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Socialist I Am Calling You Out!

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posted on May, 11 2010 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by OLDMATE
 


Markets don't care what flag is flying, only about supply and demand. It doesn't matter what governments attempt to prohibit, there has never been a time in history when prohibition of a product in demand worked. Those instituting the prohibition know this, it isn't out of ignorance that they prohibit, and usually the full on intent is to give crime an industry. As for attempts to control markets, men can attempt to get pregnant and give birth, it just won't work.

Class warfare is an invention. Every person has the free will and power to live as they choose. Here is what I will admit; if a freeman makes the choice to live free while residing under tyranny, that government can imprison or kill that man, but it has nothing to do with social status or class, unless you care to define these classes as bullies and good guys.

No American has ever lived in a free market, but I remain certain such a market is far better than most who never lived under it, give it credit for being, and I firmly believe free markets can and will work. Although, I also think pure socialism as a voluntary way of life for small communities can work also.




posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I'm going to discontinue this, its pointless. If you beleive the governments intentionally create black markets, that there is no divisions of class (atleast in the sense of the power players and the labourers, i personally beleive we are all part of a whole being so i do not say this from some deep seated anti-minority feelings). And if you also beleive a free market [would - ed] self regulate or guarantee any type of quality then clearly im wasting my time....

[edit on 11-5-2010 by OLDMATE]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


You keep pushing *inalienable rights* as though they are part of god's ten commandments. There is no such thing as inalienable rights...its a goddam political philosophy!!!

Second unless we do a complete overhaul of capitalism and ban corporatism, which is almost impossible, we will have to live with corporatism(the entire world for that matter)and have governments regulate them. Plain as day!

Free-market conservativism is outdated and impractical. ok? I bet you won't agree....

Third, people cannot govern themselves because they are not THE government. Ideally government should be AN EXTENSION of the people and corporations, responsible to everyone. Government should NOT be a corporation and the FED should NOT exist because the treasury department can issue currency. Get it? Probably not...........

Government SHOULD BE a semi-autonomous entity ANSWERABLE to EVERYONE! Call it a co-operative if you will where everyone benefits or suffers from its decision.

I am not advocating a tyranical monarchy or stalin socialism. That is ALSO outdated. True socialism does not equate to communism nor does it equate to fascism. Socialism equates to socialism. European socialism is NOT real socialism because its FASCISM under the guise of socialism, just like capitalism is a guise to FASCISM in america.

We have NEVER had real socialism because the PTB do not want it! Why would they want to relegate their status and become our servants? True socialism must be forced by the people or it will NEVER happen!

Enough said, lets just agree to disagree for now.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Yes, your argument about black markets now totally destroying the corporate stranglehold?

No one has still broached the argument on THAT yet.

So, who is going to save us from the evil corporations? Their partners in crime, the government?


Oh the madness and humor of the people that think trading one tyrant for another (or the very same one) is a good idea.


I would like to say I used your graph and gave you credit for posting it first, without the intention of insulting or disagreeing with anything you have said thus far.

You make good arguments and I respect that.


[edit on 11-5-2010 by EarthCitizen07]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Thank you, you always bring a sound argument. Carry on.

I have stated that in a perfect world socialism would work. In a perfect world.

Sorry, no perfect world out there. Criminals in power use it, just as they use supposed capitalism. More like cronie fascist capitalism.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 





You keep pushing *inalienable rights* as though they are part of god's ten commandments. There is no such thing as inalienable rights...its a goddam political philosophy!!!


And you keep pushing tyranny as if it is the only legitimate form of government...hell as if it is a legitimate form of government. Tyranny, totalitarianism, and the divine right doctrine are all political philosophies, and yet the exist. Listen, it is clear that freedom scares the hell out of you, I get it.




Second unless we do a complete overhaul of capitalism and ban corporatism, which is almost impossible, we will have to live with corporatism(the entire world for that matter)and have governments regulate them. Plain as day!


It is governments that created corporations, and now, as you are advocating them, they can't be undone, only regulated by that which can't undo what it did. If governments can't undo what they did, what makes you think they can regulate that mess they made?




Free-market conservativism is outdated and impractical. ok? I bet you won't agree....


