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Female posters incapable of original thought?

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posted on May, 7 2010 @ 10:15 PM
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It's funny are ran into this thread now, my father has a girlfriend, and she said an instresting thing.. "all of us, were fooled", and she wasn't just talking about the women, men also.

What she meant was, and i agree with her, all of these magazines and movies and such, they show women, a TEMPTATION (just like men), and they are promised power, money, and things, For men, it's cars, women, well u get the idea. So if you think about it, the yonger generation, are seeing this fake reality, and they are putting them selfs into a position where for an example ( women must wear a lot of make up in order to look good, and have the highest heals just to even be close to a human being, then once they do that, now the men have temptations also, now he must get a brand new car, and if he doesn't he isn't worth anything to that women, and vice versa it goes), it's all deeply planned out, but there is one thing im happy about.

This thread shows that people male and female, well im gonna say the human race, is waking up!! We WERE fooled. men have lowered them selfs to being rude and having the image of being "gods" so to speak.
and then women basicalle turned them selfs against men also, "we HAVE POWER" and all that bs they loaded them and us with, not that none of us don't have power, it's just they "gave" all of us a feeling of false power.

i guess that's where it comes into play then. why do we seak power, and what do we need it for, all it does is seperate us, men want power over women, and women want power over men.




posted on May, 7 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
The problem though comes from various directions due to the groupthink mentality.

And ATS does it just as much as everywhere else whether on purpose or not.


This can happen both by those making the sexist comments as well those calling attention to them. I can usually keep myself from commenting in a thread (regardless of the topic) when it would only serve as back-up, but I'm sure I've slipped on occasion. All part of being human, I suppose.


I give people credance based upon their education level, insightfulness, and intelligent means of sharing unique and diverse ideas.


That is one of the reasons I've always enjoyed reading your posts, even in threads I don't respond to.



What we are, how we act, and how we contribute to society is that which defines who we are, in all things, in all places, and all walks of life.


That's something we should all remember and sexist shouldn't be included in the way we define ourselves. Some people aren't concerned with how they are seen by others, though. In itself, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'd argue that in a lot of cases it can be a very good thing. But it can become a bad thing when that lack of concern for how one appears leads them to actually speak or behave in a manner that is intentionally degrading to someone else whether it's through sexism, racism, or whatever.

I hadn't heard of the FBI agent you mentioned, but I'll be sure to do some reading on her. Thanks for the recommendation.





Originally posted by kinda kurious
After reviewing some of the links provided in this thread, it is clear to see some baiting and zingers hurled from both sides.


I'd ask which you think describes my post that you quoted, but I'm almost afraid to.
I wasn't trying to bait anyone with it for what it's worth. It's a bit difficult to call someone out on comments like the one I was responding to without zingers though.


I didn’t participate in that thread, I was at the monthly “He Man Woman Haters” meeting.


They were giving out t-shirts at that one weren't they?



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


Jenna,

Thanks for your speedy reply. I am not going to wade through the multitude of pages on this thread.


And that is what I don't understand. I've never been one to try and step on someone else in an effort to just make myself look better. I'll argue my point if I'm sure that I'm right even to the point of repeating myself. But I don't go out of my way to intentionally belittle the person I'm talking to, and I can't understand the mindset required to do so.


This is very interesting to me Jenna...because of what has been happening in the last say..two years of so..beginning with ATS/BTS. I have noticed alot of posts where people are mostly trying to promote their "feelings" with little else. That this is how things should be...how the world ought to work and operate by default...because I "feel." Usually I let this go..but when I get enough..I tend to open with this line...

"Did you go to public school and never get over it??"

What I am implying here in this ..is did they get a television/movie education in self justification through emotions?? How they feel. Are they drama queens...male and female.

This has become the modus operandi of many on the various boards out here. It becomes obvious that they have little real life experiences and or knowledge outside of some feeling they got or bought into based on some movie or television program they ate with a huge spoon.

To me much of public education has in fact become a television/movie education..."feelings."

What you begin to notice which is severely missing from these "Feelings" type posts is who or whom is going to take the RISKS..to make someones "deserved/entitled feelings" come true.

