Socialist I Am Calling You Out!

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posted on May, 7 2010 @ 04:12 AM
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I am sick and tired of all the socialist here showing thier utter ignorance and just parroting the crap they hear on the nightly news or read on some blog or website..

If socialism is so great then what do you have against making it all voluntary? Are you afraid that you won't be able to steal enough funds by force to support your pet social programs? Seriously if you all start promoting voluntarism I will have no problem with you. As long you you don't you are promoting theft under color of law.

And also quit blaming Capitalism for the failing economies for god sake do a little research. You all have been duped by the media. We haven't had any semblance of capitalism in over half a century. In fact what you call capitalism is in fact socialism/fascism! They have convinced you thier socialism that is failing big time is capitalism.

Most of you agree we live in a Socialist Democracy ( even if it is illegitimate) yet you somehow blame capitalism for the economic meltdown. This goes for other countries also. All those countries are socialist yet blame capitalism for thier demise... hello...!

Capitalism is free markets where people have a choice and government does not intervene to give anyone an unfair advantage under the guise of protecting the consumer. Markets regulate themselves by the quality and service they provide. If quality and service suck or are corrupt people take thier business elsewhere. The only way you can stay in business is to provide a quality product or service as opposed to the socialist government eliminating your competition through regulation and allowing you to stay in business when you should have failed. Like the Big financial institutions they bailed out.

Socialism/fascism is where government intervenes with all kinds of regulation claiming to be protecting consumers from unfair market practices when in fact they are really protecting markets for the politically connected Corps and elites. Like the banks for instance they have a monopoly on the currency and finance. Which is why the economy is melting down. Try to start a bank and you have to jump through hoops and get all kinds of licenses etc. and agree to all thier rules and regulations via the Federal Reserve Bank. So there is no fair competition.

So can we discuss this in a meaningful way or will this just turn into another left vs right ignorance fest?




posted on May, 7 2010 @ 04:36 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


Capitalism, socialism, communism, who cares.. No one wants to accept the blame, they all say we didn't know what was gonna happen, but how can you not know what was gonna happen lol

Free market failed, no rules and regulations failed, now stop the wimping and crying.. Come up with something new.

The bailout was the inheritance of communism, and that didn't work is well..

General motors said they are paying back the Tax payer's money, but last time I investigated that claim I realized that they are paying the Tax payer's money with Tax payer's money..

Failed government, failed policies, failed system.. Why did a mistake have to occur in order for the to learn> ? Didn't generations after generations lived in the past>? Didn't they make mistakes? Aren't those mistakes in the books? History books? Why are we not learning?


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posted on May, 7 2010 @ 04:43 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 



Free market failed, no rules and regulations failed, now stop the wimping and crying.. Come up with something new.


This is bullsh!t! Stop repeating this media crap. Name a free market that failed? All the markets are heavily regulated, there are no free markets! Free markets are proven successful through out history. WE DON'T HAVE FREE MARKETS TODAY!!! This is the kind of thing I am talking about people just repeat BS they hear or read somewhere without any knowledge of what they are talking about... Sigh!





[edit on 7-5-2010 by hawkiye]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by hawkiye So can we discuss this in a meaningful way or will this just turn into another left vs right ignorance fest?


Seems like it's on that track already. Nicely done




posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 





This is bullsh!t! Stop repeating this media crap. Name a free market that failed? All the markets are heavily regulated, there are no free markets! Free markets are proven successful through out history. WE DON'T HAVE FREE MARKETS TODAY!!! This is the kind of thing I am talking about people just repeat BS they hear or read somewhere without any knowledge of what they are talking about... Sigh!

lol

Free market doesn't mean free, just like freedom doesn't mean freedom, just like freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of speech..

There is no such thing as literally free market, ofcurs it is regulated, but not as much as other markets..



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:20 AM
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Sometimes the intervening of the government is necessary. The very thing your saying is awful is the very thing that gave me the right as a women to vote. It made illegal for you to treat another person different based on the color of their skin.


Markets regulate themselves by the quality and service they provide.


The reason all this regulation talk is going on right now is because the services Goldman Sachs were selling were lies to people. They were betting on investments to fail.

In every business you have to have over site because if you don't this crap happens.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by hawkiye
 



lol

Free market doesn't mean free, just like freedom doesn't mean freedom, just like freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of speech..

There is no such thing as literally free market, ofcurs it is regulated, but not as much as other markets..



Are you really that ignorant? ... sigh! Sorry but there is no point in responding to that kind of ignorance...

