Burqa ban is 'un-Australian' say Muslims

reply to post by Chadwickus



Sounds like a great way to protest. People should start wearing masks in public, and bulky costumes that hide what they might desire to conceal.


If Muslims are allowed to hide their identity, why shouldn't everyone else?

See how the government likes that.

I'd had to laugh at the title.

The burka is un Australian.

I think that countries all over the world have pretty much woken up to the fact that there is massive immigration from Islamic countries. The countries that are receiving the immigration from the Islamic world do not want to import the backward values that some Muslims seem to exhibit.

So, if you want to wear a burka live in one of the Islamic countries where women need to hide their bodies.

If you want to live in the rest of the world, loosen up a little.

Well, I had to giggle a bit here from this report from SBS news:
www.sbs.com.au...

A Liberal senator's call for a ban on body-covering burqas has sparked calls for budgie-smugglers to be outlawed.
"I personally find them quite offensive."

A nice shot at Mr Abbott.

The head-to-toe covering was emerging as the preferred disguise of bandits and "n'er do wells", the South Australian senator wrote on his blog...

God for a moment there I thought he was talking about that Aussie Ned Kelly ...

But neither Ms Gillard nor Mr Abbott said their parties proposed banning the garment worn by some Islamic women.

I dont think this is anywhere near an agenda for Australia, except that they needed to put something on the front page of the papers. I'd be more concerned what they didn't put on the front page that day...
... the way Kevin is acting he would retract it 3 months before it ended up in the Summary Offenses Act anyway ...



[edit on 7/5/10 by Smiggle]

Originally posted by belial259

Originally posted by Myrddin Wyllt
No I don't want a country like theirs, neither do the ones escaping those countries.... obviously, they want a change to their sh!tty lives, and that's why they are escaping to a better world and trying to escape those prejudices, but when going to live in another country they must abide by that countries rules and laws, as voted for by the populous of that country, whether it affects their religion or not, otherwise go to a country which does follow and believe your ideals!

So we've had a vote on this then? I don't recall there being a referendum on the issue. I don't even recall seeing any of the parties running with this on their platform. I don't even recall hearing any of them talk about it. You know why? Because it would be political suicide.

And it certainly will be for Senator Cory Bernardi, who posted about this issue on his blog. The full extent of "democratic" involvement in this issue.

There is currently no rule or law that says they cannot wear Burkas. There has merely been a call for one.

So where exactly do you get off telling me to go to another country?

No, no vote yet, no referendum yet, and as it is not yet a law, that's why it is open for discussion, and that's why this issue is being discussed..... duh! If you do not open it up for debate, then what is the point, let everyone do whatever they want, without taking the public's opinion into account? That's why LAWS are passed!

I wasn't telling you to go to another country I was merely stating that if someone does not like the restrictions put on them in a country for their religious beliefs, then they should go to a country that does have their core fundamental principles in practice! Instead of screaming about their "minority" rights all the bloody time, they should just go somewhere that follows their ideals and stop forcing us non-muslims to "cow" down to them using the "racist" garb all the time.

There is no tolerance in their countries, tow the line or else...... again double standards, we have to accommodate them, yet in their countries we also have to bow down to their rules, hipocrisy again, some muslims want to force their beliefs into our society, and if it starts with the Burka, (Sharia Law is already here in the UK and the US,) what next, 12 year olds marrying 60 year olds in London, Sydney, New York! In the name of Islam? WTF!

Do you really know the implications of what you are trying to defend! This could set a precedent for any muslim ideology of the future! "In the 2010 Burka case........blah blah blah", then the muslims get their way, you really are lost in this!

reply to post by Myrddin Wyllt


Presently though, its not even on a political agenda to be discussed at all - it was, as Tony Abbott expressed, a politician exercising his right to Freedom of Speech on his blog. Neither party are thinking of banning the burqa. I think the papers heading over being 'un-Australian'.

LOL!

A burka ban is not un-Australian, what they mean is 'not our way'.

A burka ban is humane.

Originally posted by Myrddin Wyllt
Instead of screaming about their "minority" rights all the bloody time, they should just go somewhere that follows their ideals and stop forcing us non-muslims to "cow" down to them using the "racist" garb all the time.

Oh you poor fellow. You have my deepest sympathies.

