What will precious metals be worth if SHTF?

Love this discussion, I'm finally getting thru to a fellow prep type about this, I hope!=) This thread will help.

One doesn't barter because they have things they don't need (usually), in my opinion, but because they need or want something.

I wouldn't trade you a kilo of gold for an ounce of water or oil/fats in storage. NOPE. Or salt, or sugar...but yall probably know the list=)

Gold?
My money is on black gold, coffee. Whiskey (corn) we can distill eventually. Tobacco can be grown in the US. Coffee...South America...when it's gone...or almost gone, Gold. Even when it hits, ppl will trade for their luxuries (wants), but I believe it will be the smaller ones: the cup of coffee (thoughts of better times).
gb,
~prep

Just my opinion but......
seed's and clean water would be worth more than gold or silver.
i mean you can stockpile the gold and silver but you cannot turn it into water or food. who is going to care about silver,gold, or diamonds when your starving or dying of thirst?

It's really impossible to tell what the currency will be post-SHTF.

Currency is a natually-occurring phenomenon in a barter economy. If I make chairs, and you raise chickens, and I want a wagon but don't know anybody yet who makes them, I will want to have the most marketable goods available for the event when I finally meet a wagon-maker. If chickens are more marketable than chairs, I will want to trade for your chickens in the hopes that the future wagon-maker will need chickens. Over a long period of time this settles to a point where one particular commodity is the "most marketable" and is therefore the money. In ancient times, this turned out to be gold, thus gold became the money.

But there's no guarantee that will be the case post-SHTF. Gold does, however, have several properties that make it a good money (durability, identifiability, etc.), so it might be worth it to have some gold on hand. Just don't bet everything on it.

Money is a medium of exchange..not just gold and silver..or even copper for the smaller denominations.

Money is whatever is the most "swappable commodity."

Over time and history this has proved out to be precious metals.

The most valuable metal in this world is steel..not gold and silver or copper. Steel is not as scarce ...but it is definitely more useful than gold or silver in today's economy.

A comb might not be valuable to the bald man down front of a group of people..but if he figures out even in hard times that he can swap it off to someone else with two or three women in their group..for something he needs...then the comb becomes a medium of exchange. It is that simple.

That is how real monies works..not by government decree but by what people will accept for their goods and services.

When things break down....even ordinary people will begin to figure out on their own...what will work and what they will accept as a medium of exchange for their goods and services. This will, by process of elimination, become money. Leave the rocket scientists, economists, and politicians at home or put them out of work. You don't need geniuses here ..just people with good olde common sense. Something very lacking in governments in the last hundred years.

Orangetom

if shtf like i beleive it is being engineered then we will get a few days of riots and then the medai will go into full swing and tell you all your money is safe and has been converted to the amro that is 100% digital and count yourself lucky you get back 50 cents on the $

That's if we let them.

We need to get back to a curency that is fixed to the metal content of the coins and thats silver and anyone that thinks they should trust digits on a amro card more than fiat paper has lost the plot.

Don't trust the people that created the problom to fix it and tell them to keep the debt and taxes that go with the new system.

We must get away from fractual reserve banking and inflation with negative interest rates because we still need grouth to pay the interest and that grouth needs energy so if the goverment wanted to do anything about protecting the enviroment then that comes by hanging the bankers and not allowing them to send us a personal carbon tax bill along with our amro statements.

The economic system is going into meltdown with deficts that can never be repaid even during the good times or did you not notice we were not putting anything aside and riots are breaking out all over the place, all very predicatable, controlable and planned.

i'm not religious but i do know maths don't lie so don't be fooled by the DOW going up 100% if the price of bread goes up 150% or the $ goes up aganst the Euro so cars become cheaper but petrol has gone up 200% because you are still worse off even if you fail to admit it.

i don't care if you don't agree with me that any of this could happen because you forgot about the romans, 1931, Russia 1980's, Greece today so long as you stand with me and wlll not be scared into excepting the amro because a few banks are burned along with goverment buildings.

