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Burqa ban is 'un-Australian' say Muslims

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posted on May, 8 2010 @ 12:39 AM
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A lot of comments on this thread make me ashamed to be Australian....


And for what its worth, the PM has said it will not be banned....the right wing opposition are calling for it....

This anti muslim crap really makes me sick....too many people have drunk the Kool-aid.




posted on May, 8 2010 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by jeanvaljean
 


I understand what you are talking about, and I understood what Riley was talking about.. But what she said shouldn't be an excuse for the banning of Burqah, and I know she doesn't agree with the banning also..

I just don't want her discomfort to be an excuse for the banning of Burqah, because I feel uncomfortable looking at girls with their breast exposed.. I just can't focus on eye contact with those balloons being exposed lol, you know what I mean..



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by benoni
 


Yeah let's all hold hands and play under a sunny rainbow of love and peace....


Unless people of this country stand up and make a point to tell politicians that we want a multicultural society with out all of the religous baggage that comes with it we are going to have another social problem just like in the UK....

And for every news story you see here saying that Muslim women choose to wear the Burqa of their own free will you will find many a police file and bloq stating that women have been harmed / abused for not wearing them....

Plz come to Australia..... But leave your social / religous baggage behind b4 you leave



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by benoni
 



This anti muslim crap really makes me sick....too many people have drunk the Kool-aid.



Au contraire my sanctimonious dear

We are EMBRACING the Muslim culture, as you see, if you scroll back just a short way


We are going to make a statement of the burqua

The Burqua is going to become synonymous with Aussie-ism !

We aren't going to sit by and watch those poor, downtrodde muslim females wearing it on their own ! Oh NO !

All Aussies --- men, women, grandparents, kids, even dogs ---- are going to embrace and WEAR the burqua

AND in doing so, we are going to redefine the burqua before the world !

Shopping-burquas, office-burquas, beach-burquas, McDonald's burquas !

So slip off to Spotlight and grab yourself some fabric (and support a 3rd world nation, because that's all you CAN support these days, from Oz Land of Outsourced Everything ) --- and simply plop the fabric over your head --- cut a slit for your eyes --- and decorate to suit your own individual taste

Then grab some thongs/flip-flop --- a plastic bag over your arm --- and away you go as an example of the Pro-Muslim Being You Clearly Wish to Portray

It's going to catch-on, this Burqua Brigade

And WOW --- what a boost for Multiculturalism, huh ? Yay !


The benefits are AWESOME, too !

That burqua will provide you with a FREE house --- FREE money --- FREE education and allowances --- FREEDOM from having to be stripped naked at airport via the paedophile-scanners too ! Because you will be regarded as a muslim, in your Spotlight Burqua

and as we know, the Puppets-Ruled-By-Israel-Purporting-To-Be-Aussie-Politicians .............. justified those naked scanners by claiming Muslim Terrorists plan to bomb our planes ! Right ?

Yet Muslims are NOT required to endure airport naked body-scanners !

So how's THAT for a joke ?

And as a burqua-wearer ---- YOU TOO can have the last laugh and sail past the queues of Aussies forced to be scanned. Because as a burqua-wearer, you are excused. LOL

So as you see, you dear Muslim-Defender ---- Aussies are going to roll with it in the spirit of If You Can't Beat Them, Then Join Them

And you're going to have to scour high and low for Aussies to preach to

because the Aussies will be dressed in the all-purpose, benefits-bestowing burquas too .... all over the land

And you'll be left desperate for someone to publicly defend

Here's a hint: maybe now your 'defence of Islam' stuff has been made redundant by millions of burqua-embracing Aussies --- you can switch tack and start defending the few Aussies still wearing shorts and thongs ? Or maybe you can defend red-heads ? Or rich people ?



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by Dock9
 


You should be a politician, where did you learn all these rhetorics?

What you are saying doesn't add anything to the discussion.. And no one knows whether you are joking or not.. Or being sarcastic..

Please, for the sake of ATS, not BTS.. Write something which doesn't waste 1 minute of someone's life..

For example, you say Aussies should join people who wear Burqahs, if you can't beat them join them.. WTF are trying to beat?

Are you kidding me?

You are trying to beat Burqah lol..

Reminds me of those statements which American politicians make, liiiiiike, they hate our freedom lol or or war on snakes lol



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 01:44 AM
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If you want to make a statement become a muslim get a sex change and weara burqa, then you may find it is ok after all.
But then again you could not become a muslim not have a sex change wear a Burqa and no one would know , you werent a Muslim or hadnt had a sex change.
It is said to become a muslim you only have to proclaim it, so we all cannot be proved or not to being muslim.
Therfore if you weara Burqa in a bank you can only be charged with impersonating a woman?
It cannot be proved you are not a muslim?
And alls exes are supposed to have equal rights so a muslim man should be a ble to wear a Burqa?



