Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero

Originally posted by YourPopRock

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by YourPopRock

 

What an idiotic, racist, and ignorant statement.

There are plenty of Islamic countries that are very civilized. And only certain portions of certain countries have camels.
Pick up a geography just once.

Actually it isn't, calling christians nazis was.

*laughs* What a cute and quaint attempt at deflection.

The nazis also acted against the christians,

So? They acted against everybody who didn't fit the perfect model. Which is exactly my point. The base of which is that it really has nothing to do with religion. Muslims died in the towers too.

but that doesn't seem to fit into your view. The kkk hates catholics who are christians.

That does't even make sense.

When green eyed, red haired and freckled people start attacking America, I will probably advocate going after the Irish. Till then, I say go after the people who do the things!

At least you readily admit that you like to blanket and stereotype entire groups of people just because a handful of them does something you don't approve of. Because any further knowledge of that would require just that, knowledge. And it wouldn't make it so easy for you. The world has, and never will, fit into neat little packages.

And to further show your ignorace, the US holds the largest population of redheads, Scotland next, and then Ireland second. And redheads can still be found throughout the world, even in Greece.

reply to post by Wondering302



If I was a Moslem I would expect every right to put a mosque wherever I wish in Manhattan. I would however forbid fundamentalists from entry and but a big sign up in Arabic saying that this is a place for peace and reconciliation.

I would put an American flag up someplace visible.

I would do all of this because it is the best way to signal that the brand of Islam practiced there would be one of peace and very American.

The presence of the mosque is inevitable given the location (Manhattan). But and this is a big "But" the context is extremely important and the situation must be handled delicately.


[edit on 8-5-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by Wondering302


I won't read one sentence of this thread, but I will reply.

What do Muslims have to do with 911, please?

reply to post by Wondering302



Actually the lack of care and support given to First Responders and survivors hurts but what hurts the most is all the dirty scumbags that knowingly or unknowingly
Act as buffers between justice and the people who really planned and executed this.

You have had almost 9 years to figure out that something stinks about 9/11 and all I see is a bunch of idiots who wave the Flag, hate Arabs and claim to know what they are talking about.

If you hate the Arabs that much, be a man and go fight them in the desert.

Please don’t speak for us, you don’t have a clue and you never will.


[edit on 5/8/2010 by samhouston1886]

i see no problem in a mosque going up near ground zero, then again, the only reason i would be annoyed is the screaming alarm every morning, this isn't a spit in the face to the families, who knows what happened on 911, i don't know, thats for sure, but it didnt make sense, but any result from that question should not stop a mosque being built, it was an attack on america by a small group of people (officially, not that i agree), who were muslims, a mosque is for all the people of islam, should they all be tarred with the same brush? i don't need to anwer that.

Originally posted by Good Intentions
reply to post by 23refugee

 

And nobody is trying to rule you with their faith, that is just a misunderstanding you have that a few extremist represent the rest of the population.

It's a shame we can't ask any gay men from predominately muslim countries about this misunderstanding, seeing how they're all dead or in hiding.
Answering the knock of a person who may geniunely care about my immortal soul just isn't as frightening as few extremists dragging me out to be hung in the town square in front of the rest of the population.

reply to post by 23refugee


Oh, I forgot that me and the rest of the Muslim population witness those events daily. We all head to Saudi Arabia, every single one of us, and watch. (Serious sarcasm)

Are you seriously saying that Muslims are the only religions with some people against homosexuality?

You have to understand that culture in the mid-east, and Islam as a whole, are different. Also, you cannot label all Muslims like that, because 1-5% are extreme. That is a select few cultures in a few countries that do that, that is not Muslim as a whole.

Do you honestly believe it is that severe everywhere else in the world? Even here in America? Please show me a group of Muslims in America watching somebody being punished for something so stupid.

I'd rather give a group of people the benefit of the doubt that they are not like the extremists out there, then live my life in fear that every single Muslim in this world wants to kill me if I don't follow their faith.

Which to make a point, nobody is forcing you to go to these mid-eastern countries, and convert to Islam. Therefore you do not need to even worry about leaving the religion in the first place.

Edit to Add: You quoted me about saying "that a few extremist represent the rest of the population" was a misunderstanding. You seem to disagree. So since all Muslims are extremist as you say, why then do we even have a seperate category for Muslim extremists? Letme answer that for you, because Muslim extremists, and Muslims, are different. Hence the word, "extremist", which can apply to any religion.


