Mosque to go up near New York's ground zero

Originally posted by muzzleflash



1) I have shown with links, sources and evidence, along with other posters, that Nazism is a religion. Therefore it equals any other religion, especially violent ones.

And because a few top brass SS officials took part in crazy occult practices this makes the entirety of Nazism a religion? For an overwhelming majority, it was just a political ideology, albeit I'll agree if it wasn't destroyed it would have turned into a religion.

2)I did not vilify Islam , it vilified itself before I was even born.
And I only took those quotes to contradict what the other poster said about Islam being Peaceful all the time. Just to show there is 2 sides of that coin.

And you cannot interpret "killing" in any other way it is killing. Either they IGNORE the passage, or they follow it and kill people.

And as someone mentioned, if you understood the context for the passages you linked you'd know that it called for these actions in a specific case. There are extremists out there that do follow them to an extreme though.

Furthermore the languages out there are rather flamboyant and hyperbolic at times in cases in which they don't call for in our understanding. That's the problem with translating different languages. The language is rather dramatic at times.

3) I never said Christianity was different. I said they just IGNORE Leviticus purposefully with all kinds of silly excuses. Does Islam ignore those sections?

Yes, most do, that is the whole point of this.

Because I have video tape of so called Islamic people preaching those quotes. Show me some videos of Christians PREACHING LEVITICUS. Good luck on that one. Specifically find this one, people preaching that "if your kids talk back, kill them" which is in Leviticus.

You mean besides the WBC? Christian extremists don't exist to the degree Islamic extremists do. But that doesn't mean that because instead of 0.001% of Christians might accept it while 1 - 5% of Muslims accept it, do you think it's fair to blanket the entirety of Islam for what a few do?

I was not cherry picking your posts. I skipped over your Bible quotes because I ALREADY ADDRESSED THEM. I equated Leviticus with the Islamic Equivalent.

There was a whole lot more than just Leviticus with what I mentioned.

Using this whole "your a cherry picker" is one of the worst forms of debate I've seen today...[edit on 7-5-2010 by muzzleflash]

....You compared Muslims to Nazi's and you think pedobear is the international symbol for pedophiles. You think your word has much weight to it?

Originally posted by silencer


When people draw cartoons of Mohammad knowing it will upset even the 'Moderate Muslims', they do it anyway. Majority of people support it too. Yet, the same people are opposed to building a mosque because it will upset people. Double Standards

Interesting point you make.

Let us examine these "Double Standards".

The Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy began after 12 editorial cartoons, most of which depicted the Islamic prophet Muhammad, were published in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten on 30 September 2005.

This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated into violence with police firing on the crowds (resulting in a total of more than 100 deaths),[1] including setting fire to the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, storming European buildings, and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, French and German flags in Gaza City.[2][3] Various groups, primarily in the Western world, responded by endorsing the Danish policies, including "Buy Danish" campaigns and other displays of support. Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen described the controversy as Denmark's worst international crisis since World War II

Supporters have said that the cartoons illustrated an important issue in a period of Islamic terrorism and that their publication is a legitimate exercise of the right of free speech, explicitly tied to the issue of self-censorship.They claim that Muslims were not targeted in a discriminatory way since unflattering cartoons about other religions (or their leaders) are frequently printed.

...and whether the images of Muhammad per se are offensive to Muslims, as thousands of illustrations of Muhammad have appeared in books by and for Muslims[7]

en.wikipedia.org...-web.archive.org-0

This looks way worse than Double Standards to me.

1) So you can criticize Jesus or Krishna or Buddha or Moses, but if someone criticizes Mohammad, death threats fly and people start dying??

2)Muslim texts depict Mohammad and it is ok, but when a "infidel" does it, he deserves to die?
static.rnw.nl...

Amir Taheri on whether or not portraying the Prophet Muhammad is banned:
"There are lots of images of the Prophet Muhammad - we are talking in London [the discussion was recorded in London] and we could take Mr Ramadan to the Victoria and Albert Museum, to the British Library and to many other places where there are hundreds of images of the Prophet Muhammad in books written and illustrated by Muslims and there are many thousands more in museums and libraries in Muslim countries."

Thank you for bringing up the cartoon subject as it illustrates the type of mentality going on here.

How many New Yorkers are going to send in death threats and start rioting/murdering Muslims over their mosque near 'ground zero"?? None? Figures...

Double Standards indeed.

Emphasis in quotes was placed by myself, of course.

So if the terrorists happened to be Christian, does that mean people can get mad about building churches in NYC?

If you want my real opinion, I think Muslims by and large, are skillfully manipulated into violence by their Media Outlets (which we could say are NWO-owned).