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 




Lying to push your agenda won't help because lying can easily be expose, hence the above statement..
You are here on ATS, you can't see my eyes, and you are saying it is impossible for you to communicate..
Is that the only wrong you could find for this religious expression?
You could have said, well they can rob a bank, that would have been a million time better excuse..



My comment is straight forward, your comment was straight lie..
You can't communicate without eye contact, you say it is impossible for you.. I'm not gonna defend calling you a liar..
If it is your culture to see someone in the eye, then be it. Just don't claim it is impossible for you to communicate without eye contact..
That is bullox..


Hey oozyism.
I responded to the part of your post I bolded, because someone who understood the point Riley was making wouldn't have written the two posts I quoted above, unless they set out to deliberately distort her words.


I understand what you are talking about, and I understood what Riley was talking about.


It would seem that you 'misunderstood' on purpose, then.

I'm not having a go at you, oozyism. It's obvious you feel strongly about the subject. But is it an excuse to be disingenuous and insulting to a poster to boot?
Peace.



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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Fact: Hiding your face is illegal, therefore the burqa is subverting the law. Very simple logic. You don't like the law, then break it and face the consequences or go somewhere where it doesn't apply. Very simple.


Can you point me to a law which states that hiding your face is illegal in Australia please?

Smigs



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by benoni
 


That is actually the commonsense view, you cannot in a democracy ban a minority from wearing certain clothing. Otherwise there would be no punks, no Jewish wear, no Sikh turbans, no Indian clothing, and so on. What is a greater obstacle to integration to a Jewish man than wearing a religious garment and black hat, and growing a large beard and side burns? He is very unlikely to get a job in a good establishment like that, yes that is actually discriminatory and against the law in almost all western countries, but still it is a fact he will not land a job like that. He is more likely to be pushing his own private enterprise as a result, I noticed in London property auctions quite a number of Orthodox Jews, because they cannot easily land publically available jobs, and must push their own enterprise in their own strict circles.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by jeanvaljean
 


Here's my stance, when you write something, especially in a forum, you have much time to think about what you are saying.. She stated she feels uncomfortable without eye contact...

I know what she is talking about, but at the same time I know it wasn't true, hence she doesn't feel uncomfortable talking to me. Well you can say she feels uncomfortable talking to me due to all the insults I'm throwing, but I have seen her around ATS quiet often, and her discomfort is not shown..

That being said, calling her a liar was a stretch, but for my sake, there needed to be a stretch since it was used in the context of "banning an expression"..

That I felt was an insult to me, to my sisters who cover themselves, to my mom who covers herself. I live in NZ and I feel I'm too close to it, so I take it seriously..



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


You were trolling and deliberately took me out of context in order to be abusive. You cannot use your sisters or mother to justify it either (aka hiding behind their skirts) as I did not insult anyone who wore one. I just explained why communicating with someone with a covered face is difficult and awkward. I thought it important to do this for the sake of denying ignorance and the ridiculous assumption that it's always a race thing (you implied I was racist as well).

You ignored most of my original post in order to insult me.

It was really very blatent so the least you could do is man up to it and apoligise instead of coming up with lame excuses for acting like a jerk.

As for exposed breasts making you uncomfortable.. it is against the law to expose breasts in australia except for designated places (nudist beaches) and there are warning signs. If you are talking about exposed cleavage.. I promise I won't go to any islamic countries and show it off.

I'm wondering.. what is the meaning behind the gagged woman in your avatar? Is that against female oppression or for it?

[edit on 9-5-2010 by riley]



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by Smiggle

Can you point me to a law which states that hiding your face is illegal in Australia please?

Smigs


If a police officer pulls over a driver, and asks to see a driving license, he has every right to check that the face of the driver matches the picture on the license.

Likewise banks now insist that motorcyclists remove their helmets when entering a bank. Every bank has a sign on the entrance door telling you that.

There are many instances where a person wearing a mask or disguise may be arrested on suspicion.
At the very least you could be charged with failing to follow the directions of a police officer, or failing to provide proof of identity.

Any security guard can ask you to show your face on demand, and if you do not, restrain you until the police arrive.

So yes, there are laws that can be used against you if you refuse to show your face to a police officer when asked (told) to do so.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by Silver Shadow

Originally posted by Smiggle

Can you point me to a law which states that hiding your face is illegal in Australia please?