I am going to point out something I feel is very lacking from much of male thinking out here and I also don't think many females recognize this for what it is. I also think many males react to this manner and don't think about it ..or what causes it.

Many males out here work in environments which require certain disciplines and knowledge's of what they are dealing with ..or they can, in failing this, become severely injured or killed. As a result of this kind of discipline or knowledge/awareness...they learn to stow...or discipline their emotions. They learn not to easily give into their emotions or live for them.
It can be quiet a struggle for many males/men to go back and forth to a home life where emotions are what someone lives for because of the risks/disciplines taken by someone else.
Someone else gets access to emotions and options but not the ones RISKING for them. This is quite a transition for many men.
Alot of women do not enter such arenas for this very reason. RISK. Meaning lack of emotional fulfillment. Even though it may pay better than other jobs in which they have worked.

Sports training and conditioning is more training to discipline emotions or put another way...more emotional isolation...while taking RISKS/problem solving for others. Most men I have ever spoken to do not recognize this aspect of sports or what they do...and how it limits their options/emotional satisfaction. Hence in the end...what is left is ....sports, oil shortage, and cheerleaders. Really pitiful to me.

I find the women's movement not interested in this at all...but more about blaming men for not ceding to more of their conditions.
The body politic not interested at all..except to get the women's vote at election time.

Most women would like a more sensitive man ..but usually a man who is sensitive to them..not everything out here.

The men haven't a clue....as long as they have sports , cheerleaders and beer ....as I said..they are good for another 100,000 miles.

At work the other night when the guys got to talking about sports...the up and coming boxing matches...Pakawalski and Mayflower..I got up and left..not interested in it at all. I have little interest in watching two grown men beat each other up for monies. Nor grown men in two opposing teams. Nor am in interested in this separating me from my monies.
But that is just me. I also have little interest in watching the cheerleaders..for two opposing teams beating each other up on a field.

Don't get me wrong here..I am not against sports or competition...and certainly not against discipline.....I am just not interested in the cheapening of it to the point of such awful merchandising it has done to us.
To me ..for some of us it has sold or stolen our souls. The zeal of politics has become just as base to me as sports..each team rooting for its side. Really cheap and base and I believe the body politic has encouraged this division..not uniting ..but division. And politics pays for and finances public education ..all across the board. Not difficult to connect the dots in thinking/thought.


The only thing they might not have is the desire to do so and the technical knowledge of how it's done.


Yes..this is exactly of what I was speaking..the desire to do this...on the part of both sexes.


We're built differently and compliment each other.


I think this is exactly what we are here to do and this is not equality..it is compimentary.

Also ...be very careful what one thinks is strength...physical strength is not always strength. Strength is not what it appears to be on the surface.
Lots of people can take a hammer and beat a lock off of its shackle to gain access to what is inside....protected from them. But there are people like me who have a set of lock picks/shims in their back pocket and can get in many locks with a minimum of effort and leave no tell tale marks verses beating the lock off the hasp with physical strength.
Physical strength is not always it. If you have ever watched someone very good at martial arts...it is also inner strength along with excellent powers of observation, motion, and timing.

Subtlety properly applied can also be strength...as can many other attributes. Strength is not always physical. I think many males tend to overlook this.

I think we are here to be complimentary ...not equal. Or as some have aptly posted....different.

AceWombat4 posted..


I think this is also why men regard vagueness as passive aggression, too (although sometimes there really is passive aggression, too.)

As a male myself, I do require specificity. Not about all things, but at least when it comes to communication about emotional states, desires, etc. And I actively beseech the women around me to be aware of that, because hooooh boy, some of the miscommunications that have transpired as a result of not doing so!

This is where I think the respect for one another's differences comes in.


When people are vague..I sometimes detect that it is because they don't want to appear or be known to be vulnerable ..thus hesitancy to be specific.

However when real RISKS are involved..lifetaking RISKS...you had better be specific and not vague. And you had better know enough to demand specifics. When your backside is harshly on the line..it is surprising how specific you can be.
Most women and very effeminate men I know do not want to know any of this..they just want it done..like yesterday. They are not interested in any of the details or the RISKS involved. These things are for others...not them.

