Hawaii governor announces 'exact' place of Obama birth. No wonder there is confusion!

reply to post by AirbornIV


No, because if he isn't a natural born citizen, he is not qualified for President and should be in prison.

reply to post by christianpatrick


My birth certificate list my race. They all should.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by TruthSeeker8300]

I was born at 3:23 am Jan 21st,1954 in Bellvue Hospital in Manhattan,New York City,in New York State,in the USA and I have a birth certificate signed by the attending Doctor "Richard Thwait",on it are my mother and father's true names.

So I can prove at any time to anyone that I am A USA citizen by birth.
John Mc Cain has a birth certificate signed by a military doctor at Fort Howard in the Panama Canal zone(USA territory at the Time).
So John Mc Cain can prove he is a USA citizen by birth.

So anybody who voted for some one who cannot release or show his true birth certificate is a A Hole for voting for them,and did this country no good.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Well then that furthers the argument does it not Jenna? If birthers refuse to believe a state verified short form birth certificate clearly showing that the president was born in Hawaii, what difference would it make with a state verified long form? Unless people intend to nitpick on other information listed.

In anycase showing the long form birth certificate will not end it for the birters, neither will it end the tonne of other conspiracies mounted about this president by the same individuals. Its a moot really.

I have no doubt there are a minority of people out there that would be satisfied once the long form is shown, but that will not end the conspiracy for most and it will not end the long list of other conspiracies.

I understand where you are coming from. But in all honestly, I think it would put the VAST majority of those questioning his eligibility to rest. His long-form copy Birth Certificate complete with Doctor's name, signature and hospital location. This would put the issue to rest for many people. It would give lots of people peace of mind. It would make the whole issue die down.

[edit on 7/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

To answer your question, compare the images you posted of Obama's Certification of Live Birth to this Certificate of Live Birth. That is the difference between the two. The Certificate provides more detailed information than the Certification does.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Jenna]

Um, no

Primary Documents
Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual's birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person's birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

- hawaii.gov...
According to this wording on this official State Government of Hawaii web page, the term "birth certificate" is an "umbrella" term covering both Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth. They are not the same thing, but both are Birth Certificates. The Certification of Live Birth is just as valid as the Certificate of Live Birth, is just as much a Birth Certificate, and is considered prima facie evidence of Hawaiian birth for all legal purposes (as clearly stated on the bottom of the form), not only the Hawaiian Home Lands program.

In set notation:

• Certificates of Live Birth ⊂ Birth Certificates
• Certifications of Live Birth ⊂ Birth Certificates
• Birth Certificates = Certifications of Live Birth ⋃ Certificates of Live Birth

source

That was in response to -

Obtaining a Record of Birth
You can replace a lost birth certificate by filing out the necessary form, which can be obtained from the online Vital Statistics Records from the state where you were born. Once the form is filled out, you can mail the document in along with the searching and processing fee. The copy of your birth record will be sent to you within a few weeks.

Considerations
For a certification of live birth document to be legal, it must be from a State Registrar with a stamp, seal and signed by a person commissioned by the government, preferably the registrar. While having a certificate of live birth is important, it is not proof alone of a person's identity. For identification purposes, a person must also have a government issued ID, social security number and a birth certificate.


Certificate of Live Birth Vs. Certification of Live Birth

Obviously this poster read all of this wrong because neither can be used as ID. The birth certificate referred to at the end of this little quote means EITHER the certificate or certification of live birth. The above poster was trying to point out the difference between the two by posting what is supposed to explain how they are different from a BC and unfortunately, Hawaii posted for us exactly what they mean so you can just read what it really means for yourself.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply to post by christianpatrick


You can be native born, which is what he claims to be, naturalized, or natural born. There are 3 types of American citizens.

His statement, in his own words, he calls himself a Native Citizen, born of a father that is a British Patroit.

I think he was born in Hawaii, as well, but his father was not naturalized, and the law clearly states "born of two parents that are citizens".

He is indeed Native Born, which is *not* Natural Born.

There is no definition of Natural Born, except to be born of two US citizens, but by defining it in court cases through the Supreme Court, it has never been defined any other way that what people claim.

The meaning of a phrase is how it is repeatedly defined.

An excellent way to explain this is "teabeaggers".

We all know the vulgar definition of it, we all know it is used to slander, but it does also indeed now hold a different meaning, it is being defined. The only difference in the words "teabagger" and "Natural Born" is that teabagger was previously defined, even if vulgar. "Natural Born has never been previously defined any other way.

agggh

That's all I have to say.. agggh...

Well isn't this just happy. No offense to either side, we won't ever know the truth of the matter. He's in now, and nothing short of the hand of Impeachment (which will never happen he hasn't done anything to warrant it - yet) will remove this "person" from office.

