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Burqa ban is 'un-Australian' say Muslims

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posted on May, 10 2010 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by riley
 

How many times are you gonna try to justify your rediculous claims, at least sit down for awhile, relax, and think hard before replying. You are embarassing yourself.

Wrong again. She has segregated herself from guys who want a piece of meat.

So women who don't wear burkas deserve to be treated like pieces of meat? Burkas do not prevent rape.. but I know there have been muslim rapists who have punnished women with rape for not wearing one. Do you think this is okay? If "to prevent rape" is indeed the reason why burkas are worn maybe they should be banned. I will not support belief systems that may encourage the rape of non muslims.

This just goes to prove you have never met a girl who wears Burqah. And further more shows, that you have no interest in meeting such people.

You really have worn out the "You're racist and a liar" angle. My opinions come from personal experiences. I have already said I have muslim friends and have tried to socialise with women wearing burkas. I have explained at length why it's awkward. Call me racist or a liar all you want but the FACT is a person who is entirely hidden underneath a piece of material is nearly impossible to talk to if they are strangers. Other non muslims agree with me.. so are you calling them liars too? Just because people do not agree with you does not make them racists or wrong.

Not looking someone in the eyes is considered to be rude in Australia. Australia is NOT an extremist islamic state so our culture should be respected not rejected.

I mean common, I don't like meeting Gothics who cover their face with hair... Let's be honest, I do it for the sake of curiosity. I have a very good friend right now who is Gothic, or what ever you call it. Once you get to know them, you see what is behind that makeup, that Burqha, that hair, that mask, that what ever maybe which separates them from the rest of the society.

Gothics do NOT cover their faces with their hair and you can still see their eyes and face. They do not wear masks or face coverings so it is not comparable.

Have you ever met a Muslim with big beard? Do you wonder what is behind that big beard? Or do you just judge them based on what you see on TV? Or what you heard from others? Why not go meet them? Or did you meet one dick head Burqah wearer and judge all of them based on that one person?

Beards do not cover the entire face and head.. and you just described my fathers best mate who also wears traditional muslim clothing. I have no problem communicating with him or his children so please don't keep assuming I have nothing to do with muslims.


And your friends list is public, it is in your public profile, hence public.

You have to click on it to see it so no it's not public and you damned well know it was innapropriate.. if it was meant to be fully public it would be under my pic. There was no reason to post my friends list but you did it to violate my privacy- it was creepy. I respectfully asked you to remove it via U2U so you are aware it caused personal offensive.. yet you now just left there to be spiteful. Shows what kind of man you are.

Reminds me.. why won't you answer the question regarding the gagged woman in your avatar? You say you care about womens rights yet your pic shows one being restrained and possibly being brutalised.


[edit on 11-5-2010 by riley]




posted on May, 10 2010 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by JaquVanCouger
My issue with Muslims is that most do not assimilate with the rest of the population. A lot of them go to Islamic Schools, wear Buraq's, long beards etc they stick to their customs / beliefs and do not adopt to any of the country they have moved to and then ask for special treatment.
Most of the Europeans and Asians that have migrated to Australia over the decades have adopted Australian culture and mixed it with there own, they have influenced Australian Culture, and our multiculturalism is what makes Australia such a fantastic place to live.
Muslims need to become part of the Australian Culture and stop separating them selves from it.
Muslims need to open their mind and let the multiculturalism in and not try and change the world one country at a time to do things their way.


The reason Europeans and most Asians have assimilated is because they are hospitable people by nature.
Islam is not a hospitable religion. Thus, it's followers are not hospitable people.
Islam is really a wolf in sheeps clothing, a modern day trojan horse.
It's the biggest security risk to the world. This includes China and Russia, who also face islamic separatism and terrorism.

What I hate about this whole situation is that the racists are using anti-Islamic feelings of most of the population to try and draw a link to multiculturalism.

Multiculturalism was working fine, until mass islamic migrations started. As well as mass Indian migration.

These people just don't assimilate. They don't want to assimilate with the rest of us.

