athiests! why christianity?

Originally posted by the illuminator
I just have one question.
why do athiest's seem to always try and disproof christianity?

what about all the other religions?

why pick on the christians?

Because Buddhism never rose to being a popular or widely believed religion through violence.

The history of Christianity is one giant contradiction to it's own teachings and it's rich history of violence is the only reason it's "popular". It's funny though how Christians will be so quick to judge extremist Muslims on how they interpret their religious text to defend violent acts when Christianity did the same thing. Hell, Christians tried to wipe out the Muslims once upon a time!

But, the most honest answer that can be given... Christians are for the most part ignorant, arrogant, and uneducated. Hell, we can thank a lot of scientific advancements to Muslim scientists more so than we can to Christians who prosecuted people for certain discoveries!

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by faceoff85

 

That doesn't bother me, I think you should believe what you feel comfortable with...that is your right. Wether I agree with it or not, that is my right. I will keep that to myself...

Oddly enough, there are many ideas that I agree with on the Jehovah's Witness... but the exiling of families and family members that don't agree or believe in their institutions is not one of them...I find it quite hurtful actually.

I respect your opinion and thank you for respecting mine. But the reason I told you and all here is to be able to share opinions. I want to encourage you to not keep your opinion to yourself but share it. thats my reason for being here... My opinion is mostly formed but I still feel the need to keep an open mind and consider everything coming my way for the sake of gaining a better understanding together

As long as this happens in a respectfull way without bashing it can only be considered as upbuilding. Bythweay both my parents are exilied so I can relate to what you're saying but to understand the reasoning behind this would also create 'some' understanding as to why this is done

[edit on 8-5-2010 by faceoff85]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by faceoff85]

why does it bother you?, surely your religion can stand the attacks of us athiests? If Christianity is the TRUTH, then it doesn't matter what we say about Christianity does it?

Aggie here; no dog in the fight.

Speaking of truth, there is considerable variation in the truthfulness of atheist critiques of Christianity, and so "what matters" in practice may be as simple as whether it is possible to have a discussion.

Obviously, simple mistakes will occur on both sides. I was informed the other day that John is a synoptic gospel. Now, what should have happened next is "Oh, right...," we recall that John is a problematic gospel, and then we can get down to discussing the contents of John and how that contrasts with the other gospels, the actual synoptics.

But no... dude simply dug in. So the conversation stopped there. Ignorance is remediable, but willful and knowing refusal to amend any fact-claim defeats the point of exchanging views.

And the atheist "community" reaction to their brother's gaffe? Lol. Close ranks. One guy even congratulated the synoptic-John woo-pitcher on what a great job he was doing.

So, my mistake. It never was a discussion, just a gang fight. All the matters is what colors you're wearing. Sometimes, anyway.

reply to post by AlreadyGone

On top of that, Christians won't cut your head off or blow up your family if you deny or diminish Christ or Christianity.

That's a bold lie as I can find many news stories of extremist Christians in acts of terrorism.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by AlreadyGone

 

On top of that, Christians won't cut your head off or blow up your family if you deny or diminish Christ or Christianity.

That's a bold lie as I can find many news stories of extremist Christians in acts of terrorism.

But even though they call themselves christians, can they really be called true christians? as pointed out before it would be good to differentiate between christians and true christians. I think a better way to describe christian terrorists attacks would be to call them false flag attacks since the bible clearly states that christians shouldn't take up arms under any condition. unlike the Koran wich I believe does advocate acts of war on non-muslims.

Typically people bash the belief system that is around them. Try going to a muslim controlled country and writing a book bashing Islam (ouch!). If your are an author, the financial rewards are greater. You sell more books bashing Christianity than by bashing Hinduism, etc. Write a book with the premise that Krishna was a myth and then write a book with the premise that Jesus was a myth. Guess which book will sell more copies?

I surround myself in atheist company on occasion and from what I've been told,
A lot of Atheist were raised Christian and later in life when they felt or thought that this isn't gonna work. ( Science, Moral, Christians ) bashing Christians is just entertaining for some. Especially because they did study the bible while a lot of Christians just maybe listened to the reverent in churge .

reply to post by faceoff85

But even though they call themselves christians, can they really be called true christians? as pointed out before it would be good to differentiate between christians and true christians. I think a better way to describe christian terrorists attacks would be to call them false flag attacks since the bible clearly states that christians shouldn't take up arms under any condition. unlike the Koran wich I believe does advocate acts of war on non-muslims.

WTF is that supposed to be?

Christians who kill citing biblical reference as justification aren't true Christians.