Agree? With what "free market conservatism?" As if there is such a thing as free market liberalism, and that so called liberalism would be what, regulation? If a free market means no regulation, and it does, then what the hell makes you think a regulated market is a free market? A free market is a free market and not amount of double speak will make it free, but I bet you won't agree...




Third, people cannot govern themselves because they are not THE government.


Then who is the government? Was it created by God, or People? Do you imagine that governments just create themselves?




Ideally government should be AN EXTENSION of the people and corporations, responsible to everyone.


An extension in the context you put it is merely the act of extending something, as in hands using a tool, and the tools would be an extension of those hands, as opposed to delaying. In this context, who do you think is doing the extension? You yourself admit it is the People who are extending and necessarily using government as a tool. But who owns this tool if not the People?




Government should NOT be a corporation and the FED should NOT exist because the treasury department can issue currency. Get it? Probably not...........


Stop pretending like it is I who advocates the government being a corporation, you know full well I don't, and further it was you of whom I just quoted earlier who has declared it "almost impossible" to ban corporations. Get it? Probably not....




Government SHOULD BE a semi-autonomous entity ANSWERABLE to EVERYONE!


Semi-autonomous? More double speak? Do you just make up your own definitions as you go along? One is either autonomous or they are not. One who is autonomous is not ruled by external forces, and acts independently. There is no such thing as "semi-autonomous", so if a government is going to be answerable to the People they can not be autonomous. Get it?




Call it a co-operative if you will where everyone benefits or suffers from its decision.


Call it what you want, it is tyranny you are advocating and under tyranny the People will surely suffer. People do not co-operate in order to suffer, quite the opposite, they co-operate so they don't have to suffer. If the decisions made by such co-operation bring about suffering, I assure you that co-operation will cease to exist.




I am not advocating a tyranical monarchy or stalin socialism.


What you are advocating is subjugation of the People, and that is tyranny, and no amount of double speak will change it.




True socialism does not equate to communism nor does it equate to fascism. Socialism equates to socialism. European socialism is NOT real socialism because its FASCISM under the guise of socialism, just like capitalism is a guise to FASCISM in america.


Blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda, meek, meek, and merk, merk. Come on man, nobody here buys your pretense at erudition. You have no idea what you are talking about, as all you ever do is argue from an emotional state of being, and the predominate emotion you operate under is fear.




Enough said, lets just agree to disagree for now.


My friend, it is always good to hear from you, and you are always welcome to disagree with me, but until we can agree to agree, there will be no agreement. Take care and God Bless.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Alright, I have to admit JPZ, if everyone had the control that people think socialism contends they do, there system "could" work.

They just forget that to institute their system, a control parameter would be needed.

They keep forgetting that control in any individual or entity ALWAYS leads to tyranny.

They think that any control on the capitalist component is wrong, but they think someone on the socialist side would be any different. Just because a socialist is a socialist, does that make them different than a capitalist? Of course not, but that is what is pushed as an agenda.

Control is control, NO MATTER who has it.

Does anyone get this ABSOLUTE FACT, yet?



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


In order to vilify capitalism, without fail, those who oppose it will point to corporatism and declare it capitalism, which is no different than pointing to a chair and calling it the floor. In reality, a chair is a chair, the floor is the floor, and A is A.

Control parameters are necessary in any system, this is a reality. It should be noted that all systems tend towards entropy, and in understanding this, fully understanding this, then we can get closer to creating optimal systems. Control parameters are necessary in capitalism as there must be some form of anti-trust laws in place in order to ensure massive competition. Massive competition is a key component of capitalism and it is because it builds a system less likely to succumb to entropy.

I advocate capitalism over socialism because, while I believe socialism on a smaller scale can work, just as capitalism on a smaller scale can work, on a larger scale, socialism will tend towards entropy far quicker than capitalism will.

Control is Control, just as A is A, and for this reason, control is best spread evenly amongst the People in order to dilute the concentration of power, as power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I am what I am.

What else is there?

Life is but a dream, and those that feel life is a dream? Life becomes a nightmare. Who the frell cares anymore?

Like I said, life is but a dream!



