Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero

Originally posted by and14263
reply to post by prionace glauca

 

Why do we have to rely on these families to provide our morals?

I'm saying the idea that they are insulted by a Muslim place of worship means there's a huge source of mis-education, I can only find the MSM as this source.

I'm also not saying my morals are the definitive morals, I'm saying allow freedom where it's due.

A Mosque is not a symbol of terrorism. If it serves as a reminder of terrorism then we are in a sad world dominated by MSM pressures.

We cannot let these families decide our morals, instead we must use common-sense.

The problem is that it will be a reminder of terrorism.
The families cannot decide your morals but they're the ones who are still living with this and they do not need to be reminded of their losses like this. Salt here's the wound...burn away. Please don't take this as me flaming you, I'm not. You have been very civil and I appreciate it.

Originally posted by antonia


if you want to fight over this it is because you are ignorant.

No I don't care about their Mosque. But everyone else WILL.

And you KNOW that.

So I say You want to see the fight get provoked. You are defending the provocations.

You are promoting them for basically creating this untimely confrontation.

I think you know what you are doing. That is why I am attacking your stance.

Originally posted by MagicaRose
reply to post by Foppezao

 

Last night my husband raised a good question. He ask me where is the money coming from for this? He said probably our tax money.

I surely dont hope so, most of the times these churches and mosques are paid by the religious community. But remember Islam is much more then religion, its an institution, way of life, with a strong [totalitarian] political aspect..
We also had some troubles with a mosque in the centre of Amsterdam[Westermosque], residents opposed it, local [socialist] government actually supported it and eventually the participating parties had too many difficulties to proceed the building.
One of the organisation leaders actually wanted to use Al-Jazeera to call on all Turkish people in europe for a "non-violent" revolt if the government tried to block the construction....yes peace and prosperity with these folks



[edit on 7-5-2010 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So I say You want to see the fight get provoked. You are defending the provocations.

I think you know what you are doing. That is why I am attacking your stance.

You think I am some NWO cabal member or something? I used "you" in the sense of "if you happen to feel this is wrong and want to go pick up a torch and burn something", not you personally.

If people are going to fight it is because they are ignorant. They will get no sympathy from me. If that's how one who choose to react they deserve to go behind bars. It's not a provocation. Read the article, it's an Islamic group building a community center on their property. That's their right and they don't need the permission of the people around them. Did you read the article? I don't think it's a bad thing. It's a YMCA in truth. Nor do I think these people shouldn't build it because a bunch of idiots in the U.S. can't tell the difference between Terrorists and the Muslims they live with everyday.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by antonia]

Originally posted by worldwatcher
Do you guys ever read the article linked??? Read who came up with the idea, how they plan to use the facility and how they will fund it before spewing your irrational fears?

I agree to disagree with all of you who fear Muslims, Islam and Americans who don't look, sound or do what you do. Learn to be tolerant, your god would want it that way too.

So basically you are willfully ignoring the fact that tons of people are gonna get upset?

So you agree that you want to see this confrontation happen? You want to watch things get real ugly?

Do you not know where the lines have been drawn?

I think in your defense of this mosque, you are purposely ignoring the reality that is coalescing around it.

This will cause crazy people to get real crazy, it's all too obvious.

This is not a debate of philosophy, or right vs wrong. This is a debate of impending conflict. And should we push this conflict on everyone, or should we say "Hey wait a minute, this ain't such a great idea after all".

reply to post by Wondering302


I think, unless it is you're property, there should be no institutional buildings of any religious kind. In other words, tear down the churches and mosques and have bible study or quran study in the you're home.

As i touched on earlier... I don’t remember anyone making connections between the Catholic Church and the IRA... No one ever branded IRA terrorists as Catholic Terrorists or Christian Fundamentalists... they were simply the IRA...

yet with Al Qaeda, and other terrorist organisations who have an Islamic background, it is "Muslim Terrorists" and "Islamic fundamentalists"

Hypocrisy at its finest...

