Win the argument! Libertarianism versus Socialism

This is a thread dedicated to those who support Libertarianism, Minarchism, Classical liberalism, Minimal government in both personal and economics

AND

Socialists, Social liberals, Statists, Big government in economics while small in personal

Let's see who can have a very sincere and intellectual argument that points out...

*The flaws of the other system
*When/Where/Why their system has failed
*Philosophically why their side is wrong

and

*The superiority of your system
*When/Where/Why your system has succeeded
*Philosophically why your side is right

Then pick a few important political issues(at least 5) and describe you and your philosophies stance on the issue. It should look like this...


My political philosophy is __________.

The flaws of __________ are...

When/Where/Why __________ has failed...

Philosophically __________ is wrong because...

The superiority of __________ is...

When/Where/Why __________ has succeeded...

Philosophically __________ is right because...

1. Fiat currency (example)
2. Minimum wage (example)
3. Homosexual marriage (example)
4. Gun rights (example)
5. Welfare state (example)


I can't wait to see who can win this!

Use the stars to show how much you support that posters argument, the more stars he earns the better the philosophical argument

[edit on 5/4/10 by Misoir]

Well....

Let's start with the biggest Fact.

Socialism = Bankruptcy...... over, and over and over again,

Examples: All collapsing nations collapsing due to socialist policies (social nets, subsidies, welfare, etc.) Do I need to give specific examples or can everyone just read the news and understand debt due to social programs?

The Host dies when overwhelmed by parasites (subsidies, corporate and personal giveaways, bailouts, handouts, freebies, special interest gifts, insane pensions and benefits for government workers & politicians, etc.)

Are we done?


Ben Franklin: "When the people (should read "certain people") find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."






[edit on 4-5-2010 by infolurker]

[edit on 4-5-2010 by infolurker]

Libertarianism.

First off, the governance of oneself is the most important component of Libertarianism. Responsibility for all your actions and for all your own needs.

The aspects I would like pointed out is there are two basic components of society.

Economic and Social. The Libertarian ideal is based on one tenet, freedom. Freedom to do as YOU see fit. Now, with this freedom comes something that many are afraid of, responsibility.

The basic tenet, that everyone has the Absolute Rights of Life, Liberty and Property. The only criminal acts are to hurt someone or to infringe upon another's Absolute Rights.

Economic component. Libertarians believe in a sound currency based on a commodity. In the past it has always been gold or silver. No other commodity has ever been tried so no other example could be pointed to. As for the currency and things like usury, this is also a choice made by individuals in this type society. There is no central bank and there is no real central planning. If a component of society feels something is needed, they pool resources as needed. In the central government component, they are given a list of powers and NO MORE.

Now, I would like to point out that the gold standard was phased out in the 60 and 70's. Do you see any correlation to our current economic problems. Some would argue that capitalism has brought us to this point. But true capitalism has never existed. To point this out, I am just going to state that by the very basic tenet of Libertarianism, if you commit fraud or other forms of crime on the economic component, you would be charged under this. Also by the tenet of Libertarianism, the fruits of your labor are yours. The property that you own is yours. These things CANNOT be taken from you. Also, on the economic side the government is kept to the smallest possible size to keep the damage that ALL governments cause, to a minimum.

Social Component. Libertarians in all there glory have moved beyond the control parameters that other forms of government so wickedly embrace. If you do not harm another or infringe on there rights, you can do as you please. That is pretty much it. Cannot get much more free than that.

Now, with such a simple system, law is very simple. Very basic and VERY fair. All one has to do is prove in a Common Law court that you have been wronged or your rights have been infringed.

Now, some would argue but what about the downtrodden? Well, that is where Charity or groups of individuals can make there own decisions on their systems they would like to set up. No one is prevented from doing anything socially. Also, with such a free economic system where the government, does not steal your labor or your property, it is MUCH easier to protect your future.

As for examples.

I point to what I think the greatest governmental structures and Libertarian Documents ever, in the United States of America and it's founding documents.

Now, the downfall of this type of society. Well, it being the most free it also is the most susceptible to infiltration of totalitarians. But with this type society, the most important component is KNOWLEDGE and RESPONSIBILITY it requires of EVERY individual in it. The citizenry must be active in its protection or you get those that want to try and take control of the society for their own power. There are always control and power freaks in society. They think they know what is best for you. The citizenry must be stalwart in their endeavors to keep the tyrants at bay.

I point to the last 100 to 150 years in the US of A as the example of the last paragraph.

Now, over these past years where the US of A has faltered, information and its dissemination was hard to come by. With the invention of so many things over the last 30-40 years, we have reached a point in time that I believe our society would be catapulted into a new renaissance if we were to return to our roots.

I would like to finish to say that this world does not need tyrants to protect us. We need individual citizens to take their responsibilities seriously so that we can move into the next phase of our evolution.

A member's name here comes to mind-

Tired of Control Freaks.