And this is probably for the purpose of vilifying all religions. But hey, it wasn't hard because religions are just ready to explode into violence due to their absurd belief systems. So it was easy for the "NWO" to lead them into this subtly and cunningly.

And whomever is building this mosque near 'ground zero' is also playing into the "game". They are simply trying to inflame people, and this time attempting to provoke a reaction from the NYC people I suppose?

I have my doubts that NYC people will do anything about it. Vandalism is a real possibility, but we will have to wait and see.

Why would they do this? Maybe it aids the 'NWO' in setting up that infamous "One World Religion" that has been spoken of for years here on ATS...

Originally posted by nixie_nox
So if the terrorists happened to be Christian, does that mean people can get mad about building churches in NYC?

No one is arguing about building mosques in NYC, as there are tons of mosques in NYC already. Just this one across from the highly publicized and much propagandized "Ground Zero" which is attributed to Islamic Extremism specifically.

(Although I personally have my doubts). Point is 95% of the USA is convinced they were behind it.

for a religion that claims that it isn't trying to take over the world and convert everyone they seem to be making great head way in the establishment of mosques all over the world......

its bad enough that it has taken this long to stop the church of christianity bleeding us dry and building new churches now we have to put up with this every where we go....

The sooner we all realise that religion is just the worship of the matrix of the universe not a specific person / animal a lot better the world will become....

no.. hell no.
no Temple Mount games here.

Something else to gloat with. A monument to the supposed heroism of the "911 conspiarators".

These people have no class nor sense of decency.

reply to post by SpectreDC


1) So you say only SS officers were in on the religion, but yet all Nazis are called Jew Haters and Racist. Why?

2) Demanding to kill non-believers cannot be taken out of context, it stands on it's own right.

3)Show me where Westboro Baptist Church preaches to kill kids who talk back, I am very interested to know. BTW I bet you would learn a lot from reading this thread I wrote that was ignored.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
They attack homosexuals all day long, but I don't really see them calling for Murder. Just show me where they call for murder. And read my thread too btw.

4) Ok I cherry picked Leviticus because it's pretty crazy. Let's just include the whole Bible in my comparison to satisfy your thirst for details.

5) The pedobear remark is off topic, and a low blow. You are really trying to get me to be mad at you but I am not nor will I be. Take it to the relevant thread thanks.

I'm sorry but anyone who defends the Westboro Church is just as vile and repulsive as the members of that group. A bunch of ill minded creatures they are. I don't care where Fred was and what he did for who, protesting funerals of soldiers and bashing homosexuality only shows your true side: Depraved and Uncivilized.

Sorry, had to get that out there

Originally posted by muzzleflash

This looks way worse than Double Standards to me.

1) So you can criticize Jesus or Krishna or Buddha or Moses, but if someone criticizes Mohammad, death threats fly and people start dying??

I never criticize Jesus, Krishna, Buddha or Moses or any religious figure for that matter. It's a matter of simple civility and tolerance towards other people and cultures.

If I knew a person would be offended if I said something about Krishna, then I simply won't say it because It's about RESPECT for a fellow human being and his values, something that has almost vanished in the West.

I don't agree with Muslims rioting against cartoons of Mohammad. In-fact I find it absolutely ridiculous that people get riled up about such things. But on the other hand, I can see their point of view. The west has continually been 'occupying' Muslim countries. Either peacefully or by force. US has hundreds of military bases in the middle east against the wishes of the locals. Also US is currently engaged in two wars in the middle east. The general sentiment of the Muslim world is not that positive towards the West right now and for good reasons. First you invade them in the name of 'Democracy' and then you spit on their beliefs in the name of 'Free speech'. Somewhere along the way, people forgot that a little tolerance and respect goes a long way.

I still say it's double standards. You can make cartoons of Mohammad against the wishes of millions of people. But you can't build a mosque because a few thousand people are against it?

Sorry, the double standards are clear. You can try to paint it anyway you want but it is what it is.

2)Muslim texts depict Mohammad and it is ok, but when a "infidel" does it, he deserves to die?

Name one 'Muslim text' that depicts Mohammad. I have yet to come across one. Depiction and pictures/cartoons of Mohammad are strictly prohibited in Islam. So an Islamic text would never do it. I would not be surprised that there are books with drawings of Mohammad, but my point is that Islam prohibits it. So anyone (including a Muslim) who published a book with drawings of Mohammad did so against the teachings of the religion.

Thank you for bringing up the cartoon subject as it illustrates the type of mentality going on here.

Yes, you are welcome. It does illustrate the double standards that people show here. Free speech and freedom are only applicable when it suits people. I say let people draw cartoons of Mohammad (even though I am against it because of the 'Respect others's beliefs' mentality I have) and also let people build Mosques anywhere they want as long as they have legal permit.