Yet somehow, Muslims who cite Qur'an reference as justification are just doing what Muslims do?

Are you trying to be a bigot, or you just messing with me?

Not all Muslims are extremist terrorist and the Qur'an does not preach killing in the name of Allah any more than the bible can and has been referenced to kill in the name of God and is still used to this day to do such.

If you believe the Qur'an advocates war on non-muslims then read this site which list numerous verses in the bible that advocate killing non-believers.

www.evilbible.com...

Christians wonder why they picked on yet say the most ignorant bigoted garbage I've ever heard in my life.

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." (1 Timothy 4:10)

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. (2Timothy 1:12)

Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. (Romans 12:19)

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by faceoff85

 

WTF is that supposed to be?

Christians who kill citing biblical reference as justification aren't true Christians.

Yet somehow, Muslims who cite Qur'an reference as justification are just doing what Muslims do?

Are you trying to be a bigot, or you just messing with me?

Not all Muslims are extremist terrorist and the Qur'an does not preach killing in the name of Allah any more than the bible can and has been referenced to kill in the name of God and is still used to this day to do such.

If you believe the Qur'an advocates war on non-muslims then read this site which list numerous verses in the bible that advocate killing non-believers.

www.evilbible.com...

Christians wonder why they picked on yet say the most ignorant bigoted garbage I've ever heard in my life.

Uhmmm... yeah so.... what do you want? a fight? I never intended to step on any toes here but I apologize if I did... The site you mentioned did in fact have a lot of biblical references for killing someone in the name of god however....... all those sources are taken from the old testament wich represent the covenant made with the israeli nation back in the day. Jesus ended that covenant, and by that all those old rules. they are no longer up to date so to speak. if they were it would mean only true-born Israelietes would be accepted by god and thats no longer the case. we are no longer supossed to stone the evildoers to death. the same goes for the sabbath-day. its no longer required of us. bytheway sabbath was never intended to be on a sunday but on a saturday. the resting day on sunday is actually to honour the sun-god. or something along those lines. Jesus gave us a new set of rules to follow after his death. there is still a whole bunch of moral lessons to be learned from the old testament but the implemention of the qonsuquences have been given as a right only to god. and he will punish evildoers on his chosen time after humanity has screwed things up enough. that is the teaching of the bible.

Nobody can use the bible today as a justification for violence because the bible condemns violence... the new covenant Jesus made with ALL of humanity has as its greatest commandment to love your fellowman as you would yourself and to above all love god (note that to love means a whole lot more than to just say I love you) not kill anyone. if people condemn you, rejoice. if people hit you, turn the other cheek. I am sorry you felt the need to start namecalling. nothing constructive can be taken from that.

[edit on 8-5-2010 by faceoff85]

reply to post by the illuminator


no its not just the Christians, its any belief that is unfounded and cannot be backed up with logical, coherent hypothesis.

Its unfalsifiable, something that we, in our 3d realm can never prove or will never know and people play on that fact.

Its like you would question me if i said there is a spiritual monkey attached to your soul and body that is invisible, but he's watching you all your life and has a set of rules.

That's personally, why i am an atheist anyway, i'd appreciate other atheists opinions and gnostic and theists opinions on why they fundamentally believe what they beleive.

Peace out - love, light and knowledge

What an excellent question, Illuminator. I have never heard an atheist or agnostic question Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, B'Hai, or Gnostics. Only Christians and Muslims (who also recognize Christ). I think the Jews are behind it, myself. And I think it is iconoclasm.

This is an important term we should all know.

from Wikipedia
Iconoclasm[2] is the deliberate destruction within a culture of the culture's own religious icons and other symbols or monuments, usually for religious or political motives. It is a frequent component of major domestic political or religious changes. It is thus generally distinguished from the destruction by one culture of the images of another, for example by the Spanish in their American conquests.

DEFY ignorance. DEFY manipulation and exploitation.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


well, since you asked for it here goes. Why do I believe what the bible tells us.
You are right when you say believers dont really have anything physically touchable that you can show to prove a point. The strongest arguments (and they are nothing more than that) that I have to say the bible is truly inspired by our heavenly father are the numerous prophecys wich have come to pass. also the biblical history compared to current knowledge about history. I know there are people who have used the very same thing to debunk the bible but its also usable as proof to show the bible is accurate. there are numerous historical facts wich can be linked to biblical occurences. for example the find of egyptian artifacts in the red sea where supossedly moses guided the israelites. after moses split the sea the bible tells of an egyptian army who followed them trhough the seabed but before they reaches the end the sea collapsed on them. I find it proof of my faith that nowadays the have actually found remains of that army... I can go on quite a bit (I do realise with the carbon-dating tecnology many things have been debunked but I am a bit skeptical about that technique since opnions in scientific circles are divided)

Also the prophecy's about the end-times are quite accurate. there would be starvation, and alot of wars. now there have always been wars on this planet but its only quite recently that we started calling some of them WORLD-WARS. I can go on But I think you get my point. This is in a nutshell what I base my faith on.

