor did Jesus abolish these laws either. Your point there is again unfounded.
Well, I'm sorry if I come off as if I'm trying to pick a fight, and mind you the above wasn't an attempt either. I get heated in religious debates as I've read many religious texts and learn about various religions for fun.
Why would you choose a Muslim neighbor when you just attempted to call the Muslim faith one of violence? Your a confusing person!
Yet, those same deities also tell their followers to conduct acts of violence, like killing babies. Should we then say that the people who listened to God when he commands death are not really believers of God because God is a contradictory deity wh
hehehe... I'll just see this as you being heated. must say you pose a great "challenger" but mind you I as well intend to keep it a friendly discussion. anyway I'll take your word for it, I havent "judged" the islam whatsoever. I do condemn whatever harm any human does to another and I recognize that the people we hear about in the news dont represent the people as a whole.
For one... I FULLY understand both the old and new Covenant mentioned in the bible. And although its true Jesus did not throw out the 10 commandments, the same cannot be said for the way god's people interacted with god. where in the past they needed any form of blood-sacrifice in any form of worship. Be it asking for forgiveness or asking for a favor or whatever, this was undone by the PERFECT sacrifice Jesus's blood provided. God's followers were still to respect the 10 commandments but the stoneing of violators or any other form of blood-sacrifice was no longer needed since Jesus sacrificed his PERFECT blood FOR US.
Those laws were again part of the old testament and were indeed undone by Jesus's sacrifice. I'd like to refer you to my previous post where I give some scriptures showing the undoing of the previous covenant (note, this does not mean the 10 commandments are void. it merely means that people needn't take action to enforce them anymore)
well I believe muslims in general to be a respectfull and loving people, I live in an area with more muslims than christians and I wouldn't have it any other way. my christian brethren (the ones I know) are untrustworthy and VERY hypocritical. My muslim neighbours pose the best neighbours and friends I have had
uhmmm.... yeah to much for me there... I cant come to the same conclusion. This has been a sharpening of the blade to me. thnx
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by faceoff85
From this point forward, when you make a scriptural claim, please quote the verse in question.
Can you quote any verse where such sacrifices were to no longer be performed at all and please explain why Jesus and the Apostle Paul both offered sacrifices.
Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by the illuminator
I got older and started asking questions for which the Bible had no answer (certainly no satisfactory one) I realized that it wasn't the end all be all book, it wasn't perfect.
[edit on 8-5-2010 by Titen-Sxull]
Originally posted by the illuminator
I just have one question.
why do athiest's seem to always try and disproof christianity?
Originally posted by Fromabove
Christianity by and large is a tolerant belief.
Originally posted by Fromabove
If one attacks Islam, they will kill you, or torture you first then kill you, or kill all your family, no wait, torture all your family, then kill them, then torture you and and then kill you, and maybe blow up something just for laughs and virgins. So if someone, say, an atheist attacks Christianity, everyone goes "ho hum..." and goes about their day.
Originally posted by Fromabove
You will never see atheists attack Islam. They don't sue them for religious schools, prayer in schools or public places, or for open displays in the public square. But Christians, they are easy to attack, to bash, and insult. And let us not leave out the Hindus and others religions. They never get attacked by atheists. You never see a post, " Ten reasons why Islam is fake ! " or " 50 Contradictions and claims by Hindus.." They would be tracked and hacked and set upon by these groups, but not by Christians. Now, if any of you ATS atheists would like to prove my statement wrong, point me to the many threads the criticize Islam, Hindus, etc. and mock their religion and insult their intelligence and beliefs. See anyone poking fun at Muhammed ? yeah, right... Wanna give it a go ? I won't be responsible for the reaction of those groups. But, you never will. But then, there could be that one brave atheist out there that intends to prove me wrong in the fair and equal criticism of all religions alike. We'll see, but I think the OP has this one right.