There is no tolerance in their countries, tow the line or else...... again double standards, we have to accommodate them, yet in their countries we also have to bow down to their rules, hipocrisy again, some muslims want to force their beliefs into our society, and if it starts with the Burka, (Sharia Law is already here in the UK and the US,) what next, 12 year olds marrying 60 year olds in London, Sydney, New York! In the name of Islam? WTF!

So you're suggesting they should bow down to us or else? Tow the line and fit into our society?

And we're at threat of being overtaken by Muslims and Sharia law? They want to force their beliefs on our society and you have to cow down to them wearing that "racist" garb?

Yes ok I see what you're talking about now. I apologise I thought you were profiling but I can see these concerns are legitimate for someone like yourself.

And who knows these Muslims could come to work pretending to be one of their relatives or not look you in the eye when they speak to you. It's appalling.

To everyone that thinks the Burka should not be banned and women want to wear them please watch the following video about a 21 year old Afghani girl who has been in Britain for most of her life and has just gone back to Afghanistan to see just how women live and are treated there!

She finds out the real reasons why the Burka is worn, you will be shocked!

www.bbc.co.uk...

This video clearly shows the sick way that a lot of muslims treat their women! There are some real women HEROES who are standing up for themselves, at the risk of being killed might I add, and they are not wearing Burkas. I state again, I have no problem with anyone wearing a headscarf, but I do object to any sort of face covering while in public.

The poor 15 year old girl in the hospital who set herself on fire brought me to tears.... tears of sadness and tears of rage!

This is the true face of RADICAL ISLAM!

Originally posted by Myrddin Wyllt
This is the true face of RADICAL ISLAM!

And we should pull back that Burka and expose that face for everyone to see!

Look at it! Look at it! Oh the horror.

yet in their countries we also have to bow down to their rules

Those brutes. We're Australian's we shouldn't have to obey their silly laws or customs, they should respect our culture.

Do you really know the implications of what you are trying to defend! This could set a precedent for any muslim ideology of the future! "In the 2010 Burka case........blah blah blah", then the muslims get their way, you really are lost in this!

Yeah you're right. What if they won? They might get to keep wearing Burkas. Then Australian society would get overtaken by Sharia law. There would be 12 year olds getting married to 60 year old men in Sydney. Clearly the only way to stop these dangerous paedophile terrorist robbers from destroying this country is to ban the burka.

There could be a man under that burka. What if you like perved on him because you thought he was a chick bro?

Originally posted by antonia
The only thing you need to keep in mind is that it is illegal in many places in Australia to wear helmets, masks and other items that hide your face. This would mean that permitting women to wear the burqa in these areas would be allowing them to break the law. If they were successful in this bid, it would send the message that a religious minority has more rights than the majority. And there is the problem!

[edit on 7/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

I think the real issue is, at the end of the day, what does the law state - the law written for everyone? And should laws be bent and broken just to cater to religious beliefs? And where is the line drawn in regards to religion and what is and is not allowed? Do we allow any and all customs in religions to be allowed regardless of what the law says?

I ask this based on my experiences. Me being 21 in a foreign country, invited to and attending a Muslim wedding - of a 10yr old girl. Against the law, but I was told that this is their custom/belief and I just went right along with it - to support the family I had become friends with.

Today, I would have reported it to authorities. But I was pretty naive back then.

Again, where is the line between religious customs and the written law that is applicable to everyone.

[edit on May 7th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by belial259

Originally posted by Myrddin Wyllt
This is the true face of RADICAL ISLAM!

And we should pull back that Burka and expose that face for everyone to see!

Look at it! Look at it! Oh the horror.

yet in their countries we also have to bow down to their rules

Those brutes. We're Australian's we shouldn't have to obey their silly laws or customs, they should respect our culture.

Do you really know the implications of what you are trying to defend! This could set a precedent for any muslim ideology of the future! "In the 2010 Burka case........blah blah blah", then the muslims get their way, you really are lost in this!

Yeah you're right. What if they won? They might get to keep wearing Burkas. Then Australian society would get overtaken by Sharia law. There would be 12 year olds getting married to 60 year old men in Sydney. Clearly the only way to stop these dangerous paedophile terrorist robbers from destroying this country is to ban the burka.

There could be a man under that burka. What if you like perved on him because you thought he was a chick bro?

watch the video then get back to me, go on watch it, then comment instead of making stupid comments like

quote
"There could be a man under that burka. What if you like perved on him because you thought he was a chick bro? "

watch the video link and stop talking Sh!t

You go into abusive/defense mode when you see your points fall flat, WATCH THE VIDEO LINK I POSTED, THEN GET BACK TO ME!