I guess it is illustrative of many socialist, won't study history, cannot fathom a modicum of reason and logic, and just repeat media BS like a mantra... Maybe it's the fluoride in the water I don't know. I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I was hoping someone from thier point of view could carry on a half way intelligent conversation.

Well maybe some will surprise us...

[edit on 7-5-2010 by hawkiye]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by VintageEnvy
Sometimes the intervening of the government is necessary. The very thing your saying is awful is the very thing that gave me the right as a women to vote. It made illegal for you to treat another person different based on the color of their skin.


Markets regulate themselves by the quality and service they provide.


The reason all this regulation talk is going on right now is because the services Goldman Sachs were selling were lies to people. They were betting on investments to fail.

In every business you have to have over site because if you don't this crap happens.


You are absolutely wrong. Goldman Sachs is not operating in a free market. They reason they are able to get away with that crap was not because of lack of oversight but because of regulation protecting thier market for them. Remember Too big to fail? BS!!! if that were a truly free market Goldman and all of them would have been out of business years ago without government to prop them up and quash thier competition.

GOVERNMENT NEVER PROVIDES OVERSIGHT! let me repeat that; GOVERNMENT NEVER PROVIDES OVERSIGHT! All they do is provide an unfair advantage to their cronies like Goldman and then the government uses our money to bail them out when they screw it up.

Why is this so hard to understand for people?

The only oversight you need is people voting with thier wallets period! Stop believing the lies that government is protecting you. THEY ARE NEVER PROTECTING YOU! They are only PROTECTING THEMSELVES AND THE POLITICALLY CONNECTED's INTERESTS. The sooner people realize that the sooner we can get on with building a better society based on free choice and voluntarism!



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


I haven't heard anything intelligent from you yet, all I have read is you complaining..

OK tell us what free market are you talking about..

What Capitalism are you talking about?

What Socialism are you talking about?

Be specific, because every system has evolved, even Democracy..

So tell us which one are you talking about, what are you talking about, because your trying to waste my time..



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


Then your thread is gonna crash and burn because everything they said made complete sense. Here's an example of what they were saying:

Free speech..... we have free speech to a point. I can say I hate babies and I wish they would all be sent to be eaten by snakes but, I can't run into a theater and yell 'fire'.

Where is the logic missing in that sentence?

You said there was no point in responding to them but you did it anyway and just to insult, nice. Stay classy op.


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posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
I am sick and tired of all the socialist here showing thier utter ignorance and just parroting the crap they hear on the nightly news or read on some blog or website..


And quite frankly I'm sick of people who clearly aren't educated parroting the stuff they hear on the nightly news or read on some blog or website.

Do you have any idea what Socialism is or how it really works? Have you ever been to a Socialist country? Protip mate I've lived in one all my life and it's great. I'd never live anywhere else because I already live in the greatest place on Earth. It's a paradise here.

Your leaders aren't socialist. They're corporatist. You aren't becoming a Socialist country. You're becoming a Kleptocracy.



Here is a real Socialists perspective. Enjoy and learn.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 



You're the one who claimed free markets have failed, name one? You claimed freedom doesn't mean freedom, so explain what it means then? I explained capitalism and socialism in my OP read it again and maybe it will sink in.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:45 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 





Free market doesn't mean free, just like freedom doesn't mean freedom, just like freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of speech..


Black markets are in this age of heavily regulated "free markets", the only free market around. Black markets are not regulated. That they exist only goes to show that free markets can exist without regulation.

As to the remarks about freedom not meaning freedom, and freedom of speech not meaning freedom of speech, this is nothing more than doublespeak, as was, of course, your remark about free markets.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by VintageEnvy
 





Free speech..... we have free speech to a point. I can say I hate babies and I wish they would all be sent to be eaten by snakes but, I can't run into a theater and yell 'fire'.


Yes, you can run into a theater and yell fire, and if it is a crowded theater and you incite a panic that causes others harm, you can be expected to be held responsible for this. Your freedom of speech was never halted, but your abrogation and derogation of other peoples rights did not give you the right to create such panic, and harm. If you were to walk into a burning theater and calmly explain the situation, to one row at a time, and because of this saved people, you would be hailed a hero, and rightfully so. Which would you, given the choice, choose?



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by belial259
 


Oh please do tell us what country of paradise you live in so we can look at the facts of that country and see of they measure up to your description. Yeah some people can live wonderfully in socialism but they do it at the expense of others whom they steal from under color of law to support their lifestyle. But I would tender a bet that your country is not quite the paradise you make it out to be.