That TV in the lounge is having more and more media blackouts and has become like alise in wonderland so come the day, even in fear don't listen to the TV but talk to others around you and hope the army steps in and seizes the BBC studio and hands the airwaves back to educated people so we can sort this mess out.

You owe it to your kids not to fall under the powers of the UN/EU/IMF/NWO because if they are allowed to win this time then it's game over and everyone will be wearing the mark of the beast making the amro card useless and step out of line then no need to send you to jail, just turn the RFID off and you have a instant ban at every shop in the world and can not enter public buildings.

Science fiction you might think well so was bar-codes on food in the 1950's and so was average speed fines three years ago and now they are going to track your cars speed from space and yet databases and dog tag implants have both been around for ages and you tell me the last time technoligy like this was not used against the sheeple. This is our turn to meet the real terrorists out in the open fields so don't screw it up.

i am blessed. I have land, water and chickens and the means to protect them. I, too, recommend seeds, seeds, seeds. (heirloom only, try rareseeds.com for the hopi corn and several ancient bean and grain varieties.) Think ornamental and edible, its less obvious. (like llove lies bleeding, which is an amaranth.)
Also, depending on your prep scenario don't forget many metals absorb radiation.
Just my 7am thoughts,
gm all
~prep

reply to post by orangetom1999


"The most valuable metal in this world is steel..not gold and silver or copper. Steel is not as scarce ...but it is definitely more useful than gold or silver in today's economy."

i agree in the form of a garden spade, gun or something but not in the form of a car without petrol or me getting paid with 100kg of steel each day and for this reason silver/gold has always been used as money.

Not coming from the states i don't know but i have been told that some shops show the exchange rate they offer for silver and you can pay the bill in silver.

You can bet these shops are offering a real crap exchange rate just now, if they do exist but if it ever comes down to 2% then that would be about the same cost as some people are paying at ATM to gain access to there own money.

Steel during times of war or exspantion along with copper on a national level is even more important than gold in that respect but during a major war gold is needed because no one is going to except payment in a currency that could be wiped out.

Silver on the other hand is the best of both worlds because it's used for it's monitary value and is also an industrial metal and is increasingly being used in hospitals, so i'm told and if you add to that people are living longer and all these super bugs then i think the future is bright even if they get it for free as they are mining for other metals it is still a store of energy, like all metals because if oil goes up the extraction costs go up.

I would dig a hole and fill it with food or oil but the food rots and they won't let me do that with oil and this also stops me being mobile and since money is eaten by the rats of inflation so the only thing i can think off that will help if shtf is silver or gold and whilst a admit both could drop 50% if we somehow manage to pull out this depression and smart money wants more exposure to risk but sooner or later this exspansion, if real will require raw metals allowing me to exit if i wanted to but any exspansion is still going to based on debt so as i see it we are not talking about if our economy will crash but simply a question of when so it comes down to three options.

1. The Amro 100% digital, RFID's and personal carbon taxes.
2. People fight back and demand real money, cancel debt, taxes
3. Mad -Max

Option one still means i'm OK because some forum of cash will always be needed to pay the guy fixing my car at weekends, is still better that getting 50cents on the $ when converted to the amro and i can always sell the metal back in to the system.

Option Two makes me rich, stinking rich

Option Three say i should had brought guns, beans and ammo.

Feel free to pull my logic apart, it would do me good.

preparanoid

The chickens will have to go first because energy put in is less than the energy that comes out and is a luxuary and without drugs, infections from chickens will kill you.

Don't know about the land you got but here in the UK they have been using ferterlizers in such large aounts that the soil will no longer grow a thing without these oil based chemicals.

All the herbasides have created super weeds so without these chemicals even if you got much to grow then the weeds and bugs would get them.

You will need a lot of friends to protect the land if i'm hungry and these freinds need feeding and will also need guns.

