Cocaine and Tobacco in anceint Egypt?

reply to post by sandri_90
I would also like to see those pics.
Thanks!

reply to post by Kandinsky


At work now so not much time to post

I will admit that there is a way to rule out the nicotine but how do you explain the coc aine and the Olmec carvings?
I will do some more research tonight and see what else I can find.
We must remember that the ancients were not supposed to have the tech. to build the pyramids either........but they are there.
Crossing an ocean during the right time of the year in the right place could have been much easier.

Originally posted by Quadrivium

reply to post by Kandinsky

 

At work now so not much time to post

I will admit that there is a way to rule out the nicotine but how do you explain the coc aine and the Olmec carvings?
I will do some more research tonight and see what else I can find.
We must remember that the ancients were not supposed to have the tech. to build the pyramids either........but they are there.
Crossing an ocean during the right time of the year in the right place could have been much easier.

Exactly. If they could build the pyramids, they could build ships. I personally dont think the pyramids were built in 2500bc, i think that's a load of BS. No one knows what the pyramids were built for, i don't think they were tombs since there are no inscriptions ANYWHERE inside the tombs, that is very odd. Also like you mentioned earlier, just because the egyptians didn't have the boats to sail across the atlantic doesn't mean another civilization could have.

To sail from Egypt/ Israel (the reason i meantion israel is because of the Phoenicians) to the straights of Gibraltor, that is about 2000 miles.

If you sail north to the UK you can reach Greenland in 1000 miles, stopping at the Faroe Islands and Iceland before you reach Greeland. There is only 250 miles you have to travel between land. From Greenland, hug the coast and you can cross the Davis Straight at one point at 200 miles. You are now in America. Hug the coast to get to Boston and down south to south America.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012
Hiya BM2012, there's few points worth making, but I'm sort of worn out making the same points so often. No offence to you...'ATS fatigue' gets everyone sooner or later and I've had a long week.

If they could build the pyramids, they could build ships. I personally dont think the pyramids were built in 2500bc, i think that's a load of BS. No one knows what the pyramids were built for, i don't think they were tombs since there are no inscriptions ANYWHERE inside the tombs, that is very odd.

They did build ships... Evidence for Pharaonic Seagoing Ships at Mersa/Wadi Gawasis, Egypt is an excellent paper to read. It demonstrates (illustrations, images, tables) how advanced Egyptians were in ship-building and the limitations that effectively rule out trans-oceanic journeys.

I've linked the paper a few times as it lends an insight into Egyptian capabilities. More importantly, it highlights the intensive research and subject knowledge of the guys studying ancient Egypt.

You're entitled to believe anything you like about who built the pyramids. Likewise, the people who specialise in the history of Egypt are entitled to conclude Egyptians did indeed build them. Their conclusions are founded in the preceding records and research of scholars going back to Herodotus and beyond. Further support for the conclusions are found in the study of graves, grave goods, human remains and new archaeological discoveries.

If you read about Egyptian expeditions to Punt, you'll understand that trans-oceanic voyages never happened. A simple (to us) journey down the Nile to Eritrea was a huge venture. During Hatshepsut's reign, the voyage to Punt was a major event.

I posted a thread about the *possible* identification of Punt (you posted on it & I starred you)...Long Lost Land of Punt Found? and recommend Kiwifoot's thread on Punt...The Wonderful Land of Punt.

Would an expedition to Punt be so significant if they were engaged in trade with South America? It's a nice idea that Egypt and S. America were trading partners, but there's not enough credible evidence to elevate it beyond an idea.
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Just a secondary point. There's a popular idea that Egyptians didn't build anything or that they didn't do it by themselves. It's all over ATS and lots of books keep making the claims. The theme is how the pyramids are 'too perfect' to be designed and built without 'advanced knowledge.' This is the Great Pyramid...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c878b439818f.jpg[/atsimg]

Does that look like 'perfection?'

The Hall of Ma'at is a great place to find all kinds of research.

Here's the "papers" page.

The article that I want you to read can be found on that page.