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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America has thrived on Capitalism and Imperialism since its creation over 200 years ago. We must be doing something right! After all you're sitting here, on the Internet, on your PC, on a freedom of speech website, being able to give feedback.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by intelinside451]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


There is so many incorrect statements in this arguement i hardly know where to start..



It is governments that created corporations


Is that right is it?
Im pretty sure corporations are private entities, (well they're supposed to be).



A free market is a free market and not amount of double speak will make it free


read that sentence again...im sure you'll see the irony



An extension in the context you put it is merely the act of extending something, as in hands using a tool, and the tools would be an extension of those hands, as opposed to delaying. In this context, who do you think is doing the extension? You yourself admit it is the People who are extending and necessarily using government as a tool. But who owns this tool if not the People?


Your looking at this wrong....the people are the TOOL being "extended" by the government, not the other way around. Governments have been around as long as there has been dominance in the human psyche. Your right they are created by the people, but once created they use the power as they see fit.



Blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda, meek, meek, and merk, merk. Come on man, nobody here buys your pretense at erudition. You have no idea what you are talking about, as all you ever do is argue from an emotional state of being, and the predominate emotion you operate under is fear.


Can i just ask you something what do YOU know about socialism? Ever been to a socialist state? I wouldnt exactly call it tyranny, seeing as we voted our leaders into power, we have many many civil rights (of all types) and every single person in our country can walk into a hospital anywhere in australia with a broken arm and be cared for....Tyranny? I think not.

Oh and intelinside451



America has thrived on Capitalism and Imperialism since its creation over 200 years ago.


Hows that going for you at the moment?



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by OLDMATE
 





There is so many incorrect statements in this arguement i hardly know where to start..


Really? Even though you hardly know where to start, you do so anyway:




Im pretty sure corporations are private entities, (well they're supposed to be).


A simple effort made at researching your claim would have saved you the embarrassment now. You are certainly entitled to your feelings, but your feelings do not shape policies and legislation. You clearly have no idea what a corporation is. Where a private individual possesses Inalienable Rights, a corporation does not and exist by charter. This charter implicitly makes the granter of such a charter the superior, and those applying for grant of such a charter admit to an inferior status.

Certainly, in the United States of America, all corporations are created by charter granted them by the state in which they applied for such a status and that status is as a seperate legal entity. The same is true of all companies registering in England, Scotland, Wales or Ireland: under UK Companies Law. The same is true in Germany. The same is true in France, and that is all the research I am willing to do on your behalf. Hell, I sincerely doubt you will take the time to read what I have supplied you and do your due diligence in "denying ignorance", as I have no doubt you are quite comfortable in your ignorance, smugly declaring those who have actually taken the time to educate themselves as being wrong.




read that sentence again...im sure you'll see the irony


It is indeed ironic. Do you have a problem with irony? I certainly have a problem with those who engage in double speak, and no amount of double speak will make any of us free. Get it?




Your looking at this wrong....the people are the TOOL being "extended" by the government, not the other way around.


I am looking at the reality of the situation, and that reality is self evident. Governments are artificial just as any tool is. A government can't speak and think for itself and requires people to act on its behalf. Are you so ignorant you actually needed that explained to you? Take off your blinders and stop pretending that myopia is the best way to look at the world. If you wish to provide an accurate reflection of the world you must be able to look at it and see it for what it is, not what you wish it was.




Governments have been around as long as there has been dominance in the human psyche.


There is no evidence of prehistoric civilization and the demarcation line between history and prehistory is civilization. However, before civilization there were certainly people, and it was people who built the civilizations that make up history. God, stop being so willfully ignorant!




Your right they are created by the people, but once created they use the power as they see fit.


Finally we get to some reality. Kings and Queens have seen their heads cut off, tyrants throughout history have been deposed and executed for doing precisely what you just described. There is law, and when law is disobeyed, there are real consequences to that.




Can i just ask you something what do YOU know about socialism? Ever been to a socialist state? I wouldnt exactly call it tyranny, seeing as we voted our leaders into power, we have many many civil rights (of all types) and every single person in our country can walk into a hospital anywhere in australia with a broken arm and be cared for....Tyranny? I think not.


Stop putting words in my mouth! You are taking a post I wrote in response to a poster who is clearly advocating tyranny and I spoke to that. At no point have I ever equated socialism with tyranny, and whatever inroads you and I may have made last night were clearly a wasted effort as your disingenuous behavior now attests to.