How many New Yorkers are going to send in death threats and start rioting/murdering Muslims over their mosque near 'ground zero"?? None? Figures...

Build a Mosque in Vatican city and I'm sure there will be riots all over the world.

Originally posted by Frakkerface
reply to post by Wondering302

 

Heading for a muslim country? what does that even mean?? Please explain, I'd love to know. Have you even been to a muslim country? You might be pleasantly surprised.

I could understand some fuss about a mosque if 911 was carried out by muslims but seeing as there is no proof of that I don't see the big deal.

This New York, there must be a lot of muslims in such metropolitan city. Hardly surprising a mosque is getting built. How long is USA going to hang on to the fallacy of 911 and the stigma of Islam?

By pleasantly surprised this poster means, white women killed or burned alive. Where most regard women as nothing more than objects to be owned and controlled, and a unmeasurable amount of hate towards anyone who believes in something different.

It is offensive if only for the fact that they know damn well what they are doing. But let our tolerance trump their tolerance and they will continue to build upon their religions stigma. This is America and they can build it where they want but whether free to do it or not there are hidden consequences for your actions and this isn't exactly gonna make them more popular among New Yorkers.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by ALlENATlON]

Plans to build a mosque two blocks away from ground zero

2 blocks is not near ...2 blocks away is a long ways



[edit on 7-5-2010 by AndersonLee]

Originally posted by AndersonLee
Plans to build a mosque two blocks away from ground zero

2 blocks is not near ...2 blocks away is a long ways



[edit on 7-5-2010 by AndersonLee]

Yes, it's indeed quite near.


2nd line.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
I'm sorry but anyone who defends the Westboro Church is just as vile and repulsive as the members of that group. A bunch of ill minded creatures they are. I don't care where Fred was and what he did for who, protesting funerals of soldiers and bashing homosexuality only shows your true side: Depraved and Uncivilized.

Sorry, had to get that out there

I never defended them but taking a one-sided point of view is just that, one sided.

I personally dislike their rhetoric too, but they are by no means equal to Nazis as they have never killed anyone. They are lunatics IMHO though. lol.

There is a grey area in life; as this thread (and many other threads) clearly shows. There is two sides of a story. When people get killed *or their liberties infringed*, I will accept a bias position and stand against it.

But if you can supply evidence that they preach killing we can toss them in the group of murder-condoning liberty-hating extremist groups.

Im not one for political correctness so will just wade in.... I dont believe that Muslims caried out 9/11.... This is total bad taste and i wish i was there to protest it...I personally saw the reactions of muslims in Israel when the towers went down... It was like christmas.. They was dancing and giving each other presents... No joke.... So whether this was a false flag or not... The muslim world was celebrating the deaths of many US and none US citizens.... Fact......
You can be as pc as you like.... But they hate you and your way of life.... This would be a great smack in the nose to the families of those who died and service personel who have died as a direct result since....


Whatever 9/11 side you lean on its still true....... I dont believe they did it either but I would fight this for the families who need to believe in their country and their family member did not die for jack.....

reply to post by muzzleflash


They are indeed a bunch of lunatics, Also, it's hard not to be one sided when it comes to them. How can anyone sympathize with them? I wouldn't be surprised if they preached murder either TBH.

Oh that caused me to think of another example to make my point clear.

Westboro Baptist Church. They go to places they are not welcome (military funerals) and say things that are ugly, hateful, and reprehensible to almost everyone.

But is it right for them to do so? Is it respectful? Is it wise? Is it civil?

I don't think so.

Just as I would demand WBC leave funerals alone, I would ask that a mosque not be placed within such proximity to "Ground Zero".

They are the same issue. Respect of other people.

Which both incidents, WBC at a funeral saying hate-speech, and a mosque near GZ preaching islam (the widely accepted culprit of 911 in the majority of populations minds), are basically the same issue at their heart.

If you are going to defend this mosque on the grounds of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion, lets see you defend WBC on these same grounds. Let's be fair now! Thanks.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by muzzleflash]

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

They are indeed a bunch of lunatics,

Also, it's hard not to be one sided when it comes to them. How can anyone sympathize with them? I wouldn't be surprised if they preached murder either TBH.

But can you prove it?

I haven't been able to find any evidence actually.

We have tons of evidence of them being total idiots though, but like I said, I don't see anyone defending them.

However, we have people defending Islam and it's hate-speech on the grounds of "Freedom" yet they willfully ignore WBC and their "Freedom".

Funny coincidence.

How about a mosque where that Nissan Pathfinder was parked on Times Square?