It is:
The Stoned Age?

These mummies were almost certainly contaminated in Europe, somehow.

The only mummies that test positive spent some time there.

Harte

I`m back!
I scanned the photos but I have a question: what size should they be? They`re around 1700x1100 now but I want them to be clear. There are a lot of details in them.

reply to post by sandri_90
I would also like to see those pics.
Thanks!

Hi!
Here they are!
As a side note, our guide is an art historiographer, expert in sigillography, lecturer, museographer and guide-interpreter. So when I say they, I mean she and other researchers from the museum.
Anyway, here the a few photos:

This is a piece from a parchment. The last silhouette is an awesome mystery
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/81f00a287d8c.jpg[/atsimg]

And here is the hole parchment.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a7b230b17d32.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is the inside of a tomb. They said that the person depicted here has central-American features.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6fcd0f6c3d6d.jpg[/atsimg]

This is another shot of the same tomb, you can see it behind.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8b4c1e3328a3.jpg[/atsimg]

Other tombs:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/54319615ab63.jpg[/atsimg]

Now, this is another cool one:
If you look close above their heads you can see a WHITE face. Well, we know that Egyptians painted portraits facing to the side. This is another thing they can`t explain and find its origin.
Also, I like the same-size fingers.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/230e34923d8a.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is the close-up.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/10f45731d9c2.jpg[/atsimg]

Moving on to the “amulets found in Egypt” and other statues department. They found out that those amulets were believed to have souls in them. Egyptians thought that some people, when they died, they would go into those amulets so that they could help and guide the living.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0af90cc93b62.jpg[/atsimg]

These are some very interesting statues
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4261bd3a84ef.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/96e01e884705.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/363614a46556.jpg[/atsimg]


And some of my favorite ones
Little blue one
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0fbfcf1719da.jpg[/atsimg]

Egyptian “heaven”
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f339b03e8780.jpg[/atsimg]

And hieroglyphs
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f83c45a71e7f.jpg[/atsimg]

(Sorry I don`t remember all the names and facts, but that was a very fast moving day on a very fast moving schedule in 2008 )

Egyptian heaven

Eh?

That' a very Latin view of afterlife, for one the Egyptians didn't have Cherubs or angels.

If you look close above their heads you can see a WHITE face. Well, we know that Egyptians painted portraits facing to the side. This is another thing they can`t explain and find its origin.
Also, I like the same-size fingers.

Not always, remember that bit a while ago with the face that supposedly looked like Obama?
I have to say, I'm not entirely sure it's a face, very blurry.

Did the guide mention what the surrounding glyphs say? The contexts can reveal a good deal of what they might mean, if not, I can try contacting a fellow I know who reads hieroglyphs.

Originally posted by Harte
The Hall of Ma'at is a great place to find all kinds of research.

Here's the "papers" page.

The article that I want you to read can be found on that page.

It is:
The Stoned Age?

These mummies were almost certainly contaminated in Europe, somehow.

The only mummies that test positive spent some time there.

Harte

History Channel had a program on last night about this very thing. The mummies WEREN'T contaminated in europe. The hair strands were cleaned beforehand to remove any and all surface contaminants. These Mummies also tested positive for coc aine in other ways that suggests that they either inhaled or ingested the drug.

As far as how they got the coc aine, I doubt the egyptians made the voyage themselves, however, never underestimate someone with a boat and a large amount of coc aine. lol

Seriously, I remember about ten years ago someone created some sort of primitive reed boat in the same fashion as either the olmecs or aztecs and used it to travel across the ocean. He got at least a thousand miles away before landing on an island (his destination) My memory is fuzzy, but I believe they had found an island pretty far away from central/south america that also had pyramids on it, and that is where he sailed.

I believe the history of mankind goes back a lot further than the history books would have us believe. I believe that this is the second or third "golden age" of mankind, and some sort of cataclysmic event destroyed our first efforts into modern civilization. Look at the Indus Valley Civilization around where modern day pakistan is located. Pretty crazy the advances they had that many thousands of years ago. How about the Tarim Mummies? Caucasian mummies found in China that date from 1800 BCE to 200 CE?