I would still like to know wether the quran advocates war on non-believers or not. I know for a fact you cant generalize all muslims as extremists since I know quite a few muslims who are close friends of mine but I thought the quran does advocate that but I simply dont know enough to say for sure

[edit on 8-5-2010 by faceoff85]

reply to post by faceoff85


Thanks for your reply, I don't discredit the religion to at least provide a minimal ammount of historical evidence of how people spoke, how people lived their lives, places and races.

I don't discredit it's accuracy in that sense but the general ideaoligy of GOD, theres no founding for it other than control. You only have to look at the vatican to see the history of corruption that religion has caused.

By simple deduction of logic, one of the religions are spreading lies, and probably not on purpose, they truely believe that the rules and regulation and lifestyles set in their biblical texts are the true word of this cosmic creator. No one could know what he/she or it (God) wants from us, or if he wants anything.

We though, as humans have empathy, compassion and love and you only have to look around and at history to show that religion has caused war, corruption and hatred towards fellow human beings.

I'm not going to oppose an Agnostic's belief because to be honest, everyone should be Agnostic (including me), because simply: "we just don't know" but i am highly skeptical, and i don't think these "beliefs" or religions provide me with anything that would help me live my life any better.

Again, my personal opinions.

Peace


[edit on 8/5/10 by awake_and_aware]

Originally posted by the illuminator
I just have one question.
why do athiest's seem to always try and disproof christianity?

what about all the other religions?

why pick on the christians?

Because all the people that come to my door to tell me about their religion are Christians.

Because all the people that stop me when I am out shopping to hand me leaflets and talk to me about my eternal salvation are Christians.

Because all the crazy people that approach me in the city to scream hateful religious claptrap at me...are Christians.

OR....

You are a Christian so you have no noticed Atheists debunking other religions because there is really no point in arguing Islam with a Christian.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


Agreed, they shouldn't enforce their "beliefs" on us, because its not truth, its belief, blind belief. SOME religion are just happy to get on with their lives and believe what they believe without preaching or lecturing people on unfalsifiable subjects.

reply to post by faceoff85

Nobody can use the bible today as a justification for violence because the bible condemns violence

Sorry, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the first statement you made in which I replied to was made in error, which I pointed out. You then proceeded to sweep it under the rug so to speak by claiming those people are not 'real Christians' and then made another erroneous statement that the Qur'an calls for Muslims to be violent.

I'm not sure if your screwing around and being a bigot, or if your just uneducated in the Qur'an. With that said, the Qur'an teaches the value of life just as much as the bible teaches.

The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, (…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am 6: 151) and Allah says in the Qur’an, (Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)) (Al-Israa’ 17: 33). According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See Al-Ma’idah 5: 32) Read more: www.islamonline.net.../FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544502#ixzz0nLf7JTNF

Point of fact is, I'm trying to correct an error in your argument. You can't just claim one group of people are not true to their religion for using choice verses out of context and then claim another group for doing the same thing are just doing what their religion "teaches" when both religions equally teach the same message of 'thou shalt not murder'.

If you were unaware that Islam is a peaceful religion, then I'm sorry for calling you a bigot.

Case in point, both religion have adherents of them that use choice verses to justify acts of terrorism and killing. No amount of sweeping under the rug is going to change that. You should make it a point to study various religions before making claims against them. I'm not sure if your Christian or not, I don't remember you saying so outright, but if you are then your a perfect example for why Christians get picked on. In this case, making an uneducated and intolerant claim towards another religion that teaches the same message.

reply to post by sirnex


Then you have to ask yourself why are people killing in the name of Allah? and people have been known to kill in the name of "god" - wouldn't it be better if we all kept our "BELIEFS" to ourselves and just live our lives? Thats what we as Atheists and scientists want to do, promote ethics, morality and human compassion and science and reason.

Originally posted by the illuminator
I just have one question.
why do athiest's seem to always try and disproof christianity?

what about all the other religions?

why pick on the christians?

Because christians tend to come from more educated countries and thus less likely to be as heavily brainwashed by leaders of other religions. Some are so brainwashed they are willing to commit suicide. Christians are clearly not that brainwashed!

reply to post by malcr


lol