I got an interesting e-message stating I was racist for not liking "him" and being all in love with the idea of "him" (not on this site, on another for the record) and I will state I am far from a racist, I would have voted Mr Powell in in a heartbeat had he run, as he was more Q U A L I F I E D.

Mr Obama has a lot of character flaws, the least of which is he's utterly clueless when it comes to policy matters and the like. But will we ever know the truth? No..

We have much bigger issues now to worry about than whether or not Mr Obama is legally there, noone will figure that issue out, so save it for the 2012 elections, when it will again be an issue due to new legislation, he will have to prove his citizenship above and beyond and that will be that.

For now we have a collapsing economy, a healthcare debacle, and wars about to break out all over the globe.. An oil spill that has turned into the great blame game, and people being caught left and right in scandal after scandal. The world is in a bad place, and worrying now about something we can remedy in 2 years is not useful. In 2012, there will be a Presidential Election... Mr Obama can be (and I predict will be) voted out of office, in accordance with the rule of law, at that time. Until then, hold your breaths and try to fix these more urgent threats to the country.

Just tired of all the diversion from the important issues.

Originally posted by idontKNOWanything
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Have you seen the cert claiming what hospital he was at? Right, you have not.

My birth certificate does not name the hospital or doctor either so why should I expect it on anyone else's?

Have you seen any of his college documents? Right, you have not.

I was not aware a BC could contain college information. Enlighten me.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489, his first one after being president.
www.freerepublic.com...

So all the presidents using that same executive order are hiding their place of birth? Please explain to me what you are trying to prove here as it applies to more than just Obama.

www.urbandictionary.com...
As far as the term "birther" goes, it implies the person being called that title actually does not believe Obama was born here. Also, many people use the term as a derogatory term. What they mean to imply by it is that the person is too thick to see proof right in front of their eyes or something. I have also seen/heard it used meaning the "birther" is nuts. Lastly, it is an unfair label since people who use it, do not typically know much about the person they call "birther". It is a way of trying to lump all the people who do not agree with a certain view point into one category.

Hmmmm, well if the shoe fits...

Either way, I do not fall into that category simply because I do not presume to know either way. Anyone who claims they "know" he was born there, who was not actually there for the birth, is simply deluding themselves. The evidence is not finite in either respect.

And it never will be no matter what is produced or uncovered and THAT is why you think "birther" is an insult. You know damn well that you will never accept anything that proves he was born in the US. You will always have "doubts" until proof of his Kenyan birth or he is out of office. That to me sounds like someone who refuses to accept evidence.

I have not seen you debunk the evidence for him being born in Hawaii. If you are so sure it is not real evidence, then explain to all of us what is wrong with it.

Wait a minute... I thought that all of this information was protected by privacy laws and that these public officials were not able to comment on any of it under Hawaiian law, except if Obama himself signed a waiver or release. So, either these officials are breaking the law or OBama has authorized the information to be released. If the latter is the case, then show us the Birth Certificate and NOT the COLB!

Originally posted by Son of Will
I didn't intend to hurt your feelings.

Why do you think my feelings were hurt? I just repeated the same snotty little snide remark you made back to you. Did you use it because your feelings were hurt? Mine are just fine. Maybe you see something I do not?

I was trying to help you form a logical statement, because you hadn't done so yet. "THIS TOPIC" refers to just that, this topic! It's a large topic with many claims.

What? "This topic" is 'Hawaii governor announces 'exact' place of Obama birth. No wonder there is confusion!'

That seems pretty specific to me. The topic is where Obama was born. What else do you think this topic covers? What is the thread title where you are posting?

The money spend in defens of THIS TOPIC refers specifically to the money spent on COVERING UP THINGS ABOUT WHERE HE WAS BORN. It seems really simple to me. Just read the thread title, the OP and most of the posts in this thread and that should help you figure out what "this topic" is actually about.

You never provided context of any kind, my friend.

The context is this thread about a specific topic.

Hence the question.

Hence the thread TITLE and subsequent discussion of named topic.

Thanks for (finally) making an actual statement, which can actually be answered or responded to.

...


...


So where is the answer?

Originally posted by Riposte
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

Haha, here you are again, trying to defend the indefensible.

NATURAL born citizen, not NATIVE born citizen.

What? I am really not sure what you are referring to here.

There is a difference. The place of birth is irrelevant.

That part there makes no sense. Thanks for playing, how about some nice parting gifts.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost


I understand where you are coming from. But in all honestly, I think it would put the VAST majority of those questioning his eligibility to rest. His long-form copy Birth Certificate complete with Doctor's name, signature and hospital location. This would put the issue to rest for many people. It would give lots of people peace of mind. It would make the whole issue die down.