There is a wealth of history of modern man that we either don't know, or is being suppressed by academia to preserve the history as it has been taught. Columbus discovering America is still being taught in a lot of schools, but we all know that is BS don't we?

reply to post by RuneSpider


That "heaven" picture was found in Egypt.
The guide told us that it was being studied at that time, to find out more about it and its hieroglyphs.

Originally posted by sandri_90
reply to post by RuneSpider

 

That "heaven" picture was found in Egypt.
The guide told us that it was being studied at that time, to find out more about it and its hieroglyphs.

Hiya Sandri, there is no way in the world that painting is Ancient Egyptian. It's in the style of a Renaissance painting, but also reminds me of the Romanticist style. Either way, it's at least 3500 years too late to be Ancient Egyptian.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Ok, thank you!
I`m sorry, my memory is too blurry after 2 years.
I took lots of photos but we were kinda running through the Louvre

i personally think anything is possible. Just because we haven't found ships that we think are sea worthy doesn't mean that they weren't made. How was Hawaii inhabited? I know that there is a few thousand years difference between the inhabitation of Hawaii and Egyptians.
There is also some evidence that humans crossed from Europe to America thousands of years ago. Smithsonian archaeologist Dennis Stanford and colleague Bruce Bradley hypothesize that the Solutrean people in europe 15000+ years ago crossed the Atlantic and came to America. This explains why the Clovis arrowheads and Solutrean arrowheads are so similar. So if the indigenous people of Hawaii could get to Hawaii and Solutrean technology came to the Clovis people, then maybe the Egyptians could have had a connection with s. America. I'm not saying that the Egyptians themselves traveled to america but maybe some other culture did.

reply to post by xenocide

It was the Polynesians that populated Hawaii. If they could do this and populate most of the pacific islands, including the Cook Islands and Easter Island, using multi-hulled out-rigger type boats then why is it such a stretch for people to believe that another, more advanced culture could not do the same?
MOST of the evidence may be circumstantial but there is so much of it that suggest that the ancients had contact with one another. It may be indirect contact by a third party as I stated in the OP but contact non the less.
This site has a number of questionable theories.

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe there older cultures got around alot more than previously thought.

(sorry, could not get it to embed. An yway it's a link to utube about hieroglyphs on cave walls in Austrailia) eidt for link

width="480" height="385"> "http://www.youtube.com/v/R78R6w7IOuQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385">



Not sure if I believe these are the actual work of Egyptians but seeing them and then reading about eucalyptus oil (only found in Australia) being used on Egyptian Mummies, I thought I would add it to the discussion as well.

Now the next link is something new to me entirely and I find it to be most intriguing.


www.ensignmessage.com...


It tells of tablets found in the U.S. before anyone could translate them. We are now able to do so and it proves that people were visiting the Americas long before.
The Davenport Stele is the most interesting. It is called the American Rosetta stone and has three different languages inscribed on it. One of them being Egyptian hieroglyphs



[edit on 8-5-2010 by Quadrivium]

reply to post by Quadrivium


Barry Fell was not a good researcher, and there are many faults with any of his findings.
He would read any marked lines as Ogham, including bear marks on trees.


This has been discussed and discredited fairly thoroughly here before, though I cannot remember the name of the thread.

Originally posted by eightonefive

Originally posted by Harte
The Hall of Ma'at is a great place to find all kinds of research.

Here's the "papers" page.

The article that I want you to read can be found on that page.

It is:
The Stoned Age?

These mummies were almost certainly contaminated in Europe, somehow.

The only mummies that test positive spent some time there.

Harte

History Channel had a program on last night about this very thing. The mummies WEREN'T contaminated in europe. The hair strands were cleaned beforehand to remove any and all surface contaminants. These Mummies also tested positive for coc aine in other ways that suggests that they either inhaled or ingested the drug.

Yes. However, the fact that only mummies that spent time in Europe test positive must be explained.