I dunno, personally I'd rather see people in burqas than seeing fat dudes walk around in short shorts and flip flops. Perhaps there should be a ban on fat dudes who wear those garments.

Same thing with people who wear skinny jeans.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Whine Flu]

reply to post by oozyism

You are here on ATS, you can't see my eyes, and you are saying it is impossible for you to communicate..

May I respectfully point out the difference between verbal and written communication?

When you are talking to someone face to face, you are relying on direct, instantaneous feedback in the form of visual and auditory cues, the richest of which being facial expression and tone of voice.
When you are engaging in a written discussion, all you have to go on is a bunch of words arranged into sentences; you extract meaning from the text as best you can and you compose your response.
These are two completely different modes of interaction.

Speaking for myself, I would feel uneasy if my interlocutor had any type of covering which hid their whole face, regardless of their ethnic and cultural background, and their religious persuasion, because it would be blocking eye contact.
This is what I understood Riley's post to mean and I might have got it wrong for the same reason that you got it wrong: we are interpreting the written word.
Here's a special example:
You receive a phone call and your caller says: 'I've got news but I'd rather tell you in person'. In this case, auditory cues are not enough. They want to see your face as well.
Peace.

Originally posted by Whine Flu
I dunno, personally I'd rather see people in burqas than seeing fat dudes walk around in short shorts and flip flops. Perhaps there should be a ban on fat dudes who wear those garments.

I'm with you on that one!

Same thing with people who wear skinny jeans.

Haven't you heard whineflu. Skinny jeans make females un-rapeable! Don't believe me? A jury decided as much recently.

Rape of Women In Skinny Jeans 'Not Possible'

Perhaps the muslim babes should just wear skinny jeans instead!


IRM

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I think the real issue is, at the end of the day, what does the law state - the law written for everyone? And should laws be bent and broken just to cater to religious beliefs?

Do you think we should just selectively enforce freedom of speech and belief against certain religions but not others?

I'm not for underage marriage. Or even polygamy if it is not legal. Render unto Caesar. You must obey the law of the country you are in. Just because you are religious don't give you a get out of jail free card. If you do commit a crime you should be punished just like everyone else.

But if you don't commit a crime. Then you shouldn't have to be punished for it just for practising your religious beliefs.

I've tried to link a few pictures of what other major denominations use as their religious garb, but for some reason a comparison to Muslims is considered unrealistic.

A lot of people think that these terror laws like the US patriot act and the body scanners and the cameras and the biometric signatures are really meant for us. And we are effected by them.

And as it's already been said "those that give up liberty for security deserve neither"

How does our current treatment of Muslims in western nations since 9/11 different from the treatment of Jews by Hitler? If we sit by and watch the Muslims lose their rights, and demonise them and regard them as inhuman or the enemy or an invader. How are we any less bigoted?

There can be many comparisons drawn between the Nazi's in the period before WW2 and those of the West today. There is an economic depression. Reichstag fire very similar to 9/11. We have to build a massive police state and have a military buildup to protect ourselves from the Jews/Muslims.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Originally posted by Myrddin Wyllt
You go into abusive/defense mode when you see your points fall flat, WATCH THE VIDEO LINK I POSTED, THEN GET BACK TO ME!

I'm not trying to abuse you. I wish you could see what I'm trying to show you. Open your eyes.

I know there are bad things that happen in their countries. I know they can be brutal. But I'm not them and I'm never going to become like them. Maybe you haven't been following things over the past few years but we're not exactly the nicest people either.

And even though things have been very good for us here in Australia that is not going to last. We're heading for a major economic depression and possibly World War 3.

The Muslims aren't any different from us. They're stuck under control of maniacs and criminals and so are we.

Don't let yourself get sucked in by the propaganda and start to hate. We're all being manipulated. And if we Australians start fighting against eachother for petty reasons, we won't be able to stand up against the real criminals when this entire police state finally comes down on top of us.

Originally posted by belial259

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I think the real issue is, at the end of the day, what does the law state - the law written for everyone? And should laws be bent and broken just to cater to religious beliefs?

Do you think we should just selectively enforce freedom of speech and belief against certain religions but not others?

I'm not for underage marriage. Or even polygamy if it is not legal. Render unto Caesar. You must obey the law of the country you are in. Just because you are religious don't give you a get out of jail free card. If you do commit a crime you should be punished just like everyone else.