So what you are saying is that anyone who has lost their long form has no way of actually proving they are a citizen? Does that mean people like me in states that do not issue long form copies are totally screwed? My brother had a house fire and lost all of his papers a few years ago. You saying he can never be president because there is no way he can replace his long form even though he actually kept it with him for 40 years? Anyone whos parents lose theirs before they even see it themselves can not be president if they come from states that do not issue long form copies?

Really, you have to accept reality. If you are really interested in the truth you will stop listening to talking points and actually look into what a short form is, what it means, and why it is or is not valid.

Good morning everyone:

Just checking some site this morning and low and behold this appeared:

See Michelle call Barack a 'Kenyan'

Source: www.wnd.com...

At about two minutes into the video, she says, "What it reminded me of was our trip to Africa, two years ago, and the level of excitement that we felt in that country – the hope that people saw just in the sheer presence of somebody like Barack Obama – a Kenyan, a black man, a man of great statesmanship who they believe could change the fate of the world." The video apparently was from a Tampa, Fla., fundraiser in December 2007.

Now, in the interest of good faith towards my fellow ATSers, I AM NOT going to put the YouTube vid here. I could have easily started a thread (if there wasn't one already etc) but I am sure some members just might have an heart attack or something from blood vessles bursting.

So, let the hacking of the messenger begin as I only put on her WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAYING. In this case, I present Mrs. Obama. So, who will be the first one to post the video in their reply or EVEN start a thread?

Oh I forgot, this video also contains Mrs. Obama cutting on the US (again).
She also blasted the United States.

"We are still living in a country that is too mean. You know we are not kind to one another and politics reminds us of that," she said. "I don't have faith that Americans want more than what we have. … We don't engage." She also described Americans as "too cynical" and "too divided" and said they are "led by fear."

(and then there is ANOTHER video from 2008--I'll let you see what she says in that one).

reply to post by anon72


i thought that was debunked as just a nationality sort of thing... I could be wrong, but I remember a thread or two on it here..

I found this reply in a forum which I thought was interesting also.

Maybe someone who actually would know (vai works in this area etc):
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Short form" proves Obama is lying

I'm an RN and worked in hospitals for 20 years and I beleive the "short form" PROVES, legally, that Obama is lying. Here's why:

"Short forms" are NEVER issued for hospital births, ONLY "Long forms" complete with the Physician's signature and the specific hospital where the birth occured. Patients don't get a choice and it is not arbitrary. This is a matter of LAW.

Every baby born in a hospital is by law and hospital policy assigned by a Physician who is legally responsible for the mother and baby's medical care. They carefully document the birth and this record then automatically generates a LONG FORM birth certificate, NEVER a "short form".

Short forms are issued ONLY to babies NOT born in hospitals. That's why they don't have the specific hospital and Physician signature. If it's for a home birth, it will mention this location. Obama's "short form" birth certificate doesn't even mention the hospital, much less the Physician.

Obama CAN'T claim a hospital, Physician attended birth and claim a "Short Form" birth certificate at the same time. It's IMPOSSIBLE and PROVES he's lying...legally! Even investigators seem to be missing this fact.
"Long Form" with Physician signature = hospital; "Short From"= NOT born in any hospital in the U.S.

Spread the word!

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
So what you are saying is that anyone who has lost their long form has no way of actually proving they are a citizen? Does that mean people like me in states that do not issue long form copies are totally screwed? My brother had a house fire and lost all of his papers a few years ago. You saying he can never be president because there is no way he can replace his long form even though he actually kept it with him for 40 years? Anyone whos parents lose theirs before they even see it themselves can not be president if they come from states that do not issue long form copies?

If your brother was running for POTUS and their were reasonable doubts about his past and he claimed his long-form was burned in a house fire so all he has is a COLB, then yes I would be as if not more suspicious. Remember that this is not simply "where he was born" issue if true. If true that he was born somewhere else, then a whole range of other issues automatically get triggered. What else has he lied about? What else about his past was made up? What are the implications for the American people (and worldwide population) if the USA has elected somebody that is not eligible for one of the most powerful positions that exist?

Really, you have to accept reality. If you are really interested in the truth you will stop listening to talking points and actually look into what a short form is, what it means, and why it is or is not valid.

Perception is one of those things that can radically change given access to certain information. My views on the events of 9/11 are astronomically different now than to what they were in the weeks after it took place. I would have labelled you as crazy and delusional back then if you had said some of the things I now know are cold, hard fact.

Like I have said before, evidence so far suggests that he probably was Born in Hawaii - but this is based on the information that we know, and have been given access to. There are millions of people around the world who have questions about his past. For example, his name change, his enrolment at a university in Indonesia, pictures of him praying with family dressed in religious garments. Why is he not being open about these things when he promised transparency? One of the scariest things is how fast this guy went from virtual unknown to extremely popular and renowned candidate worthy of being POTUS.