Smigs


If a police officer pulls over a driver, and asks to see a driving license, he has every right to check that the face of the driver matches the picture on the license.

Likewise banks now insist that motorcyclists remove their helmets when entering a bank. Every bank has a sign on the entrance door telling you that.

There are many instances where a person wearing a mask or disguise may be arrested on suspicion.
At the very least you could be charged with failing to follow the directions of a police officer, or failing to provide proof of identity.

Any security guard can ask you to show your face on demand, and if you do not, restrain you until the police arrive.

So yes, there are laws that can be used against you if you refuse to show your face to a police officer when asked (told) to do so.


And while Australian's abide by these laws or suffer the consequences, Muslims do not, and no one will force them to do it out of fear of being called "racist."

Political correctness has gotten out of hand. It is unfair that they get special treatment, that is racism against Australians. And dont give me that "religious" excuse, if they didnt like our laws they shouldnt have come here. Religion has no place in our Australian Law anyway.

This is social terrorism. People are afraid to ask them to remove their head gear in secure places, or talk about it, because they dont want to be called racist so they are living in fear and terror.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by Smiggle
Can you point me to a law which states that hiding your face is illegal in Australia please?

Smigs


You are looking at it from the wrong angle. It is illegal to go into certain institutions dressed in a manner that makes self-identification impossible. The burqa is a piece of clothing that only exposes the eyes, which means they do not allow the person wearing it to be identified by camera.

If you fancy the idea, you can go to the bank dressed as a vampire. As long as your face is clearly visible (might need to hide the fangs) then it is fine. You being dressed in this way is not threatening the law that the majority is bound to.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by fatdad
i bet if you tryed to walk about in a ski mask all day shopping etc. you would be arrested ... so whats the difference to wearing a burka?.. freedom to wear what you want or just two fingers up to the government and everybody else who have to live by basic security laws.. if they dont like it they can always go live in a muslim country...


Amen.

Doesn't anyone else find it odd how they are quick to label anything that is against their religion as being "un-Australian"?

What about their calls and expectations of sharia law in Australia? That's as un-Australian as you can get.

Or if you want to go further..how about their non-existent criticism of their own kind who were busted plotting attacks against Australia, from within Australia?

They were silent when their muslim brothers were being raided for terrorism plots.

But of course, that wasn't un-Australian, that was following allahs teachings.
Thing's are only un-Australian when they want to deceive us.

It's a modern day trojan horse.


At the end of the day, if they don't like the way of life in Australia, Australian customs and traditions(which they don't have to conform to btw), then they can pack their crap up and hop on the next boat out of here, the same way they came here.

Don't like it? Get out.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by Silver Shadow
 


No, there is no actual law I am aware of, though if you could point me to the actual law and text that you called' Fact' and then wrote about, I'd appreciate it.

Smigs



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by riley
 


Out of context? ou feel uncomfortable talking to someone who you can't see:

I say, you don't feel uncomfortable talking on ATS:

You say OUT OF CONTEXT?


AND BY exposed breasts, I wasn't talking fully, I was talking about this:
Breasts

Yeah as a man I like to see more of those, but seriously I do..

My point is still as it was, you said what you wanted to say which turned out to be flawed, and in context of this thread seemed as if you wanted the flawed argument to be the excuse to ban Burqah. But I already stated you don't want it to be banned, that is why I never accused of such, I simply said, that you lied to support the other side of the Burqah fence..

[edit on 9-5-2010 by oozyism]



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 

Hi, oozyism.
I would like to share something with you, if you don't mind.
This is my experience of crossing a border:

I inherited my arabic looks from my father. I am not a Muslim, in fact I'm an atheist.
I came to Ireland many years ago, by ferry and then by bus, from a European country. The bus was packed with Irish people and foreigners; some of those came from the same country I did. Everyone looked Caucasian, except me. The customs officers boarded the bus and checked papers. Guess who was held on the bus for an hour, while everyone else was allowed to disembark immediately?
The officer came up to me and before even looking at my ID, which was in order, he stared straight into my face. Then, he took my ID and told me to wait. I was finally allowed through, without a word of explanation. This, to me, is an example of racial profiling.

