Socialist I Am Calling You Out!, page 15

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by oozyism

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Free markets have existed for millenia and NEVER failed...
[edit on 13-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

It would seem to me that if free markets existed all over the place a few hundred years ago but they have since been replaced by whatever is in place now that they indeed failed.

No matter what the reason the fact remains that they did not hold up against whatever brought them down.


[edit on 14-5-2010 by daskakik]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by oozyism

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The economic crisis was created by the Sociaist elites to implement their One World Socialist "dictatorship"....

Free markets have existed for millenia and NEVER failed...
[edit on 13-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

I don't know but this is most biased post,which I have read. If USA is socialist then
I'm a straw hat. Seriously speaking, USA is as right wing as Santa is red. Good that Earthcitizen07 explained before, why this post is biased.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

[edit on 14-5-2010 by SpeDeZo]

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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It would be foolish to think that USSR was socialist or even Communist. It was more like oligarhy cloaked in cape of communism.

Perhaps that is correct! It seems we cannot get anything that is pure without the elite basterdising it for themselves.

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
Let's forget WWII for second.
Anyway, I think that Hitler was more corporationist than socialist as most of his government project and tasks were outsourced to corporations. In this way he resembled more Thatcher's policies.
Mussolini was also rather right winged personality, whom I wouldn't accosiate solely with socialism. Certainly both had in their political socialistic things, but also not so socialistic things. It's certainly interesting matter to investigate, pre-world war 2 political programs.

I think the classic right/left paradigm is outdated and often misleading.

Both hitler and mussolini were imperialistically oriented socialists, much like stalin was an imperialistic communist. People often associate imperialism ONLY with capitalism, but history has proved this assumption erroneous.

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
There is also one thing, which I see very intriguing. It seems that American's have some sort of obsession on classifying certain politicians to certain political group. It seems as if there is no middleground, which I must say exists. In American point of view you are either right or left. It's perhaps no wonder that people in America have problems classifying parties in other countries as political spectrum in many countries is larger than in USA.

In america there is only extreme capitalism and moderate capitalism.

Republicans are for extreme(unregulated) capitalism and democrats are for moderate(somewhat regulated) capitalism.

Americans think socialists are communists and vice versa because they have NEVER EXPERIENCED either.

Originally posted by OLDMATE

Therefore its not the same is it....

....Socialism is the first stage to transform a Capitalist nation into Socialism and finally into Communism...

BTW EVERY Communist also sees himself/herself as a Socialist...

Another example is the CCP, it is supposed to be a Communist regime, yet they call themselves Socialists, and in "The Socialist Republic of China"

Liberals, and those who are in the left don't realise the many siminalities between the two... Communism needs Socialism to expand.

Originally posted by OLDMATE
Wrong. there are still many successful socialist states......My country for example.

BS, if your people had embraced true Socialism you would be living in an oppressive regime... which state is that first of all? Second of alljust beause you took a couple of plans ir des/t mean

Can i ask you this....have you ever lived in or even BEEN to a socialist state? The saying "don't knock it till you've tried it" springs to mind.

Originally posted by OLDMATE
A true Socialisr owns a large portion, ir

A true Socialist doesn't own anything since property is attacted and owned by the state. The property belong to the state. Hence there are no private property as the state OWNS IT ALL IN THE NAME OF THE WHOLE PEOPLE...

You want to go through another Socialist dictatorship, you do it by yourself, and leave the rest of us alone....

There are plenty of Socialsim/Commmunist

Originally posted by OLDMATE
So if you beef is with pure socialism, to be honest im with you, but socialism is NOT communism.....

Really?... Learn from Karl Marx and see what has been the purpose of Socialism....

Vladimir Lenin, drawing on Karl Marxs ideas of lower and upper stages of socialism(12)defined socialism as a transitional stage between capitalism and comtmunism.

en.wikipedia.org...

Socialism IS Communism, as in a stage to transform a Capitalist nation into the final goal of Comunism...but go ahead and keep following Socialism.... You will find yourself in the fight of your life since millions of Americans have sffered Socialism/Communism and we don't want the same thin to the U.S.A.