[edit on 8-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

reply to post by 23refugee


Also, fine, whatever, you don't see the disrespect in going door to door and telling people they are sinning if they don't choose their ever so great faith. Your fine with Christians, Catholics, and Jews doing this. Are you fine with Muslim's doing this also? Or is that now trying to rule you with faith. What is the difference between Muslims who genuinely care about your immortal soul, and Christians, Catholics, and Jews who care about your soul? Before you say, "well look at the exremists", the extremists are a different story, and do not represent the whole religion. I could say the same about any other religion.

Originally posted by Good Intentions
reply to post by 23refugee

 

Are you seriously saying that Muslims are the only religions with some people against homosexuality?

Are you seriously equating Christianity's current disapproval with public execution?
There sure was quite an outcry in the Christian world when an African contry tried to establish the death penalty for homosexuality.
Didn't hear a thing in any media from your average American Muslim about rescuing gays from those "few" countries and that "1-5 percent" of extremists. Only the gays spoke up. That is the very definition of standing by watching.
Your solution seems to be for me to stay in the Western world and avoid those extremists views.
No problem with that.
But somehow, I'm sure I'll be considered the bigot if I speak out about those views gaining a foothold here.

edit to add; By no means do I think every Muslim has an extremist view. They're just as nice as to my face as anyone else who disapproves of me. I'm not that bothered by preaching, doesn't matter who's doing it. But to deny any correlation between Islam and the death penalty for homosexuality in many Muslim countries is disingenuous.

[edit on 8-5-2010 by 23refugee]

Originally posted by YourPopRock
When green eyed, red haired and freckled people start attacking America, I will probably advocate going after the Irish. Till then, I say go after the people who do the things!

Pro tip: Try getting along with other countries instead of attacking them. You can armchair battle people over the internet all your life, but its kind of silly. Better to live a life in peace with others.

Muslims didnt attack America. I cant believe people are buying that stuff still. Do people still believe Oswald killed Kennedy today?

Maybe they do...


[edit on 8-5-2010 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by 23refugee

Originally posted by Good Intentions
reply to post by 23refugee

 

Are you seriously saying that Muslims are the only religions with some people against homosexuality?

Are you seriously equating Christianity's current disapproval with public execution?
There sure was quite an outcry in the Christian world when an African contry tried to establish the death penalty for homosexuality.
Didn't hear a thing in any media from your average American Muslim about rescuing gays from those "few" countries and that "1-5 percent" of extremists. Only the gays spoke up. That is the very definition of standing by watching.
Your solution seems to be for me to stay in the Eastern world and avoid those extremists views.
No problem with that.
But somehow, I'm sure I'll be considered the bigot if I speak out about those views gaining a foothold here.

edit to add; By no means do I think every Muslim has an extremist view. They're just as nice as to my face as anyone else who disapproves of me. I'm not that bothered by preaching, doesn't matter who's doing it. But to deny any correlation between Islam and the death penalty for homosexuality in many Muslim countries is disingenuous.

[edit on 8-5-2010 by 23refugee]

I was saying that Muslim's are not the only religion who have some against homosexuality, Christianity being an example.

"Are you seriously equating Christianity's current disapproval with public execution?" No, I am equating Christianity's current dissaproval with the Muslim's current dissproval, on the grounds that both images are effected by a few extremists.

Also, maybe you didn't here anything in the media, because the media isn't exactly unbiased. But let's say it was, just because someone doesn't make it on T.V. to speak their thoughts, doesn't mean they don't have those thoughts. Where were you on the media, I didn't see you their outcrying against it, therefore you are standing by watching.

I didn't say to avoid the western world, I said nobody is forcing you to move there, convert to Islam, in order for you to have to convert back to whatever, recieving their harsh penalties. If you decided to convert to Islam here in the United States, nobody would have a problem if you changed your mind and converted back to Christianity. You would not be excucuted, as you would in some cultures.

"But to deny any correlation between Islam and the death penalty for homosexuality in many Muslim countries is disingenuous." Who's denying correlation? Yes there is correlation between Islam and death penalty for homosexuality. There is also correlation between Churches and Pope's raping little boys. However correlation does not prove causation. It is not the religion that did it, it is the invidividuals, or particular culture.

Why are you changing this to a debate on homosexuality anway? There are way too many examples on both sides to list them. If I could sit here and think I could probly find over 100 correlations between religions and certain events. However, the correlation we are discussing, is Islam, and terrorist attacks.