Originally posted by antonia

You think I am some NWO cabal member or something? I used "you" in the sense of "if you happen to feel this is wrong and want to go pick up a torch and burn something", not you personally.

If people are going to fight it is because they are ignorant.

I think you are a normal person typing on your computer Always have since the first post of yours I read a long time ago.

I am only saying this will create more conflict and anger. And by you saying "Thats their bad" well no it's not.

It's becoming all of our bad. Because you and I will get caught in the cross fire.

I am just saying "Hey this ain't such a great idea", because we will be caught in the middle of it.

I would seek to de-escalate this situation.

Your point of view is pushing to escalate it.

Just move the mosque down a few blocks. It's so simple of a way to avoid the conflict...

The fact everyone is so adamant to keep it right there, shows me people WANT to see this conflict erupt into violence.

I am just speaking out to avoid the impending conflict (which is just an extension of the already occurring conflict that has gone on for many many years).

[edit on 7-5-2010 by muzzleflash]

Originally posted by Muckster
As i touched on earlier... I don’t remember anyone making connections between the Catholic Church and the IRA... No one ever branded IRA terrorists as Catholic Terrorists or Christian Fundamentalists... they were simply the IRA...

yet with Al Qaeda, and other terrorist organisations who have an Islamic background, it is "Muslim Terrorists" and "Islamic fundamentalists"

Hypocrisy at its finest...

Last I checked the IRA vs Brit issue was very heavily religious.

Catholic vs Protestant.

So were the Inquisitions. Catholic vs Protestant.

They were very heavily religious extremism issues.

Steve Bruce, sociology professor at the University of Aberdeen, wrote:
The Northern Ireland conflict is a religious conflict. Economic and social considerations are also crucial, but it was the fact that the competing populations in Ireland adhered and still adhere to competing religious traditions which has given the conflict its enduring and intractable quality(9)

en.wikipedia.org...
9.Steve Bruce (1986). God Save Ulster. Oxford University Press. p. 249. ISBN 0192852175.

Reviewing the book, David Harkness of the The English Historical Review agreed "Of course the Northern Ireland conflict is at heart religious"

[edit on 7-5-2010 by muzzleflash]

Originally posted by Wondering302
If they're going to build a Mosque in NY then fine but why so close to ground zero??

You can thank the banks for that. It's about money, no matter what religion you are. Where can you afford to build to meet your congregations needs.

Would you feel more happy if it just wasn't in NYC? Would that make you feel more patriotic and like 9/11 was avenged? That a religion that had nothing to do with it except on paper move their congregation away from you?

This mentality of ignorance is growing too fast to even attempt to have highly civil discussions anymore.

Go complain about all the Jewish synagogues nearby ground zero, since the Israelis are more of a threat to our American way of life than a bunch of muslims.

Grow up war mongers.

Originally posted by Muckster
As i touched on earlier... I don’t remember anyone making connections between the Catholic Church and the IRA... No one ever branded IRA terrorists as Catholic Terrorists or Christian Fundamentalists... they were simply the IRA...

yet with Al Qaeda, and other terrorist organisations who have an Islamic background, it is "Muslim Terrorists" and "Islamic fundamentalists"

Hypocrisy at its finest...

Yeah Catholics are scumbags too , we fought 80 years to get rid of those Spanish a-holes...you happy now?

Yes but al queda uses extreme wahabbist (I think thats how you spell that) islam to brainwash and indoctrinate there "Freedom Fighters" not to be confused with the Taliban and there group of religeous wackos. The IRA never declared a Catholic/Christian holy war either. Generally I dont think the religeon has much to do with alot of conflicts for example the Iran hostage situation no one back then made it out to be those crazy muslims arre at it again instead they were just terrorists and kidnappers. But today the religeon aspect is big because that is how they recruit indoctrinate and maintain power it gives justification to them to kill in the name of a bent, warped, extreme version of a good religeon they declared a Jihad not us. And if they want to build a mosque near ground zero well in my opinion if the good people of NYC have no bones about then go for it who cares the Muslims got mosques in Jeruselam and those guys are killing each other all the time so a peace harboring city like NYC I cant see how it is a problem anyway

Originally posted by muzzleflash


The fact everyone is so adamant to keep it right there, shows me people WANT to see this conflict erupt into violence.