So why do our governments let them in?



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 03:00 AM
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Originally posted by BLV12
The reason Europeans and most Asians have assimilated is because they are hospitable people by nature.
Islam is not a hospitable religion. Thus, it's followers are not hospitable people.
Islam is really a wolf in sheeps clothing, a modern day trojan horse.
It's the biggest security risk to the world. This includes China and Russia, who also face islamic separatism and terrorism.

I believe you are making an incorrect assumption here. As people, most Muslims are hospitable and willing to integrate. There is only a small faction that refuses to fit in and adapt to the Australian way of life. The problem with mass-immigration is that the more people you take in, the more bad apples you will accept into your civilisation.

A country like England has taken in so many Muslims, that the number of Radicals has reached a dangerous level. Hopefully, Australia will wake up and not fall into the same trap. Allowing the Radicals here to force their women to wear burqas is a step in the wrong direction. Calling those who wish to see this problem dealt with "racist" only makes the task more difficult.


What I hate about this whole situation is that the racists are using anti-Islamic feelings of most of the population to try and draw a link to multiculturalism.

Multiculturalism was working fine, until mass islamic migrations started. As well as mass Indian migration.

These people just don't assimilate. They don't want to assimilate with the rest of us.

So why do our governments let them in?

I understand what you are getting at. The problem is the people that come from very different cultures who find it hard to adapt to the Australian way of life. These are the people that should have to prove in a reasonable fashion that they are willing to embrace and respect Australian culture. If they do not agree to this, then they should be denied entry into the country.

Notice how people from Canada, USA, England, New Zealand and most other Western countries seem to adapt and integrate much better? Even these countries have differing cultures in many aspects, but overall immigrants from these countries assimilate and show respect towards Australian values.

[edit on 11/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 05:16 AM
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I've yet to meet an Indian, Middle Eastern, or African recent migrant(which constitutes the majority of them here), who is attempting to integrate and become part of Australia and Australian society.

My grandparents and parents did so when they came to Australia from Greece, so did hundreds of thousands of others, as well as many more from Italy, China, Yugoslavia..

Are you telling me Greek culture and customs are like Australian culture and customs? Chinese? .... of course not.

They didn't get the help that these new arrivals are getting.
They didn't have the federal government subsidizing our wages so employers would give us jobs.
They didn't have specific job network providers which help them find jobs, specifically for them.
It was also much much much harder for new arrivals to fit in, because they were the first new arrivals since white settlement back in those days.

So excuse me for being pissed off.

These new arrivals are given every opportunity and chance, with untold assistance going their way.

Try get a low paying unskilled job in a factory these days, you wont if the recruitment officer and other associated staff you will interact with are none-whites. If you do, you'd be one of the very few. It's even worse if the place your applying for a job is owned by non-whites.

These people cry foul and yell about discrimination and racism when they miss out, but they are all too happy and willing to turn around and do it to white people.


Tell me, why are there street gangs across Australia which are Middle Eastern in ethnicity?

Gangs like the MEB(Middle Eastern Boys), New Boys, FYC(F#$k You Crew), etc.

Did you see Chinese, Greek, Italian street gangs back in the hey day of those ethnic groups migration to Australia? Nope..


These people don't respect Australia, they don't respect it's culture and way of life.

They don't deserve to be here. Send them all back to their war torn countries.

Damn, even on that talk show on SBS the few time's I've seen them on there, they are making excuses left right and center.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by riley
 


And your friends list is public, it is in your public profile, hence public.

Good point apparently.


My Sharp Friends
These are my collaborators as I work to deny ignorance.
21 friends:

Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Bunken Drum
OmegaLogos
sanchoearlyjones
Critical_Mass
SmokeJaguar67
ninecrimes
ProtoplasmicTraveler
Archon_Adept
SphinxMontreal
Drexl
JayinAR
Republican08
Lazyninja
bigyin
December_Rain
seattletruth
_damon
bsbray11
Zerbst
Thepreye


You made the argument so are you saying you are close friends with all these people? I doubt it.. and even then the internet is a very new social medium and is vastly different to the social dynamics that exist in real life.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by riley]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan
At the end of the day, you are not qualified to tell us what is or isn't un Australian. You don't even live here!