[edit on 7/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by anon72
I found this reply in a forum which I thought was interesting also.

Maybe someone who actually would know (vai works in this area etc):
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Short form" proves Obama is lying

I'm an RN and worked in hospitals for 20 years and I beleive the "short form" PROVES, legally, that Obama is lying. Here's why:

"Short forms" are NEVER issued for hospital births, ONLY "Long forms" complete with the Physician's signature and the specific hospital where the birth occured. Patients don't get a choice and it is not arbitrary. This is a matter of LAW.

Every baby born in a hospital is by law and hospital policy assigned by a Physician who is legally responsible for the mother and baby's medical care. They carefully document the birth and this record then automatically generates a LONG FORM birth certificate, NEVER a "short form".

Short forms are issued ONLY to babies NOT born in hospitals. That's why they don't have the specific hospital and Physician signature. If it's for a home birth, it will mention this location. Obama's "short form" birth certificate doesn't even mention the hospital, much less the Physician.

Obama CAN'T claim a hospital, Physician attended birth and claim a "Short Form" birth certificate at the same time. It's IMPOSSIBLE and PROVES he's lying...legally! Even investigators seem to be missing this fact.
"Long Form" with Physician signature = hospital; "Short From"= NOT born in any hospital in the U.S.

Spread the word!

LOL!!!!!!

That is the funniest thing I ever read. Short forms are only issued to people not born in hospitals? Why the hell do I and so many other NY state residents have one then?

LOL!!!!
Oh god that was good! What hospital does she work in? What state is it in? Did she provide a name or was it just someone on a forum saying they are an RN and then spouting all that crap?

reply to post by anon72


Hey, OP are you having a hard time finding the proof of your lie? I am not seeing where you backed it up or admitted it was not true yet you are just trucking right on through.

How can you possibly be interested in the truth when you will not address such a simple issue?

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
If your brother was running for POTUS and their were reasonable doubts about his past and he claimed his long-form was burned in a house fire so all he has is a COLB, then yes I would be as if not more suspicious. Remember that this is not simply "where he was born" issue if true. If true that he was born somewhere else, then a whole range of other issues automatically get triggered. What else has he lied about? What else about his past was made up? What are the implications for the American people (and worldwide population) if the USA has elected somebody that is not eligible for one of the most powerful positions that exist?

So when you looked into it and NY state dept of healt officials explained to you why the short form is valid, what would you think? Would you decide they made up a huge lie that the entire state is keeping for them just to protect my brother?

Perception is one of those things that can radically change given access to certain information. My views on the events of 9/11 are astronomically different now than to what they were in the weeks after it took place. I would have labelled you as crazy and delusional back then if you had said some of the things I now know are cold, hard fact.

This is not about 9/11 and comparing it does a dis-service to either.

Like I have said before, evidence so far suggests that he probably was Born in Hawaii - but this is based on the information that we know, and have been given access to. There are millions of people around the world who have questions about his past. For example, his name change, his enrolment at a university in Indonesia, pictures of him praying with family dressed in religious garments. Why is he not being open about these things when he promised transparency? One of the scariest things is how fast this guy went from virtual unknown to extremely popular and renowned candidate worthy of being POTUS.

Their are millions of people around the world that believe in a god. The thing is, they do not believe in the same god. Millions of people are either wrong on a regular basis or heaven is crowded as hell.



[edit on 7-5-2010 by K J Gunderson]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


So because other presidents also hid their records it some how makes Obama legit? It would be one thing if he willingly showed his proof before he was elected. He did not. He was asked several times during his campaign and never showed it. I don't see how you proved anything.


Yes I know how urbandictionary works. I was not citing anything important other than the word birther, which another member asked about. Thanks for not knowing what you are talking about. I think the urbandic definitions summed up the point I was trying to make about people like you, thinking that just because someone is not convinced means they have some kind of defect. I think people like you blindly accepting something means you have a defect though.

Originally posted by idontKNOWanything
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

So because other presidents also hid their records it some how makes Obama legit? It would be one thing if he willingly showed his proof before he was elected. He did not. He was asked several times during his campaign and never showed it. I don't see how you proved anything.

Who asked during the campaign and was refused? You do know he did have to prove he was eligable but not to you personally, right? Sources would be great!

Yes I know how urbandictionary works. I was not citing anything important other than the word birther, which another member asked about. Thanks for not knowing what you are talking about. I think the urbandic definitions summed up the point I was trying to make about people like you, thinking that just because someone is not convinced means they have some kind of defect. I think people like you blindly accepting something means you have a defect though.

Well there are many times in conversation when people that do not believe Obama was born in Hawaii are referred to as a group. What would you like to be called?