How is it that only these Egyptians managed to get South American coc aine?

Harte

reply to post by RuneSpider

While I agree that DR. Barry Fell may have been a little “enthusiastic” about his work I do not think that all of it should be discarded. He had some very well respected people working along side of him.
These are a few things I came across and found interesting. I believe there must have been some sort of contact between the “Old” and “New” worlds. There is just too much that points too it.



The Kensington Runestone and the enduring mystery of its origin continue to be the hallmark of the Runestone Museum. The Runestone Museum has been home to the Kensington Runestone since 1958. This is recent history when compared to the span of the Runestone's life. It was discovered in 1898 clutched in the roots of the aspen tree on the Olaf Ohman farm near Kensington (15 miles west of Alexandria). The Kensington Runestone has led researchers from around the world and across the centuries on an exhaustive quest to explain how a runic artifact, dated 1362, could show up in North America.

……………………………….................................................................................................................. ...
Explorations and settlements in ancient America would logically be concentrated on major inland waterways, and evidence of their presence has been found in such locales. A major archeological find, a stele inscribed with ancient Old World languages, was found in 1877 in a burial mound near Davenport, Iowa. Unfortunately, this New World equivalent of the Rosetta Stone was largely ignored because no one could read it. The false dogma that no Old World explorers prior to Columbus could have been on our continent also affected people’s perceptions. If it had been discovered in Europe, it would surely have been recognized for what it was: a tri-lingual archeological stele of ancient cultures. Since it was found in the American Midwest, it had to wait approximately a century to be appreciated. Surprisingly, one of the reasons the stele was initially rejected was that it contained “some signs resembling Hebrew and others resembling Phoenician.”44
This ancient stele contains joint inscriptions in three ancient languages: Iberian-Punic (a language related to and descended from Phoenician-Hebrew), Egyptian, and ancient Libyan.



……………………………….................................................................................................................. ...
Additionally, another stele was unearthed in Oklahoma with reference to the Phoenician and Egyptian gods of Baal and Ra, with an inscription described as “an extract from the Hymn to the Aton by Pharaoh Akhnaton [which]...dates from the thirteenth century B.C.”53 This stele is written in Iberian-Punic (related to Hebrew/Phoenician), but is dated by Fell as “scarcely older than 800 B.C.”54 This stele also supports the biblical account of Israelite-Phoenician-Egyptian cooperation. Why is Pharaoh Akhenaton mentioned in an Egyptian writing in ancient North America? At this point, some striking information about Egyptian history finds a solid parallel in biblical events.

……………………………….................................................................................................................. ...
“Decalogue Tablet” (an artifact bearing an ancient Hebrew inscription of the Ten Commandments) unearthed in Ohio in 1860. Besides having the Ten Commandments inscribed on it, the tablet includes a depiction of “an individual meant to represent Moses [which] has been carved in considerable detail on the ‘front’ of the tablet...[and] a ‘handle’ at the bottom of the tablet, which may have been constructed to accommodate a strap.”71 The presence of a handle on this tablet indicates that it served as a portable object, which could accompany worshippers of God as they were traveling in ancient America. This “Decalogue Tablet” was found with grave goods in an ancient American burial mound. Its presence suggests that the person interred in the mound may have been an ancient Levite present with Israelite explorers or colonists in ancient America. It has been noted that the Hebrew inscription also has some characteristics of “the old Phoenician alphabets.”72 A Hebrew inscription with Phoenician features is exactly what ancient Israelite inscriptions should be like. The Israelites were close allies of the Phoenicians and shared a common culture and navy from the time of King David until the fall of Israel circa 721 B.C. Their artifacts would naturally exhibit the traits of both cultures.

………………………………............................................................................................
Pictures and text from
stevenmcollins.com...



[edit on 10-5-2010 by Quadrivium]

OK I am going to jump totally off topic for a sec.
In case You have not notices I am new to ATS.
I am currently in need of some help and I hope you will have patience with me.
Can any of you tell me or give me a link on how to embed pics and videos?
Sorry for the inconvenience.