Quoted for truth. Someone who isn't Australian shouldn't be telling us how to live.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
That I felt was an insult to me


That's exactly the problem with many Muslims, they feel insulted way too quickly. Ayaan Hirsi Ali puts it right: 'Why are Muslims so hypersensitive?' Perhaps you should give her new book 'Nomad' a try?

I'd like to note that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is now living in the US. Why? Because some muslim retard felt it necessary to put a dagger through a film director's heart who dared to produce a movie critical of Islam. He wrapped a note around the dagger, which was intended for Ayaan Hirsi Ali (she wrote the story for the movie), whom then received so many threats from Muslims that she was forced to leave the country with 24/7 protection.

Before you are gonna come up with your ignorant crap that I hate Muslims, you should perhaps check my posting history to find out I've been a vivid defender of the Palestinian cause.

However, it is my experience - on a general and personal level - that there is a huge number of Muslims who cannot stand the Western way of living and they refuse to integrate, but apparently this group - to which you belong - feels that Muslims have a monopoly on criticism.

If Westerners dear to criticize the refusal of Muslims to integrate in the society they themselves choose to live in, they are either called racist or xenophobic. There's one thing I don't understand - if you don't like our society why don't you move back to where you come from. Apparently our societies are not all that bad compared to many Islamic countries.

I cannot walk down the street with a forage cap because my face is ought to be visible, and for the very same reason Muslims cannot wear the Burqa. Either wear a headscarf or move out if you cannot accept our rules. It is really that simple.










[edit on 11-5-2010 by Mdv2]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 10:54 AM
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Here is what Merkava, who posts regularly, er um, supporting the Muslim cause.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


We are the FINAL, OVER and OUT.And everything we do is legal.


If they had the guts they would have done it ages ago.We are now the REAL British Nationals.I hope you understand what that means.And if.you don't than let me know.


And then here, he states the plan clearly.


Within a few years Muslim population will hit 2 Billion, from 1/3 it will soon become 2/3 of the world population due to high birth rate.

So no matter how much one hates Islam, in future the world will have to mould itself to come in terms with it.


I think this plainly states what we are all observing.

Edit to add link to second quote.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 11-5-2010 by poet1b]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 



Once again you misunderstand the belief of those who wear buqah's. Let me explain, the main reason why someone wears Burqah's is to not mix with men in general.


So, if you're a male, you can't socialise in public with a woman wearing a burqa, right?
In Australia, men and women mix freely and make friends. If a man, with completely innocent intentions, attempts to interact in a friendly way with a woman wearing a burqa, he runs the risk of experiencing antagonism, just like Infaredman described. All he can do is treat such women like negative spaces and psychologically exclude them from the human community he lives in. That's a very good reason to feel uncomfortable around them.

If a female wants to strike up a friendship with a burqa-clad woman, she can't rely on the amazing broadcasting system we were all born with: facial expression. With a bare-faced stranger, she will know instantly if her friendly entreaties are welcome. It's easy for you to say, "heck, just go for it, approach her and start talking", because you're used to interact with your sisters and mother. To me, it seems reasonable that an Australian woman might perceive a woman in a burqa as unapproachable.

I completely agree that discomfort is up to an individual's perceptions. I also agree that feeling uncomfortable is no reason to ban anything. But that discomfort should be acknowledged and distinguished from outright racism and Islamophobia.

From the little I know of the history of the burqa, I believe sources which say that it originated from the Bedouins and that it predates Islam.
As a Westerner and an atheist, I don't perceive the human body as shameful and sexual thoughts as impure. I also disagree with the idea that one gender should be responsible for the sexual thoughts of the other.
But, as I said, if a woman chooses to cover herself from head to toe, for her own reasons, without any pressure, who am I to argue?