So bad is your behavior that you took a quote from another poster and have attributed it to me. That is beyond disingenuous and just flat out lying. How is being a liar working out for you?



[edit on 12-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Really? Even though you hardly know where to start, you do so anyway:


I beleive its called a figure of speach...

And as to governments creating corporations. OK so the Government allows them to be formed, but they are actually FORMED by, for, and of private citizens, NOT departments/people from the Government.



It is indeed ironic. Do you have a problem with irony? I certainly have a problem with those who engage in double speak, and no amount of double speak will make any of us free. Get it?


Ill be honest, no that paragraph makes almost no sense.



I am looking at the reality of the situation, and that reality is self evident. Governments are artificial just as any tool is. A government can't speak and think for itself and requires people to act on its behalf. Are you so ignorant you actually needed that explained to you?


Governments can and do speak for themselves. By "people" do you mean the people in the GOVERNMENT?



There is no evidence of prehistoric civilization and the demarcation line between history and prehistory is civilization. However, before civilization there were certainly people, and it was people who built the civilizations that make up history. God, stop being so willfully ignorant!


What are you getting at? Are you trying to deny that even tribal peoples in prehistory had a set of leaders and followers? The "Government" then was extremely basic but still, the fact remains there has always been some people in power and some people without it....or am i wrong again?



Finally we get to some reality. Kings and Queens have seen their heads cut off, tyrants throughout history have been deposed and executed for doing precisely what you just described. There is law, and when law is disobeyed, there are real consequences to that.


This is true. So following this logic wouldn't the people in socialist states be beheading their leaders, as they are so clearly tyrannical.



Stop putting words in my mouth! You are taking a post I wrote in response to a poster who is clearly advocating tyranny and I spoke to that. At no point have I ever equated socialism with tyranny, and whatever inroads you and I may have made last night were clearly a wasted effort as your disingenuous behavior now attests to.

So bad is your behavior that you took a quote from another poster and have attributed it to me. That is beyond disingenuous and just flat out lying. How is being a liar working out for you?


First of all where am i putting words into your mouth? And if i did i truely am sorry.

I dont beleive EarthCitizen07 was "clearly advocating tyranny", not at all.

And im going to have to disagree with you saying you never equated socialism to tyranny. i quote from you "Call it what you want, it is tyranny you are advocating".

Just one more thing, the last comment was directed at intelinside451, as stated before the quote. I realise this was not you saying this.....

Please don't accuse me of lying...because i dont.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by OLDMATE]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by OLDMATE
 





"Call it what you want, it is tyranny you are advocating".


Is this the best you can do to show how I am equating socialism to tyranny? I will call you a liar, because you are lying. I don't care if you think Earthcitizen isn't advocating tyranny, he has posted several posts that have advocated People being subjugated to government. Further, in one post he actually said that if people don't educate themselves and vote better then they deserve tyranny. So, while you are entitled to your beliefs, when you act on those beliefs in ways that are less than honest, then they are more like lying.

I had no idea what the name of the poster was who made the profoundly ignorant remark that was made, and your sentence above that quote is an incomprehensible one that does not make clear you are addressing another poster. There are tools, (you know those artificial extensions?) available to you so that you can make it perfectly clear that you are addressing someone other than I, of which you used that tool to make clear you were addressing me, you just didn't use that tool to make it clear that you were addressing another poster. You can call it laziness, you can call it an oversight, you can call it whatever you like, it was a misrepresentation of the truth. I don't care that you knew, I knew that you knew, what I am concerned about is others reading this who might not be so clear due to your laziness and omission. Lies of omission are still lies.

I am through with you hot shot! You cling to your ignorance like it is a velvet blanket, and your willingness to misrepresent the truth and thereby harm the integrity of the poster you are opposing is inexcusable. Earthcitizen, for all his passion and vehemence at least shows respect to those he opposes, and while he can be guilty of double speak, he does not attempt to harm the integrity of those he opposes.



[edit on 12-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
"Call it what you want, it is tyranny you are advocating".


This is CLEARLY equating the 2. He was in no way advocating tyranny but trying to break down the lies around socialism.