I keep on saying that people like alex jones are using all your fears to sell gold. He has those people on all the time selling gold, and silver, lol.

Do you think he has an invested interest in this lol.

Go and listen what william cooper said about jones, and he is right, jones is playing you lot, and you do get hooked in.

I wonder how much jones has made selling gold on his show, lol.

If anything did happen, not saying it will, the ptb are smart enough to make sure they would have a plan for gold.

andy1033

I'm no real fan of alex jones with his mega-horn and half the stuff he says in stateing the bleeding obvious for instance

Oil is a finite resource
Fractaul reserver banking (even without coruption) is doomed
Popultaion Grouth
Aging nation
CCTV's growing faster than weeds

But how do you get to the bit that he just want to sell us the gold/silver he's got hanging around because he would had ran out years ago even if he was mega rich.

No alex is trying to sell his vids and makes a profit whist telling us in most cases what we already know so i don't see much wrong with that.

Maybe you would like to explain to us doomsters where we have got it all wrong or is it just someones mad theory that say antibiotics have created super bugs because they want us to eat more organic food.

I belive precious metals will be useful in the most likely event of nation wide or even local use of the military to enforce curfues/travel.
A coin slipped in with identification could make the difference of passing a blockade.

Yea, I'm saying that corruption should be used as a survival tool.

Originally posted by LieBuster
preparanoid

The chickens will have to go first because energy put in is less than the energy that comes out and is a luxuary and without drugs, infections from chickens will kill you.

Don't know about the land you got but here in the UK they have been using ferterlizers in such large aounts that the soil will no longer grow a thing without these oil based chemicals.

All the herbasides have created super weeds so without these chemicals even if you got much to grow then the weeds and bugs would get them.

You will need a lot of friends to protect the land if i'm hungry and these freinds need feeding and will also need guns.

Hey,
Thanks for the thoughts and response. My chickens are about 70% free range now, 30% supplemental feed. No weird antibiotics or hormones. They are a dual source of protein (meat and egg) and do require some care. But less than some folks might think if what they picture is a commercial setup. Small home fowl raising is so much easier. I'd say I spend 30 minutes a day taking care of my chickens, ducks, turken, and that includes the time I collect the eggs. =)
My garden is compost fertilized (natural gunk) and has been for my lifetime. (It was my Grampa's before mine.) But those are very good things for anyone thinking in farming and growing terms to be aware of. I'm glad you mentioned them.
I do have family and decent folks nearby. Many of whom are much better set up than I am myself and I'm grateful for that, too. You are also right about a loose community needing feeding and protection. It is something I try to take into account as I plan. (Even though any plans are just guesses, really, cause noone truly know what will happen. Still, the more you can try to plan for, the more options you will have.)
I feel for folks in the countries where gun control is so strict. It would make trying to prepare so much harder, at least to me. Most everyone here has at least a shotgun for animals attacking our animals, etc. Most folks more than one.
Thanks again for your points and bringing those things up for folks to consider. If ya ever want to talk about chickens, just U2U me, I could go on forever about easy, cheap virtually self-supporting bird raising.=)
~prep

forgot one thing gold and copper are very maluable. With heat from a camp fire they can be beaten into weapons or tools to do farming or hunting easily compared to iron or steal. So they do have some use.

reply to post by NexGenRevolution


The hardest part about answering this question is how much is gold or silver going to worth when when what we consider to have value has none? When SHTF our paper money alone with our precious metals will only have value to those who think they have value, but if you think about it deeply enough that's exactly how things work now. Our currency only has value because we think it does.

You should have as much of your essential preps in order before you start buying any significant amount of precious metals. Food, water, etc....

That being said, gold has had value since civilization began.

It's value post shtf will be as a convenient means of trade. It's easier to carry a few gold or silver coins in your pocket than a chicken or goat.