You are right. You're not a mindreader and neither am I. All we have to exchange on this forum are opinions. I will share my opinion with you on one particular thing: I think you feel threatened by Riley and that you know deep down you are treating her unfairly.

post by oozyism

Sorry if I sounded like an asshole...


PS: Feel free to unleash the flame-thrower. I need a new haircut anyway.
Peace.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by jeanvaljean
 


The problem is that we have no idea of whether or not the women are choosing to wear the burqa.

By all reports from when Muslim women get the courage to speak out, they don't like wearing the burqa. This is also combined with honor killings that are carried out everywhere by Muslim communities.

It is pretty intimidating when women are beaten for showing too much skin, or even murdered by their own family for dressing the way they choose.

Control of women is key to the Muslim goal of taking over control by out reproducing the people of Western nations.

Not only does eliminating the burqa greatly help in identifying home abuse, and public intimidation, it also eliminates what many see as an impenetrable barrier between cultures.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by jeanvaljean
 


The problem is that we have no idea of whether or not the women are choosing to wear the burqa.


It is irrelevant whether they freely wear the burqa. If you emigrate to another country, you should come with a willingness to integrate into local society. Wearing a burqa prevents one from participating in our society. The chance that an employer is going to hire a woman wearing a burqa is close to zero as she could obviously not function normally. In contrast to what some Muslims seem to belief, it is not us, Westerners, who need to adopt Islamic standards, but Muslims need to adopt our standards if they want to live here. If not, they have no reason to emigrate here.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by riley
 





So women who don't wear burkas deserve to be treated like pieces of meat? Burkas do not prevent rape..

zzz lame

Who said women not wearing Burqah deserves to be treated like pieces of meat? What I said was, and still is:



She has segregated herself from guys who want a piece of meat.

you don't know what that statement means? Girls who expose too much do it for a reason, and guys approach those girls for a reason, hence can get your number. Why would you want her number? Don't tell me they want to be friends lol..



but I know there have been muslim rapists who have punnished women with rape for not wearing one. Do you think this is okay? If "to prevent rape" is indeed the reason why burkas are worn maybe they should be banned. I will not support belief systems that may encourage the rape of non muslims.

That is what I mean about you, I know what you stand for, I have discussed with you issues before, and I know exactly where you stand..

For example Muslim rapists who has punished women with rape? Really lol. You can make that same argument in regards to any rapists can't you? Plus how can a rapist be Muslim? Once you rape someone you are not regarded as a Muslim, secondly rape is a crime punished by death according to Islam. But propaganda and Australia, two inseparable entities at current times.

See where you stand? See what your beliefs are? See the propaganda in you, cause I can see it. You believe Islam encourages Muslim to rape those who don't wear burqahs.. Can I laugh now?

Rape is punished by death. Why is rape punished by death? Is it because Islam encourages people to rape? hahahaha. You are making a mockery out of your own self..

I will continue the response later, got to go uni. later



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 06:27 PM
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picture dont work sorry


[edit on 11-5-2010 by fatdad]


[edit on 11-5-2010 by fatdad]



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by riley
 

She has segregated herself from guys who want a piece of meat.

you don't know what that statement means? Girls who expose too much do it for a reason, and guys approach those girls for a reason, hence can get your number. Why would you want her number? Don't tell me they want to be friends lol..

Exposed too much by your (strict) muslim standards.. if you do not agree with it you can find a culture you do agree with. Western women can say no to giving out their number.. muslim women can do the same.

You say the burka isn't suppose to impede communication but you just admitted it's to prevent people asking for numbers..
Asking for numbers requires verbal communication and you just admitted not being able to see someone's face makes them unaproachable. Thats the whole point of the burka. To segregate muslim women from the rest of society.


Rape is punished by death. Why is rape punished by death? Is it because Islam encourages people to rape? hahahaha. You are making a mockery out of your own self..

I'm pretty sure rape must be proven with four males witnesses which makes conviction of rape nearly impossible. The innocent do not just stand around and watch a rape.. and we all know how the taliban deal with rape victims.