I don't have much use for this kind of passive aggression ..male or female.
Particularly when I know it is my backside which will be taking RISK.
I don't like lightweights around me. I will get rid of them rapidly.
But that is just me.


we should respect and be sensitive to those differences.


I don't think so...
We need to be civil..no problem with this in me. I am just not interested in become sensitive in this manner to everyone.


I think you have a good point. (Some) men are kind of threatened by intelligent, leading women, since nature makes man the leader. It's not because those men hate women, it's just a natural, but unfortunate, insecurity.


I wouldn't say or agree to all of that. I'll tell you what happened here in town with two "intelligent leading " women.

In the apartment business..I know of a woman manager determined to get her way over the men...couldn't be told anything..had to have her way...she's the boss. Well...the grounds crew did not run the weed eaters around a certain area of the air conditioning units of the apartment complex. She demanded that they do so. The boss of the groundsmen said..."ok ....whatever you want!" He proceeded to cut all the thermostat control and sensing lines to hundreds of apartments.
She was so determined that she did not know that they used spray weedbegone/roundup...around these sensing lines. She proved her point well.
The apartments spent a couple of weeks and overtime getting these air conditioners back operational in the middle of the summer. She did not last long in this job. She missed the specifics here.

Here in town..the woman boss over the city grass cutting crews is watching the budget numbers. She wants the crews to work in the busiest times of the day .with the most hazardous traffic hours to cut certain areas at great risk. She is watching the numbers..not the safety of the people. This is going to cost them lives...soon. This is called leadership today.
Just like the apartment manager above. Not interested in the specifics outside of budget numbers.

Women just like men are capable of just as much stupid in trying to be dominant to the gods of stupid.

As I stated earlier..intelligence is not all there is..try some common sense.
Intelligence and IQ can be very overrated.

Thanks,
Orangetom




[edit on 7-5-2010 by orangetom1999]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


I dont have ANY problem with ladies on the board. Maybe I was raised weird but I was raised around women that "dont know there place...AND TELL YOU SO!"

I'm raising my daughter to be the same way....just like her Mama!

I agree with some of the ladies here and some I dont. Just like the dudes.

I dont give a rats butt about if the poster wears skirts or business suits. I'm way more interested in the posting.

The NUMBER ONE person I want to watch my six is the person the gave me my little girl and the ability to be what I am today.

That person is my bride of 15 years come October 7. I love my Baby!

BTW, all of you ladies that have been so blessed, HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!
the hardest underpaid job EVER!



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 10:55 PM
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i would just like to add that during the 70s,80s,90s, the world was designed for men in there 30s now it seems like the world is run by 60 year old women

we have way to many rules and regulations
its as if my grandmother was running the world



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
BH! THis is so true!

Maybe it's the stuff I've learned about men in my 18-year marriage, but men ARE different. And one way they're different is that they don't (can't?) appreciate generalities. They like concrete examples. Pussyfooting around just makes it look like you're whining and complaining about a general feeling. I know you're not, but unless you are willing to lay it out there, don't expect them to "get it".


I like men, truly I do. But men don't do "subtle". Nope. They require hard-wired information to get the picture. Precise and to the point.

(Is this sexist?)


Head, meet bat.

yes, men like the bat to the head. They don't like the REPEATED bat to the head. Just a single whap, will do.




posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by thedeadtruth
 


Let me preface this for those that do not know me. I am female. I am a feminist.

I would like to disagree with you.

And I do disagree with the idea that it is as inherent at you believe. You have to remember that you ARE dealing specifically with women who have absolutely decided to turn on their internal ignore button. They wear it for you to see, and they are the people you are dealing with.

There is absolutely a certain amount of women - maybe even a large section of them - who don't think critically. They've also probably not been encouraged to think critically.

Women are encouraged to ignore the instincts, to find fun in being demeaned, and to accept their place in NOT questioning.

Women are literally encourage NOT to question.