Listen, I do not think it's okay for anybody to execute someone because they choose to live their life a certain way. I am just saying that you cannot blame a whole religion, for what a certain culture does. How would you like to be accused of being a rapist, because a pope raped a little boy?

Edit: Many typos, and clarification

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Good Intentions]

Originally posted by plasterace
Well America you want to impose your liberties and way of life on the rest of the world, well what does it matter that they set up a mosque.

Really?... I guess we have been at war with the whole world and I didn't know it....

There are people so ignorant in this world...and the worst part is that they won't even try to acquire some knowledge before they make some silly comments...

First of all, in case you didn't know, in the U.S. we have military personnel from ALL OVER THE WORLD, and including from the ME training with, or in our American bases...but NOONE is saying... "SEE, THEY HAVE INVADED THE U.S.!!!!"....

The U.S. has bases around the world WITH THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THOSE NATIONS....

Second of all, ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS were behind 9/11, and for some moderates to want to build a mosque at ground zero to me points to the fact that those "moderate Muslims who want to build a mosque in ground zero" are in fact extremists and not moderate...

I think we better go to Iraq and build some Christian, and or Catholic schools there and see what happens.....

Originally posted by plasterace
Unless there name is Osama what does it matter. Freedom of speech freedom of religion (By no way do i ever condem what freedom fighters did in your country that was murder but like i see so much on the news and sites like this you want to defend your rites then at the same time you crack the *Snip* over this) where is the difference

There is a difference between freedom of speech, and expression, and btw freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to use that freedom to incite violence in the U.S., and many Muslim extremists have done, and keep doing so...

Meanwhile the U.S. government is going after real Americans who want the government to just defend and uphold the U.S. Constitution we have Islamic extremist groups undergoing militarilytraining, and including training in explosives for their jihad against the U.S....

Now this?....

Let's start building Christian, and Catholic schools in the Middle East and see how well they like it over there....



[edit on 8-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Oh Dear. Of course there was never any chance of an intelligent debate on the pros and cons given the fundamentalist type minset seen here.

Denying ignorance is completely incompatible with fundamentalism.

Here is a thought experiment. If modern Xtians are not responsible for American slavery (whole or in part) or white Americans Then how on earth can one mosque be responsible for the twin towers. Where is the consistency???

Both the Koran and the bible that have both been misused by Fundies.

No I am not looking for reparations but the logic of the Islamophobes is flawed as is all blanket stereotyping.



[edit on 8-5-2010 by Tiger5]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Tiger5]

[edit on 8-5-2010 by Tiger5]

I still vote we hijack one of their camels and fly it into the mosque!

That being said, honestly let them build it. The best way we can say "up yours" to those muslim fundies who want to terrorize us is to meet their actions with apathy. Hard to build a mosque near ground zero for shock value if Americans don't really give a crap.

"Ha! We will build our mosque right next to your Ground Zero! What do you think of that???"

"So?"

"Um... we will build it! We really will!"

"M'hmm... and?"

"And it will be a mosque! Near your ground zero!"

"Seriously mohammad, are you still talking?"

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Already been done. Google churches in Iraq, and then middle-east while your at it. Also, if you go a couple pages back in this thread, there are examples presented for you.

reply to post by AndersonLee

For you to say that shows an appalling lack of NYC geography. 2 blocks is nothing to a New Yorker, We walk several blocks to and from buses, subways, etc.
Get a grip on the reality and lose the fantasy of " if we weren't so bad" ad nauseum. We Americans do not owe the world an apology for being the best, the rest of the planet should apologize to US for talking us into electing Obama.

Originally posted by LAUGHING-CAT
reply to post by AndersonLee

 

For you to say that shows an appalling lack of NYC geography. 2 blocks is nothing to a New Yorker, We walk several blocks to and from buses, subways, etc.
Get a grip on the reality and lose the fantasy of " if we weren't so bad" ad nauseum. We Americans do not owe the world an apology for being the best, the rest of the planet should apologize to US for talking us into electing Obama.

Hahaha!! While I do not agree we are the best, and think it is arrogant to say that anyone is better, I love that last sentance. That was a good ending line haha.

Originally posted by RizeorDie
..............
but that doesnt matter because 911 was done by the government and not muslims. so muslims had nothing to do with the attacks, its ok, let them build a mosque.

Sorry but on that I disagree. The authorities in Spain found evidence that MUSLIM EXTREMISTS planned 9/11 in Spain, and to a lesser degree in Germany too.