And yes our country is quite socialist with many of the same programs all the European socialist democracies have. But you are correct that it is also corporatist/fascist but so are yours.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by VintageEnvy
 





Free speech..... we have free speech to a point. I can say I hate babies and I wish they would all be sent to be eaten by snakes but, I can't run into a theater and yell 'fire'.


Yes, you can run into a theater and yell fire, and if it is a crowded theater and you incite a panic that causes others harm, you can be expected to be held responsible for this. Your freedom of speech was never halted, but your abrogation and derogation of other peoples rights did not give you the right to create such panic, and harm. If you were to walk into a burning theater and calmly explain the situation, to one row at a time, and because of this saved people, you would be hailed a hero, and rightfully so. Which would you, given the choice, choose?


If there was indeed a real fire like your scenario eludes to, then I could go in and yell fire. So, I choose yell fire to be more efficient in getting people out of there. I have no idea what your talking about at this point.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
I explained capitalism and socialism in my OP read it again and maybe it will sink in.


Your definition is wrong. Please do some research.


where government intervenes with all kinds of regulation claiming to be protecting consumers from unfair market practices when in fact they are really protecting markets for the politically connected Corps and elites


What you're talking about here is what is termed "A Banana Republic"

Banana Republic


Socialism is a political philosophy that encompasses various theories of economic organization based on either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources. A more comprehensive definition of socialism is an economic system that directly maximizes use-values as opposed to exchange-values and has transcended commodity production and wage labor, along with a corresponding set of social and economic relations, including the organization of economic institutions, the method of resource allocation and post-monetary calculation based on some physical magnitude; often implying a method of compensation based on individual merit, the amount of labor expended or individual contribution.

Socialists generally share the view that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through a system of exploitation. This in turn creates an unequal society, that fails to provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potential, and does not utilise technology and resources to their maximum potential nor in the interests of the public.


If American's wanted to be socialist they'd need jobs, and that obviously isn't going to happen. Can you offer me an example of any part of that country that adheres to any of the principals in the quote above? Any at all?

I bet you can't. Because your society is very unequal. The wage and wealth distribution is very slanted toward the top 10% and the other 90% are just chattle for the elite.


Large inequalities of income in a society have often been regarded as divisive and corrosive, and it is common knowledge that in rich societies the poor have shorter lives and suffer more from almost every social problem. This groundbreaking book, based on thirty years' research, demonstrates that more unequal societies are bad for almost everyone within them - the well-off as well as the poor. The remarkable data the book lays out and the measures it uses are like a spirit level which we can hold up to compare the conditions of different societies. The differences revealed, even between rich market democracies, are striking.Almost every modern social and environmental problem - ill-health, lack of community life, violence, drugs, obesity, mental illness, long working hours, big prison populations - is more likely to occur in a less equal society. The book goes to the heart of the apparent contrast between the material success and social failings of many modern societies. "The Spirit Level" does not simply provide a key to diagnosing our ills. It tells us how to shift the balance from self-interested 'consumerism' to a friendlier and more collaborative society. It shows a way out of the social and environmental problems which beset us and opens up a major new approach to improving the real quality of life, not just for the poor but for everyone. It is, in its conclusion, an optimistic book, which should revitalise politics and provide a new way of thinking about how we organise human communities.


The spirit level

I found this book to be very good and I highly recommend it.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
Oh please do tell us what country of paradise you live in so we can look at the facts of that country and see of they measure up to your description.


The Commonwealth of Australia.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by VintageEnvy
 





If there was indeed a real fire like your scenario eludes to, then I could go in and yell fire. So, I choose yell fire to be more efficient in getting people out of there. I have no idea what your talking about at this point.


Of course you don't, because you do not want to have to accept the responsibility for the damage you cause. The yelling fire in a crowded theater analogy is not used to make clear that freedom of speech is not freedom of speech, but rather to make clear that there are real consequences to your actions. If, as you claim, if you ran into a crowded theater that was on fire, and simply yelled fire, the ensuing panic could easily cause more damage, than if you were to simply stay outside and pray for them. If you truly can not understand this, then you are precisely one of those people the O.P. is calling out.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by belial259
 


i agree with you. labels are thrown around strictly for emotional appeal.
capitalism is so deeply rooted in america, that this country becoming a socialist country is so remote it's laughable. just yesterday an amendment to the finance legislation, that would have broken up the 7 banks who control 63% of the entire GDP of america, failed, because not enough senators considered them to be, too big to fail. obviously the were coerced, bribed, or threatened, simply because that would have been the most logical and reasonable thing to do.





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