If you think most people are going to be complacent robots to your ideology you are more dellusional than I thou.

Socialism is about taking away the individual rights, and once those are taken awa then the elites can control us more than they are doing no.



[edit on 14-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by Zerbst

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I agree the solution is in the middle somewhere. I got blamed for not being a Libertarian because I have a community mind approach to basic necessities of life for all people. However, in no way do I do I think either a social approach or a individual approach is the answer. Neither way is sufficient. The middle ground is simply some of the following.

Low taxes.

Less government.

Return to common law doctrines.

The taxes that are collected are to improve the lives of all peoples basic needs or security and are available to all without qualifying. If you are rich and you need food you can line up to get food like anyone else. If you rich and you want the government health care you line up with the rest. Taxation should be dictated by the drain on government providing these basic services. If people want less tax they should encourage less drain on the government. This might get the rich to really help address social issues to their own benefit.

Research spending is left to corporations to innovate, not to be funded by the public.

Inventions become public property after a determined amount of time, for the betterment of all.

Untapped natural resources cannot be held by the rich simply to control supply and demand. Again the betterment of the whole should be controlling.

Local government should dictate land use not the federal government.

The sad truth is that a solution is not wanted by those in control. While the average citizens debate various strategies to improve quality of life, those in control continue to implement methods to quash it. Like it or not everything is just as they want it to be. The proof is plain to see, but people just refuse to identify it? Conservatives, liberals, democrats, republicans and the rest of these labels used everyday are only methods to divide and conquer.

What use do these terms serve other than separate, segregate and confuse progression? Why are they wanted? If we're truly all on the same side and want the same things then what is the point? People not only fail to recognize this fact, but they wear these labels proudly? Makes no sense to me. Everywhere you look there are debates over these labels that ultimately end in useless arguments. This gets us nowhere near any solutions and that's exactly what it's supposed to do.

These labels are not to be worn proudly, rather they should be exposed and recognized for the weapons they are. These are the strategies used against us by those in control. Until people realize this things will never change for the better.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
....Socialism is the first stage to transform a Capitalist nation into Socialism and finally into Communism...

It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

Each case is unique!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
BS, if your people had embraced true Socialism you would be living in an oppressive regime... which state is that first of all? Second of alljust beause you took a couple of plans ir des/t mean

Can i ask you this....have you ever lived in or even BEEN to a socialist state? The saying "don't knock it till you've tried it" springs to mind.

"Nice job" of intentionally confusing a socialist democracy to a communist dictatorship!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
A true Socialist doesn't own anything since property is attacted and owned by the state. The property belong to the state. Hence there are no private property as the state OWNS IT ALL IN THE NAME OF THE WHOLE PEOPLE...

Again you are confusing socialism with communism!

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Really?... Learn from Karl Marx and see what has been the purpose of Socialism....

Vladimir Lenin, drawing on Karl Marxs ideas of lower and upper stages of socialism(12)defined socialism as a transitional stage between capitalism and comtmunism.

en.wikipedia.org...

Socialism IS Communism, as in a stage to transform a Capitalist nation into the final goal of Comunism...but go ahead and keep following Socialism.... You will find yourself in the fight of your life since millions of Americans have sffered Socialism/Communism and we don't want the same thin to the U.S.A.

If you think most people are going to be complacent robots to your ideology you are more dellusional than I thou.

Socialism is about taking away the individual rights, and once those are taken awa then the elites can control us more than they are doing no.

[edit on 14-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

I don't care what wikipedia says on the topics of socialism and communism. It is not an authority on anything and has been used for nefarious purposes in the past. ANYONE can claim ANYTHING there!

There is a conspiracy against both socialism and communism by the PTB. Communism was so dirty and still is, that people have to call themselves "socialists" to avoid the communist STIGMA. China calls hereself "The peoples' republic"...hint, hint...communism!

I have nothing against communism but I get very pissed off when people either intentionally or unintentionally confuse the two.

Another conspiracy against socialism is that people use fascism and nazism, both of an imperialistic socialist nature, to BLANKET SMEAR socialism as though socialism can only arise through a dictatorship or quasi-dictatorship.