In that context, some of what you are seeing makes sense.

All the same. I have to agree with you more than I would EVER want to.

I also have to agree with another poster I don't want to.

There is a high degree of social group think. Straying from group think is punishable through expulsion, shunning, social cues of disappointment. Conflict and competition are not just discouraged in female groups, but often punished.

Without challenge, critical think is impossible. No matter how open one precieves themselves to be, there is always more information.

Women often love the group/organization/family/unit-of-social-interaction more than the love the truth. The truth disrupts. Disruption is evil.


Not all women are like this. Not all groups are. However, it would be a lie to say it is not ubiquitious.

And it probably is inherent to a degree. When you consider that women who challenge have been WAY more likely to die unpleasantly at the hands of their "loved" ones for "being out of place," a degree of inherent importance of survival being in being socially malleable is probably necessary as a genetic strategy.


[edit on 2010/5/7 by Aeons]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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Again, I would like to thank the OP for making this thread which is very pertinent to current circumstances. You are an excellent OP.

Some of you have surprised me with respect to your thoughts. There seems to be a tendency by some to minimize the issue which is being raised here.

Most assuredly this is not a frivolous matter, as some of you would like to believe. To you, I will say I believe you are not looking into what we have been trying to tell you here, and have gained only a superficial understanding of what is occurring. I ask you to please click on the links that have been provided for your assessment, if you have not already.

The women who frequent ATS do so for the same reasons men do.
We are fiercely curious. Our brains and thoughts extend beyond the mundane and daily fare. We want more. We are adventurous in our thoughts and lives, and we want to read, and be read by those with common interests.
We want to learn and we want to share what we have learned.

Anatomy or emotionality does not divide us in these endeavors and interests, nor should they.

But when someone appears who rudely claims it does....then yes.
It becomes a problem.

One observes from the OP's statements that she did not take authoring this thread lightly. She has a very good reason for it. I would hope we can all respect that.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
Thanks for your speedy reply. I am not going to wade through the multitude of pages on this thread.


No problem. I've been trying to keep up with the thread, I just hope I haven't missed anyone. Can't blame you for not wanting to wade through the whole thread. It turned into a bigger monster than I expected when I posted the OP.



What I am implying here in this ..is did they get a television/movie education in self justification through emotions?? How they feel. Are they drama queens...male and female.


I'm not sure. The way I've always understood it, using phrases like "I think" and "I feel" are supposed to make you seem less confrontational and are intended to keep from putting someone else on the defensive so the conversation can continue without finger-pointing. But that's more for personal relationships and not message boards. It doesn't work so well in threads where facts and proof are expected and needed more so than emotion though, so yeah some of it could just be drama kings and queens.


This has become the modus operandi of many on the various boards out here. It becomes obvious that they have little real life experiences and or knowledge outside of some feeling they got or bought into based on some movie or television program they ate with a huge spoon.


Who uses spoons? I prefer to eat mine with a fork.


Seriously though, I fear you may be correct. That could be part of the reason behind the comments that I referred to in the OP. If someone gets all of their knowledge of how men and women interact comes from movies and TV, they could easily be left with the impression that all women are money-hungry superficial bimbos and that they require a man to keep them in check. I hadn't thought of it from that angle.


Many males out here work in environment which require certain disciplines and knowledge's of what they are dealing with ..or they can in failing this become severely injured or killed. As a result of this kind of discipline or knowledge/awareness...they learn to stow...or discipline their emotions. They learn not to easily give into their emotions or live for them.
It can be quiet a struggle for many males/men to go back and forth to a home life where emotions are what someone lives for because of the risks/disciplines taken by someone else.


That's similar to some of the discussions my hubby and I have had. Many people know this already, but he's in the military. He has to control his emotions or risk his safety and the safety of those he's responsible for. Because of this, he has a difficult time grasping the reason why when I show a strong emotional response to something and sometimes thinks I'm just being ridiculous. (We have little talks about sexism too. :lol


It's not that he's intentionally trying to be insensitive, he just has gotten so used to hiding his emotions that any emotional display tends to make him uncomfortable. Over the years we've finally gotten to the point where I don't automatically think he's being an insensitive jerk and understand that due to the risks he faces, controlling emotions is second-nature for him. And now he doesn't automatically say (out loud) that I'm being irrational and understands that having emotions doesn't make my point less valid. It took us awhile to get that understanding of each other, but the battle was worth it since we're now better able to see where each other is coming from.