I have a female friend whom I love dearly; she is fair-skinned with blond hair and a Muslim; she comes from a Muslim community in Russia. She doesn't wear the burqa, or anything that would identify her as a Muslim. If we were walking down the street together and had the misfortune of running into some pinhead who thinks that all Arabs are Muslims and all Muslims are terrorists, I don't need to tell you who the target of his irrational hatred would be.
If my friend decided to wear the burqa, of her own free will, I would support her all the way. It is her choice. But here's the thing: I would find it really difficult to communicate with her. I have never met anyone wearing a burqa and neither have my Irish friends. They are an open-minded and tolerant bunch, yet they would feel awkward too, for the same reasons I would.
If my friend fell off an apple tree and landed on her head and suddenly decided to go around wearing the helmet Riley's avatar is wearing, I would find it just as difficult to hold a conversation with her.
I need to see someone's face when I talk to them in person.
However, I feel very comfortable communicating with you in writing, even though I know, from reading your posts on different threads, that you can be quite disrespectful at times.
In this post, I have made the same points Riley did. Am I a liar when I say I can't communicate properly with someone wearing a burqa? Am I racially profiling a woman and impeding her freedom of religious expression when I say that my Irish friends would find it difficult too?
Peace.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by jeanvaljean
 





In this post, I have made the same points Riley did. Am I a liar when I say I can't communicate properly with someone wearing a burqa? Am I racially profiling a woman and impeding her freedom of religious expression when I say that my Irish friends would find it difficult too?
Peace.


OK I hear you.

Once again you misunderstand the belief of those who wear buqah's. Let me explain, the main reason why someone wears Burqah's is to not mix with men in general.

A girl doesn't need to cover her self around girls. In fact their belief even allows them to view each others breasts, as long as men are not present.

When you see a girl in the street wearing a Burqah, and if you want to become friends with her, talk to her. Some people feel uncomfortable talking to strangers, this is the same. Until you know her, that is when comfort comes. Burqah allows girls to show their character first, before their other amazingly beautiful features.

Think about it.

If you are Riley, and Riley sees a girl wearing a Burqah, what is she gonna do? Is she gonna go talk to her, know her, her character, before getting together in a comfortable environment and further her friendship with her?

And if you are Riley, and Riley sees a girl she doesn't know, without a Burqah, what is she gonna do? Talk to her, get to know her, and then further her relationship when she feels comfortable around her.

Or is she gonna completely ignore her because both the Burqah lady, and the non Burqah lady are strangers? And as I said, some people, many people actually feel uncomfortable talking to strangers.

If you are in a business environment, and you have to talk to the Burqah lady, then please it is your job to do so. It is good customer service, if you feel uncomfortable, it doesn't matter.

Why I called her a liar, it has much to do with her stance on these issues. I have discussed issues with Riley in previous threads. And I know her stance. Then when she pulls this one out of her pocket I have no choice but view her as a liar, especially in the context of this thread.

I have spoken to people behind walls, I have spoken to people behind telephone, I have spoken to blind people. Discomfort, nope, from my point of view, discomfort only exist if you want it to exist. Heck some people can't stand handi caps, that is because they don't want to.

Some people feel discomfort around little people, it is because they want to feel discomfort, or that their brains have adapted to an environment which allows them to feel discomfort..

Once again, the reason why I said what I said to Riley has to do with her stance on these issues, I'm not a mind reader, but I have been around long enough to know the Bullsh1t claims some people make in order to support an argument, or an action, or an idea ..



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by riley
 


Out of context? ou feel uncomfortable talking to someone who you can't see:

I say, you don't feel uncomfortable talking on ATS:

You say OUT OF CONTEXT?

Okay I'll be more specific.

YOU CHANGED WHAT I SAID. Saying you took me out of context was an gross under estimation and I was being too generous. You took one line from what I said and pretended that was all that I said and even accused me of saying things I did not say. So who's the liar?



Or is she gonna completely ignore her because both the Burqah lady, and the non Burqah lady are strangers? And as I said, some people, many people actually feel uncomfortable talking to strangers.

You cannot befriend someone who has the whole face covered. The practice actually segregates them from the community. To some people the full face burka screams loud and clear "don't approach me I'm off limits you aren't even permitted to lay eyes on me". If you want to discuss this honesty (instead of trying to make me seem anti-islamic) please enlighten us and explain why someone needs to cover their entire face including eyes. Modesty is not a logical explanation or else muslim men would be required to hide their faces as well. Does the Quran actually say that the female face and eyes are immodest and too shameful to show?

I'm talking about the full faced burka not the head scarf btw. The head scarf allows for social interaction. Cultural acceptence occurs only when there is cultural undertanding. Here is your chance to teach us all about it.

How does one make friends with a woman with her face covered? Whats the proper etiquette?

[edit on 9-5-2010 by riley]



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