I am just speaking out to avoid the impending conflict (which is just an extension of the already occurring conflict that has gone on for many many years).

What are you talking about "everyone is so adamant"? Who is this everyone? it seems most people don't want them build anything at all. It's a one group. It's their property. Who in the hell are we to tell people what to do with their property?

As for an impending conflict, sorry, I'm not getting caught up in this. The only people that will are those who are stupid enough to get upset about Muslims in the U.S. exercising their rights. If people leave them alone there will be no fight. And guess what? Most people are not what you proclaim. They are not going to march over there and mess with them. They know better.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
I swear the things people choose to make as news and get riled up about just shows how deep the underlying racism and hatred unto others of other faiths and cultures is in this country.

Strong words!

Well, first.. just because they're americans, citizens of a developed country, don't necessarily mean that they're not carnal humans.

Abrahamic religions unlike eastern religions are much more than just pure spiritual entities. A lot of times they actually behave more tribal than spiritual. It means sometimes they get territorial. It's inevitable, it's human nature.

My personal opinion on this, this isn't a time to build a mosque near the ground zero.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
My personal opinion on this, this isn't a time to build a mosque near the ground zero.

It's been 9 years. Get over it.

Are you going to allow government created domestic terrorism (that fails) every other year influence how you live your life?

reply to post by muzzleflash


No it will not, some people with irrational fear and personal prejudices will feel against it and other more tolerant people are not going to care whether it's a islamic mosque or jewish temple. Read the article there is support and opposition from the one group that it matter to the most, the victims of 911, even among them there is no consensus.

This generalization and using a wide paint brush to paint things is irrational and the problem. We are a diverse nation with diverse people and you will never get all of us to agree or feel the same way about any issue.

People still crying over 9/11? thats laughable, especially since your own people did the terrorist acts on yourself.

Come on 3000 people died? thats rather soft and nothing to cry over.

However 200 million Native Indians killed and enslaved by American terroists,
about 200 million Latinos killed and enslaved by American terrorists,
about 200 million so called Negros enslaved and killed all in 400 years is a big deal,

A Mosque going up is a bad reminder of what your own leaders did to you?
How do you think a Native,Latino and Negro feels when Thanksgiving day comes (celebration of the death and conquering of natives), Columbus day(celebration of a white devil who came to slaughter Natives), matter of fact just about all American holidays are a celebration of how white people slaughtered killed other people.

America has been terrorizing the world from the start, now crying over 9/11 like America is innocent? weak.

Just goes to show how stupid the peon class of Americans are under their leaders.

Originally posted by End Of Babylon

However 200 million Native Indians killed and enslaved by American terroists,
about 200 million Latinos killed and enslaved by American terrorists,
about 200 million so called Negros enslaved and killed all in 400 years is a big deal,

Wow straight up lies.

Native Indians were largely in part, killed by Spanish conquistadors.

Learn some history.

Everything you said was agenda-driven lies. Lies I say!

Oh it's a racial agenda too.

American = White eh?

[edit on 7-5-2010 by muzzleflash]

reply to post by muzzleflash


You seem to be confusing 'Nazi' with 'German'. No wonder your reasoning is addled.

Originally posted by End Of Babylon
People still crying over 9/11? thats laughable, especially since your own people did the terrorist acts on yourself.

Come on 3000 people died? thats rather soft and nothing to cry over.

Its people like you and who think like you who should be not allowed produce spawn.

A life whose unique soul was taken away in that tragedy. These individuals were working to feed their families. You take this tragedy and are laughing about it. Something is seriously wrong with you.