More muslim women get murdered for being raped than men do for raping them.

[edit on 11-5-2010 by riley]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 03:03 AM
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In 1914 to the present Australia has suffered per head of population one of the worst war casualty rates for fighting men in the world.
Did they fight for women to be covered head to toe in Sydney and Melbourne or Brisbane?
I will answer for them........NO
They fought for the right to be an Aussie
They resented the stuffy Brit way of life, the restrictions on freedom.
And now we have suburbs in their cities of birth where you would know you are in Australia.
The rich sneer and call the concerned bigots whilst they count their silver coins in locations as far away as possible.
Traitors sold us out just remember.
Our kind, sold us out.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 04:31 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



The problem is that we have no idea of whether or not the women are choosing to wear the burqa.


Hi poet1b.
Yes. But this is the dilemma legislators are faced with:
One the one hand, women are forced to wear the burqa. On the other hand, as much as it boggles my mind, women choose to wear it.
So, if you ban it, the women who are treated like property by their husbands will be forbidden to leave home and the ones who freely wear it will be deprived of the right to choose what they wear and might feel too exposed to leave home.
In both cases, women end up paying the price of a decision made by someone else.
Peace.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:06 AM
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Its a tough one, but the way I see it, immigrants need to adapt and blend in to the country they choose to live in which includes leaving the burqa behind.
Equally we should all abide by each countries cultures and heritage in order to grow to undertand the hidden history surrounding them. If for any reason people cannot except this, then there really is no need for them to claim asylum in these countries as it would be apparent that they do not wish to blend in and have no intention of intergrating.

If we were to adopt these measures then IMHO the world would be a much better place and it would not cause so much division within different religions/faith.

There will come a time where we must all agree to disagree in order to maintain the greater good.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by jeanvaljean
Hi poet1b.
Yes. But this is the dilemma legislators are faced with:
One the one hand, women are forced to wear the burqa. On the other hand, as much as it boggles my mind, women choose to wear it.

It's not really mind-boggling to imagine which types of women might want to wear the bruqa. Have you considered women that are very beautiful or with very good figures getting tired of being looked at with lust? How about those that have self-image issues and feel self-conscious about their bodies in normal clothes? How about those who want to maintain anonymity? How about those that like the fact of being able to jump up and put on the garment without wasting 20 minutes deciding what they would like to wear that day?

[edit on 12/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 

Hey Dark Ghost.

Good point.
What boggles my mind is the face covering, not the loose body cloth. I'm talking about the narrow mesh in front of the eyes and the cloth covering the entire face. I agree that there are women out there who are tired of being ogled and find comfort in being shielded. I just find a face-mask covering the entire face extreme. What does it say about a society's attitude to women that they feel the need to cover their faces in public?
Peace.

Edited for verb.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by jeanvaljean]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by riley
 





Exposed too much by your (strict) muslim standards..

There you go again with your wild assumptions.. I said previously I love exposed girls, I literally do, I am a man. At the same time I love girls who wear Burqah, because it balances things out.

No they are not exposed by strict Muslims standards, they are exposed because they are.

Your lame arguments are taking this discussion nowhere. Your refusal to answer any of my question is taking this discussion nowhere.

Once again, why do you think girls spend hours in front of the mirror? Is it because they want to go out and make friends? Or is there something else behind it which you and I are both denying. Heck I do it too, I spend alot of time fixing my hair, shaving, trying out different cloths before I go to UNIVERSITY. NOW if you have a think, I go to UNIVERSITY to study, right? So why do I care so much about how I look like? Well because I want to go get some girls..








Let's end this discussion, it is wasting my time, I could have got a girl's number by now.

Burqah is similar to a Marriage Ring. You decide to wear it, although others can force you to wear. And it is not just men who can force you, it is also women.

I don't know why I'm arguing in regards to the reasoning behind why women wear Burqah. I'm in no position to do so, I encourage Riley to go out and meet some Burqah wearing Females. Best place to find them is in Universities.

I might talk to one and record her saying and post it here just to piss your little ass off..



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