Yes..this is exactly of what I was speaking..the desire to do this...on the part of both sexes.


My apologies, I misunderstood you a bit then.



Also ...be very careful what one thinks is strength...physical strength is not always strength.

[...]

Subtlety properly applied can also be strength...as can many other attributed. Strength is not always physical. I think many males tend to overlook this.


Agreed. I mentioned physical strength as an example of one way that my hubby and I compliment each other as a way of explaining how men and women in general compliment each other.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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Ladyinwaiting -

I always find the argument that people being "emotional" is bad interesting.

All humans are emotional, unless they have a brain problem.

Most of the people who complain that women are "emotional" are often highly emotional themselves - and usually too stupid to realize they are emotional. Or so out of touch with it that they miss vital internal cues.

Emotion is a signal of a body process or one's brain prompting them to pay attention to something important. It is absolutely critical to human survival, and human genetic continuance.

The people who claim that someone is "too emotional" to think are usually so out of touch with their own emotions that they are lying to themselves. Which should immediately call into question their "critical thinking" since they are already ignoring critical information.


Anyways - just a pet peeve that I was reminded of.

The idea that men are the "standard" by which "critical thought" is based is flawed.

Critical thought is critical thought, and the gender of the person is irrelevant to the outcomes of the application of logic and knowledge.


[edit on 2010/5/7 by Aeons]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


Genetic strategy. Now THAT is saying alot.
Women strategize for survival. Men, who may not appreciate women disobeying them, will react out of emotion (she hurt his pride) and kill women on the premise that they are not fulfilling their assigned roles. This they call "logic." Whereas the woman who realizes she has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving such a scenario, uses her logic and strategizes her own survival. This is called emotion.

Yeeeep, the world is upside, backwards and inside out.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Aeons
 


Genetic strategy. Now THAT is saying alot.
Women strategize for survival. Men, who may not appreciate women disobeying them, will react out of emotion (she hurt his pride) and kill women on the premise that they are not fulfilling their assigned roles. This they call "logic." Whereas the woman who realizes she has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving such a scenario, uses her logic and strategizes her own survival. This is called emotion.

Yeeeep, the world is upside, backwards and inside out.



I know. It turns your head inside out.

What should make people really freak out is this. They think that it is all about females protecting themselves.

In patriarchial societies, there are ONLY gender roles. There is ONLY marriage. There is only ONE way, even if its stupid.

In societies that aren't so patriarchial there is divorce. There is a way out. Roles are de-emphasized, and what works is emphasized.

Some # people think is seriously provably wrong. All male dominated societies have marriage as the only option. No female-liberated (even if that liberation is not much) society has only marriage as an option. Yet everyone thinks that marriage is for women.

That one always makes my mind want to bleed.

[edit on 2010/5/7 by Aeons]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:36 PM
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Seriously, I had to highlight this post. THIS is the clearest example of what the OP is trying to get across that I have seen. If anyone said that to me in real life I would probably clock their troglodyte behind. But online you hear this kind of nonsense directed at women all the time.


Originally posted by vaevictis

Originally posted by aboveandbeyond

They also know the US is stretched thin in both manpower and funding. Our troops can't be everywhere and we can't afford another war. I hope nothing comes of this, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if something does.

Maybe manpower will work as a deterrent without doing anything?



aboveandbeyond, I don't mean to appear rude or callous, but i don't think military matters are for you to discuss. you just haven't earned it. you'd be the first to cower in the corner uttering some skirt-clutching squeals of horror like 'what are THEY going to do about it? THEY - never YOU. i know what i said doesn't sound politically correct but it's time someone said it. women really need to conduct a reality check. i'm sure you've a lot to offer on ats maybe it'd be better to choose a more neutral topic where you can actually contribute rather than pulling one-liners out of your girlish a**



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is just disgusting. If he she cannot control themselves in a basic civil manner online I would hate to see how they behave elsewhere.