Further, in one post he actually said that if people don't educate themselves and vote better then they deserve tyranny.


I'm actually sympathetic to this statement, think about it. If more people in America voted, and were more educated on current political issues etc, i bet George dubya Bush would never have come into power...Think about that for a second, think about how much better the world would be.

[...however i will say nobody DESERVES tyranny - ed]




I had no idea what the name of the poster was who made the profoundly ignorant remark that was made, and your sentence above that quote is an incomprehensible one that does not make clear you are addressing another poster. There are tools, (you know those artificial extensions?) available to you so that you can make it perfectly clear that you are addressing someone other than I, of which you used that tool to make clear you were addressing me, you just didn't use that tool to make it clear that you were addressing another poster. You can call it laziness, you can call it an oversight, you can call it whatever you like, it was a misrepresentation of the truth. I don't care that you knew, I knew that you knew, what I am concerned about is others reading this who might not be so clear due to your laziness and omission. Lies of omission are still lies.

I am through with you hot shot! You cling to your ignorance like it is a velvet blanket, and your willingness to misrepresent the truth and thereby harm the integrity of the poster you are opposing is inexcusable. Earthcitizen, for all his passion and vehemence at least shows respect to those he opposes, and while he can be guilty of double speak, he does not attempt to harm the integrity of those he opposes.


So its my fault you didnt understand i wasnt talking to you, even though about 3cms above the quote i have said "oh and INTELINSIDE451". Maybe you should read the post fully before throwing around accusations....

"lies of ommision are still lies" hardly applies to the situation, seeing as i atleast attempted to accredit the quote to intelinside451.

I think we just MIGHT be getting weighted down in the tiny little details, my point is socialism is not evil in and of itself. The people in the system may corrupt it, but the system itself is not to blame.




[edit on 12-5-2010 by OLDMATE]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
And you keep pushing tyranny as if it is the only legitimate form of government...hell as if it is a legitimate form of government. Tyranny, totalitarianism, and the divine right doctrine are all political philosophies, and yet the exist. Listen, it is clear that freedom scares the hell out of you, I get it.


It seems you don't understand what tyranny is or you intentionally mispresent it to further your weak political views. I care not which is true!



Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
It is governments that created corporations, and now, as you are advocating them, they can't be undone, only regulated by that which can't undo what it did. If governments can't undo what they did, what makes you think they can regulate that mess they made?


I don't understand why you assume corporations must always be evil.

Nothing is written in stone my friend and yes governments created corporations but I don't understand why society needs to take radical steps to completly overhaul the entire economic system. Make no mistake about it, what you are advocating is "stone age" capitalism going back to the middle ages and before......................




Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Agree? With what "free market conservatism?" As if there is such a thing as free market liberalism, and that so called liberalism would be what, regulation? If a free market means no regulation, and it does, then what the hell makes you think a regulated market is a free market? A free market is a free market and not amount of double speak will make it free, but I bet you won't agree...


A regulated market is not a free market! You know that, I know that and many others know that. We don't need a free-market, we need a regulated market.

In a free-market system the strong survive and the weak purish. Its the rules of the jungle mentality. Quite barbarian if you ask me and certainly not of "european eloquence".





Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Then who is the government? Was it created by God, or People? Do you imagine that governments just create themselves?


From wikipedia, the free encyclopedia!

A government is the organization, machinery, or agency through
which a political unit exercises its authority, controls and administers public policy, and directs and controls the actions of its members or subjects


There are many forms of government such as a monarchy, dictatorship, democracy, republic, etc. Don't confuse communism, socialism, capitalism, fascism...etc, because these are economic systems and not political systems.

You can have a communist republic, such as the union of soviet "socialists" republic, a constitutional republic such as the usa, a socialist democracy such as many countries in europe, or a capitalist/socialist/communist dictatorship as is/was the case in many south american and african countries.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
An extension in the context you put it is merely the act of extending something, as in hands using a tool, and the tools would be an extension of those hands, as opposed to delaying. In this context, who do you think is doing the extension? You yourself admit it is the People who are extending and necessarily using government as a tool. But who owns this tool if not the People?


Your limited knowledge of political science at this point is becoming pathetically obvious or your just an anarchist hiding behind "free market" capitalism.