Lets say I'm running low on flour. I find a farmer and ask to trade for some wheat to grind into flour. I have plenty of other food to trade but the farmer doesn't need food. He has a farm after all. What he really needs is a new blade for his plow.

He knows a guy that owned a tractor dealer pre shtf and knows he has some blades locked in a warehouse somewhere. He also know that this guy has been on the lookout for a bottle of antibiotics because his son has been sick.

The doctor in town is sure to have some antibiotics, but needs some ammo. He never kept too much but after tshtf, defending his medicine supply has almost depleted what he has.

There will always be something that someone has that someone else needs.

...... Now I can go find some ammo for the doctor (and hope I have what the ammo guy needs), to get the antibiotics for the salesman, so I can get a blade for the plow and can get some wheat, or I can offer the farmer a few silver or gold coins so he can go buy a plow blade from the salesman and be on my way. The salesman can now go to the doctor ....

I know, not a perfect scenario to explain it but you get the idea.


People can all go around carrying supplies here and there and playing scavenger hunt to find stuff to barter with, or people can use a commonly recognized commodity with perceived value to use as a form of money.

People will always perceive precious metals as having some value. As a commonly recognized item with a certain perceived value placed on it by society it will make trade much easier and convenient.

That will be the value of precious metals post shtf. Convenience. Even in the worst disaster, we aren't going to go back to the stone age. Society will rebuild. An easy and convenient way to trade will help that to happen.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Primordial]

[edit on 26-5-2010 by Primordial]

So when the SHTF.. it might be worth knowing that old telephone tech, PBX exhanges, older comps etc, will give you the best return for precious metals once melted down..

A high enough temperature turns the plastics into a heat source for the smelting process..

Quite a number of businesses are turning to smelting down older electrical goods to reclaim the gold etc they contain..

Hope this little bit of useless info helps someone one day

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Ya know,
My neighbors burn wire to get the copper from it all the time and somehow I had missed this as a way to scavenge. Thanks for that reminder!
~prep

if the SHTF as in my definition, metal wont be worth much.. what will hold value is water food and tools to get those two items.. like gardening tools guns and ammo for hunting etc..

Now if its just a dollar collapse.. sure metals will hold value...

but remember if it gets really bad.. you cant eat gold and silver..

All depends on your definition of the SHTF.

reply to post by NexGenRevolution


The things that will become most valuable are the things which every person or family can use..

So all those ruby's and pearls and gems are not going to get you # because they just look good and don't serve a real useful purpose.

Unless of course you can use them in technology......which if SHTF, will be limited.


Metals that make great weapons will become of high value...

Any metals that help build strong buildings will be valuable..


Think, food, shelter, survivability.........What do we tend to gravitate to in that situation?

What metals would make sense then ?

I still think Gold has far more uses than we have even come up with, so I would stay stocked on that,

What becomes more valuable ? a gold coin which gets you nothing, or some copper wiring that you can make glasses (Frames ) with post WW3 or whatever SHTF is....?

[edit on 6-6-2010 by LucidDreamer85]

reply to post by NexGenRevolution


I think..if you gt out the periodic table, and researched mallible metals, with the lowest melting point.....you could not loose...

Any metal that can be melted and used to pour a bullet to feed ones family with be worth 10 fold its weight in gold....

Peuter...good
lead ...good
silver...good
gold..good ..but expensive...."hate to get shot by a golden bullet"

If TSHTF it will no longer be monitary value, but the metals worth, as being easily used...for things other than monitary gain...
Like feeding your ppl....but I'm sure there is going to be the higher aristocrats that sit by and let their families starve...just to sit on some gold...instead of pouring bullet molds full of it....

ETA:::: copper is ok...but the heat needed to melt it is very high...and if you reach it...you will be subject to many toxins and have 3 armed kids and...nvrmnd....yes it can be beat into something...but I'd rather make flint knives...than die of berillium poisening...or arsenic...both are after affects of heating copper.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Doc Holiday]