But if you don't commit a crime. Then you shouldn't have to be punished for it just for practising your religious beliefs.

I've tried to link a few pictures of what other major denominations use as their religious garb, but for some reason a comparison to Muslims is considered unrealistic.

So tell me then what does the law say about walking around in public with your FACE covered in Australia? Not your head (as in a scarf or hat) but our face completely obscured? And if the law says nobody can do it, then you admit that the women should not be allowed to walk around in burqas covering their entire face, right?

The photos you posted do not show full coverage of the face - which is the issue here. Not hats or scarves.

[edit on May 7th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

[edit on May 7th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
What does the law say about walking around in public with your FACE covered?

There isn't any law against it. Certain businesses or schools my have a condition of entry or a policy that says you can't cover your face. Like wearing a motorcycle helmet into a bank for instance, or complying with the dress code But by and large there isn't anything to prohibit it.



[edit on 7-5-2010 by belial259]

Originally posted by belial259

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
I think the real issue is, at the end of the day, what does the law state - the law written for everyone? And should laws be bent and broken just to cater to religious beliefs?

Do you think we should just selectively enforce freedom of speech and belief against certain religions but not others?

I'm not for underage marriage. Or even polygamy if it is not legal. Render unto Caesar. You must obey the law of the country you are in. Just because you are religious don't give you a get out of jail free card. If you do commit a crime you should be punished just like everyone else.

But if you don't commit a crime. Then you shouldn't have to be punished for it just for practising your religious beliefs.

I've tried to link a few pictures of what other major denominations use as their religious garb, but for some reason a comparison to Muslims is considered unrealistic.

A lot of people think that these terror laws like the US patriot act and the body scanners and the cameras and the biometric signatures are really meant for us. And we are effected by them.

And as it's already been said "those that give up liberty for security deserve neither"

How does our current treatment of Muslims in western nations since 9/11 different from the treatment of Jews by Hitler? If we sit by and watch the Muslims lose their rights, and demonise them and regard them as inhuman or the enemy or an invader. How are we any less bigoted?

There can be many comparisons drawn between the Nazi's in the period before WW2 and those of the West today. There is an economic depression. Reichstag fire very similar to 9/11. We have to build a massive police state and have a military buildup to protect ourselves from the Jews/Muslims.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

What! Treatment of muslims in the western world comparable to treatment of the Jews by the Nazi's! You are way out of order there, what a stupid statement to make, the Nazi's tried to eliminate an entire religious collective - the Jews,

the West are not trying to eliminate Islam, but we don't want their barbaric elements to invade "OUR" society. Come to our countries, practice their religion peacefully, without interfering in other people's lives and customs, then everything will be fine! When they try to enforce their ideology, then the problems begin!

I think your viewpoint is that women want to wear the Burka. Please watch the video I posted, I think you will change your mind.

This issue of the Burka to me is just a sign of Male oppression over Females, they are forced to wear them, watch the video..... just watch what these poor girls are going through!

It really is heartbreaking, it's not a case of horrible things happen in other countries, this is their way of life, day after day, abuse, pedophilia, all common place and tolerated through their religion - Islam.

One 15 year old girl is in prison charged with "disobeying her father and leaving the house without his permission!"...... She's been in jail for 2 and a half years on this charge!.......... it's lunacy.........but it goes on all the time in muslim countries!

I honestly believe that by banning the Burka, it will benefit women's rights far more than by not banning it! These poor kids in the video I posted a few links back are my reasons! For anyone who disagrees, i say again, watch the video i posted, all the proof is in the video!

Peace



[edit on 7-5-2010 by Myrddin Wyllt]

I did a bit of a search, but I cannot find anything in Australian law that states you cannot wear a helmet in a service station or in a bank - it is not law in New South Wales, it is more like a regulation of entry to the business - similar to entering something like Kmart where the condition of entry is that they can inspect your bags, for the banks and service stations they request you remove your helmet - though this is based on 'security measures'.

I also found this which sems to point to Queensland and the call for some form of regulation on head coverings or things that cover the facial features (so it might be regulated State to State in Oz) ... but once again, it is not law as I understand it.

On Thursday the Queensland Retailers Association executive director Scott Driscoll said the Muslim face veil – along with helmets, hoodies, baseball caps and sunglasses – could be used by people of criminal intent to disguise themselves and they should have to be removed as a condition of entry.