Spain judge charges 9/11 suspect

A Spanish judge has charged a fugitive Moroccan for involvement in planning the September 2001 attacks in the US.
Judge Baltasar Garzon said that Amer Azizi helped to organise a meeting in Spain in July 2001 where key 9/11 plotters finalised their plans.

Mr Azizi fled Spain in November 2001 after several al-Qaeda suspects were arrested by the Spanish authorities.

news.bbc.co.uk...


The government has been conplicit in a lot of things but 9/11 was done by Muslim extremists...

This information came out after the Socialist government of Spain took over, and that government HATES everything about the U.S.

So if a Socialist government which hated/hates the Republican form of government that "EXISTED" in the U.S. a few years back found proof that it was MUSLIM EXTREMISTS.... it must have been Muslim extremists...

There have been many arrests of Muslim Extremists in Spain, and other European countries, but still "some people" claim there is no Islamic extremism".....

Last Updated: Wednesday, 23 November 2005, 17:04 GMT

E-mail this to a friend Printable version

Spain arrests 10 terror suspects


Spanish police have arrested 10 people suspected of setting up a support network for an Islamic extremist group thought to be linked to al-Qaeda.
The suspects were detained in and around the Spanish cities of Alicante, Murcia and Granada.

Spain's interior minister alleged that the cell "gave logistical support and finance" to the Algerian-based Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat.

He said they were not linked, at this stage, to the 2004 Madrid bombings.
......

news.bbc.co.uk...


BTW, here is some information on the main judge from Spain who was part of the investigation for the Madrid bombings and he and authorities found also that the Muslim extremists had also planned 9/11 in Spain...

Garzon has been one of Spain’s most prominent yet divisive public officials, a man well-known globally for high profile cross-border justice cases.

Garzon is a hero to leftists and groups like Amnesty International for daring to take on tough human rights and anti-terror cases. But conservatives in Spain have viewed him as a headline-loving egotist with a grudge against right-wing causes.

Garzon prosecutions have encompassed Islamic extremists, Basque separatists and Argentine “dirty war” suspects.
.......

blog.taragana.com...

So please, don't even dare claim that "the authorities in Spain were working with the Bush administration"....



Many Americans, and even Europeans, at least younger people, seem to be forgetting history...

The first thing that Mohammed asked the united Muslim tribes, many of which he united by force btw, gave specific orders to spread Islam around the world by the sword. This is why they Muslim tribes set forth to invade Europe in the 7th century, and Muslim extremists now-adays want to do the exact same thing, except they use many different tactics, including infiltration.

The first two large wars the United States had to fight (1801-1815) right after it had become an independent country was the Barbary, or Tripolan Wars, when the U.S. had to fight against several north African Muslim countries becuase the way of living of those countries included piracy against merchant, and passenger ships going to and from Europe to the U.S...

Muslim extremists are the descendants of those same people who decided to follow the orders of Mohammed to "bring Islam around the world by the sword or any other way possible", and that is exactly what they are doing to this day.

BTW....

Original 9/11 plan 'involved 10 planes'
By Oliver Burkeman
September 22, 2003
The Guardian

The man believed to have organised the September 11 terrorist attacks has told his US interrogators that the original plan was to hijack 10 American planes and simultaneously hijack or bomb aircraft in south-east Asia.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said the had plan changed from 1996, when he first proposed to Osama bin Laden an attack in which terrorists would "hijack 10 planes in the United States and fly them into targets", according to reports seen by Associated Press.

Mr Mohammed has confirmed that he was involved in the failed Bojinka plot to blow up 12 planes in Asia in the mid-90s, AP said, and at one point planned a similar approach with US airlines.

But visa problems for the initial volunteers, and Bin Laden's doubts about synchronising attacks in the US and Asia, led to a change of plan.
...

www.globalissues.org...

Originally posted by Good Intentions
Already been done. Google churches in Iraq, and then middle-east while your at it. Also, if you go a couple pages back in this thread, there are examples presented for you.

For crying out loud... The Middle East was not always Muslim, (even with Islamization by force, and compulsory with the taxes non-muslims have to pay there are still other religions including Christian people in many parts of the ME) and CHRISTIANITY was in a lot of places in the Middle East... Those were not just built now....

Chirstianity existed in many places in the ME before the expansion and invasion of Islam in case you didnt know...

BTW, just like they want to build a mosque next to ground zero, how about we build a Christian/Catholic church now in a Muslim sacred area....


[edit on 8-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]