This is also the reason this thread is educational and needed. Highlighting examples of this behavior and bringing the darkness of the thoughts to light is the first step in trying to understand it.

I admit, I do not understand the viewpoint of the quoted poster.

The comments go well beyond non politically correct.


[edit on 7-5-2010 by hotbakedtater]

[edit on 7-5-2010 by hotbakedtater]



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Let's hear it for hotbakedtater for helping us

[color=seafoam]DENY IGNORANCE

....Which seems to be in abundance on this thead.


(I feel like I've left my time period..and been transported back to the 19th Century). You?



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:48 PM
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Every time someone says or acts like they are female I get the disturbing mental image of some 40 something fat guy living in their mothers basement sitting in his underwear doing the typing...hehe

Never assume anything....



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


What strikes me as really funny when I read your post is that I almost included something about that in a response to someone several pages back.



posted on May, 7 2010 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by Aeons
 


I know men are emotional. Women KNOW men are emotional. You don't show it so much in front of one another....but you do in front of US.

So, yes. We know.

And you know what? We don't mind one bit.

ETA: That was a good point, Aeons. Thank you for raising it.


[edit on 5/7/2010 by ladyinwaiting]



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by Aeons
 


I know men are emotional. Women KNOW men are emotional. You don't show it so much in front of one another....but you do in front of US.

So, yes. We know.

And you know what? We don't mind one bit.

[edit on 5/7/2010 by ladyinwaiting]


Men are emotional, but what makes them emotional most women care little about and vice versa. As many have said, both sexes use very different thought processes, and I see that is what might frustrate people into attacking gender.



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 12:20 AM
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Jenna - great topic to discuss and well stated opening post.


To start from the beginning:

My focus for this thread though isn’t sexism in general, but the mistaken belief that being female makes someone incapable of original thought and/or incapable of understanding a topic put forth for discussion. What is it that has caused some posters to believe that's true? More importantly, why is it brought up mid-discussion in an attempt to invalidate and demean female posters for doing nothing more than discussing the topic at hand?


I really think this concept has been answered, both superficially and in-depth. It can be as simple as knowing this is an easy weapon to wield and to do so will almost always divert attention from whatever was being discussed, to this newly charged and direct insult to whomever it is directed (be it one person or a group). It's a quick and dirty tool and can be quite effective. In other cases, the concept stems from a deeply ingrained belief or world view. In either case, it's something that is real and will be something that everyone runs up against at one time, or another. I suppose one's own belief in their self-worth and in who they are, will dictate their reactions to sexism, as a whole.

Now, about that question of emotion vs logic.

I think it foolish to discount one for the other, or to believe that because one exists, the other cannot, in terms of thinking, intelligence, communication, and/or body of knowledge about a subject or situation. As has been mentioned numerous times, but bears constant hammering to allow the concept to sink in (apparently) people have emotions... Despite the attempts to explain the ability of compartmentalization of these emotions in cases of critical thinking or debate, (i.e. men can, while women cannot) it does not negate them. Men and women may or may not be more or less adept at that ability to do so, based upon their experiences in life. However, for multiple styles of communication exist for a reason. To discount one as less worthy than another simply shows the closed-mindedness, sexist, illogical, and/or "insert word" of the person doing so. Those who seek to truly discuss a topic or to truly learn about a subject or who truly embrace the concept of diversity and who are willing to learn from others, will know this to be true. Those who do not, will be face with their own shortcomings in their own lives and will (at some point) have to reconcile with it.



posted on May, 8 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
Every time someone says or acts like they are female I get the disturbing mental image of some 40 something fat guy living in their mothers basement sitting in his underwear doing the typing...hehe

Never assume anything....




Mom Says, I don't have to talk about such things if I don't want to. Mom says I can just simply be me online. Mom says I don't have to reveal my gender or lack there of.

That's what moms says!




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