Socialism has existed and continues to exist in many democracies of europe and canada, although of a pseudo nature. Stop smearing socialism because you are doing a big disservice to many people. Socialism is the MIDDLE GROUND economic system between capitalism and communism!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

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Wikipedia's article of socialism is written from American point of view and there has been enormously discussion with modifiers on site if you bother to look discussion topic. Wikipedia's site on socialism is extremely unreliable source because it has been modified at least few dozen of time. Info on that site should not be used without critisism. Generally wikipedia offers good quality of information, but you should always check discussion tab to see problems of article in question.


I'd like to also point out that meaning of socialism has changed over time and that while using same word we might think differently about it. Generally when talking about socialism here in Finland we tend to think about Wealfare state. Again, yes socialism is step towarads communism, but it does not have to be.In finland we call it socialism or social government, respectively. Here is genrally good text on nordic model as wikipedias article is much more unreliable.

Nordic Model in PDF

Again... you should forget about communism all talk about workers, classes, poor beings robbed by rich, etc. It's completely biased idea.

BTW Has any of you watched one episode of Star Trek?
Well, I'm not the fan of the show, but notice how In Star Trek there never seems to be discussion about money, stocks, banking and economy so much. Well, that is because Star Trek basically illustrates Communistic society. Communism is more likely to occur at some point of human evolution as it is natural, at one point material goods won't matter as producing them will be free or almost free, due to utilizing energy of the universe. I'd like to point out that we are very far from that socially and economically and will never be there even by my lifetime.

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

---

Wikipedia's article of socialism is written from American point of view and there has been enormously discussion with modifiers on site if you bother to look discussion topic. Wikipedia's site on socialism is extremely unreliable source because it has been modified at least few dozen of time. Info on that site should not be used without critisism. Generally wikipedia offers good quality of information, but you should always check discussion tab to see problems of article in question.

Yes I have noticed the changes and they have not been few. It is a shame the people who write the articles are so biased because they are doing a big disservice to all the readers.

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
I'd like to also point out that meaning of socialism has changed over time and that while using same word we might think differently about it. Generally when talking about socialism here in Finland we tend to think about Wealfare state. Again, yes socialism is step towarads communism, but it does not have to be.In finland we call it socialism or social government, respectively. Here is genrally good text on nordic model as wikipedias article is much more unreliable. .

In europe, welfare means taking proper care of all the people and treating them with respect.

In america, welfare has been misconstrued to mean taking care of the lazy. They assume ONLY THE LAZY need welfare and nobody ever gets hurt, sick or layed-off. Ultra-capitalism, in the form of corporate greed, takes advantage of peoples' ignorance/stupidity to exploit them. They prefer to dissolve it rather than fix it! Just look at "general" schwartzenger's plan for california...

For me, genuine socialism is about the government owning the means of production and heavy industry, while allowing and regulating capitalism.

Two or three decades ago(if you are old enough to remember) all the airlines, railroads, hospitals, electricity, telephone, tv/radio, water/sewage, etc were government owned enterprises. Slowely but surely, in the name of "healthy competition" and deregulation, all these government owned enterprises started to unload shares and we are now at the point where more than 50% of the shares are in the hands of the private sector. That means massive lay-offs, pay-cuts and more work hours per weak. It also means less vacation time and more pressure!

The profits and losses(mostly losses due to government mismanagment) were equally shared by the public...we the people! It is my theory that all this wreckful behavior was intensional so the government could have an excuse to privatise the public sector. Many government officials must have been bribed to ensure the illuminati's cooperation and the money sent to offshore bank accounts were they would be next to impossible to trace. Its a massive conspiracy and I doubt we will ever get to the bottom of it.

In the meantime we must learn to cope with corporate slavery IN THIS ONE WORLD CAPITALIST DICTATORSHIP or be labeled "lazy communist sympthisers" in this UNBELIEVABLY ABSURD WORLD WE LIVE IN! Go america....thanks for destroying socialism and any hope for a better future mankind had.

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