Anarchy is a political system in of itself. There is no shame admitting you want anarchy so why hide??



Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Stop pretending like it is I who advocates the government being a corporation, you know full well I don't, and further it was you of whom I just quoted earlier who has declared it "almost impossible" to ban corporations. Get it? Probably not....


I think most people would agree government and corporatism is a deadly combination when combined. I am not accusing you of being a *corporate america* fan because you have made it abundently clear.

My intent is/was to highlight the reasons we dont have *a government by the people, for the people* rather a corporate central bank owned america. A lot of other countries have a similar problem, especially in the western world.

We need to either create a new constitution or edit the old.



Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Semi-autonomous? More double speak? Do you just make up your own definitions as you go along? One is either autonomous or they are not. One who is autonomous is not ruled by external forces, and acts independently. There is no such thing as "semi-autonomous", so if a government is going to be answerable to the People they can not be autonomous. Get it?


Semi-autonomous in that government is above the people but also an extension of the people and corporations.



Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Call it what you want, it is tyranny you are advocating and under tyranny the People will surely suffer. People do not co-operate in order to suffer, quite the opposite, they co-operate so they don't have to suffer. If the decisions made by such co-operation bring about suffering, I assure you that co-operation will cease to exist.


Your equating subjugation to tyranny. The two do not necessarily go together in the same package. If people have a say in government, as they should, then government will listen and respect people. If people are sheep then its the people's fault more than governement's fault.

I am not double-speaking at all friend, it seems you have LIMITED understanding of government and political science. You want everything in *black and white* terms, but we are living in an increasingly complex world, so what was true 200 years ago cannot be true today. One must adapt or fall behind!


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
My friend, it is always good to hear from you, and you are always welcome to disagree with me, but until we can agree to agree, there will be no agreement. Take care and God Bless.


I hold no ill-feelings toward you because we are not enemies, rather we are political opponents with different views.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Thank you, you always bring a sound argument. Carry on.

I have stated that in a perfect world socialism would work. In a perfect world.

Sorry, no perfect world out there. Criminals in power use it, just as they use supposed capitalism. More like cronie fascist capitalism.


Yes we don't live in a perfect world but how does that justify anarchism?

When your car breaks down do you abandon it alongside the highway or do you take it to a garage to have it fixed? Government has broken down, government needs a fixin!



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Alright, I have to admit JPZ, if everyone had the control that people think socialism contends they do, there system "could" work.

They just forget that to institute their system, a control parameter would be needed.

They keep forgetting that control in any individual or entity ALWAYS leads to tyranny.

They think that any control on the capitalist component is wrong, but they think someone on the socialist side would be any different. Just because a socialist is a socialist, does that make them different than a capitalist? Of course not, but that is what is pushed as an agenda.

Control is control, NO MATTER who has it.

Does anyone get this ABSOLUTE FACT, yet?


Your making the same mistake JPZ is/was making in equating subjugation to tyranny. The terms are not synonymous in any way, shape or form.

You can have subjugation without tyranny or subjugation with tyranny. A lot depends on how knowledgable and/or active the subjects are. If they demand more they will likely get more. If they demand less, they will likely get less.

Think of it as haggling!



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


This is a great point, like JPZ has pointed out, monarchs had they're heads cut off when the public was incised enough about an issue, the same applies to the modern world....If the people get together and demand something, the government will 9/10 times give them what they want.

So people, FIND YOUR VOICE! speak out against corrupt politicians and the like, for this is surely the only way to, as EarthCitizen07 says, have a government "by the people, for the people".



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 

Ever heard of the Hegelian Dialectic? The premise confers Problem Reaction Solution...

The same people who caused the problem are now filling the airwaves with the news that we failed and we need something "NEW".

Yea, like a tighter noose around our neck.

Read "Brotherhood of Darkness" by Stan Montieth

"None Dare Call It Conspiracy" by Gary Allen,

"Tragedy and Hope" by Professor Carroll Quigley, Bill Clinton's Georgetown Mentor.
Try to get a complete version of this at a University Library as the the original plates of the first half of the book were destroyed by the FreeMasons before it's second printing.

Then read "Timeline of the Rothschilds" by DB Smith and A Hitchcock



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