Unamerican people need to leave America

When you hear inane arguments about how being a true patriot or American means trusting your government and supporting your troops (regardless of what they do), then you can be sure pretty elaborate brain washing is going on, and it's working. Why do you think they call it "programming? on TV and radio? You watch 'programs' everyday, don't you? These are all meant to create a certain mindset in the viewer, whether it's to believe certain things that are favorable to the powers that be, or simply buy a particular brand of shoes, deodorant, or frozen pizza. Most of us have no doubt read about the billions of dollars the US military spends each year on fake news to win hearts and minds of their enemies. Only problem is, instead of just being employed against Iraqis or North Koreans, it's in full swing domestically too.

It stands to reason, if knowing and exercising our natural rights runs contrary to the nefarious purposes of our leaders, then they would certainly do everything possible to prevent our enlightenment on this subject. Enter public schools, whose curricula beats the Socialist, nationalist drum loud enough to drown out independent critical thinking. I actually read the following in my daughter's 4th grade 'Social Studies' textbook the other day: "The purpose of government is to tell people how to live and what to do."

So this is the programming against which we labor when we speak the truth. Everyone has been contaminated with more or less of the same, regardless of which country they call home. Like heavy metal poisoning, such mental pollutants can take months or years to be flushed from our systems. In the meantime, we will literally "not know that we don't know."

So show the intellectual sleepers a little consideration, and realize that "where they are, you once were." (with apologies to Battlestar Gallatica).

well, with all the available information I have examined. that would be the entire US GOVT.
*I have always respected authority. I have always assumed there is a certian amount of corruption going on all the time. and it was just a measure of time before they too would face the music and justice would prevail.
but when I have a deputy sheriff threaten me with arrest over a registration issue, was the just another brick on the scale. whats next. $50 or a pistol whip...?
I thought long and hard at filing terrorism charges against the state of florida. and then I was reminded that my county is pro federal. it would appear. because the people never win in our courts. its nothing but a big money machine. has very little to do with Justice, all sides loose in our courts. is the gest I get from the 30 or so people I know who went through the system. (I know a lady who is on probation for maryJane, who consumes regularly and has to pee in a bottle, and never passes the test and remains unemployed -- so, what does that say, your tapped out and we dont want you anymore...? or we like you and your untouchable...?
or maybe for all I know - she could be working for them.... either way it makes no nevermind to me.
I see too many double standards - so I ask you, is Corruption ... UnAmerican... ???
is mind control, media advertising, communism ... UnAmerican.
show me when "we the people" where ever consulted successfully on anything - its always been UnAmerican - running America.



[edit on 9-5-2010 by Anti-Evil]

You are obviously a MORON and I will tell you why, slowly.

First of all, I will bet that you are an illegal alien. that being said, you don't know jack about this country.... Nobody is saying that these ILLEGALS don't have rights. S&^T, they have more protection then an American citizen. What people are saying is that they have BROKEN THE LAW and there are consequences. You talk about America and the natural law...this has nothing to do with that my friend. It has to do with the WRITTEN LAW.

As an American, if I break the law, there is a consequence. If these ILLEGAL aliens want to be Americans and live in America then they should be subject to abiding by OUR LAW.

You are hypocritcal...why shoud all these people that came to America ILLEGALLY not have to abide by our rules? If they want to live here, then they should have to follow the LAW.. it is plain and simple.

If I drive drunk I go to jail. If I kill somebody I go to jail. If I speed, I get a speeding ticket. I am American and therefore if I don't follow the laws I pay the consequences.

All these illegal aliens want to live in America, want to work in America, want to live on welfare in America, get healthcare in America, yet they don't want to follow our rules and our laws.

It is very scary to see the ignorance of people today...It is funny when people try to use the arguement, "we are all immagrants" helloooooo there is a big difference between coming over here LEGALLY and sneaking accross the border ILLEGALLY.

These people should be punished, and thrown back over the border from where they came from. If they get caught again they should be thrown in jail for 10 years. Maybe then they would think twice about sneaking over here again or in the first place. The reason they are all coming here is because they know they can get away with being here. If there were consequences we wouldn't have such a problem.

On top of that, there is a huge list of Mexicans etc. waiting to come here legally. The reason that list is so long is because of the huge problem here with illegals. If this was under control, more people would be able to get in America the right way.

Of course, with dumbama running the country, that won't happen anytime soon.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Nobody is discriminating based on where people are from...what is wrong with you people? We are saying that they are here ILLEGALLY, what the hell don't you people get.

You are saying that, eventhough they have broken the law, they have passed through into our country, we have NO CLUE who these people are, what diseases they may have, who they may have killed or raped, that it is okay.

I think you are discrimination against Americans. If it is okay for these illegals to break the law, so then why isn't it okay for Americans to.

If illegals should be given amnesty, why can't Americans be given the same thing?

ok all i have to say is, Illegal immigrants is still illegal, but the natural law thing is correct, but if People from other nations want to come to USA to live/work whatever, they have to do it legally, the other problem here is companies who knowingly hire illegals for a lower wage. These companies also need to be punished, and not just illegals, or at leas the illegals given a chance to do so legally.. it is to me un-American to treat everyone or specific group in a very mean or dis-respectful way.. thats my 2 cents..

SpectreDC - integrate with the Native Americans or leave America, they are the original, true Americans. Everyone else is descended from immigrants, most who came without permission from the Natives, didn't learn their language, socialize with them or respect their ways

(One Brit pointing out the ignorance and hypocrisy of your post)

reply to post by mac2010

It takes a LOT more than two cents to become an American citizen. If you're not already wealthy (that is, if you really need to become American), just forget about being able to afford it. That is why "illegal humans" are here. My GOD am I sick of seeing this "What part of 'illegal' don't you understand?" BS. These people are the tired, the POOR, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched mass of their teeming shore! Should we scratch "The New Colossus" off of all those plaques, or just demolish the Statue of Liberty outright? What does it stand for now?? "Give me your monied, your privileged??" I'd much rather have my neighborhood filled with recently-ex-Mexicans than with Swiss bankers. "Oh, sorry, you're not worth anything as a person unless you have a few thousand dollars you can part with!"

PUH-LEEEEEEEEASE!!!!

You people and your priorities, I swear. Stop listening to politicians and pundits who are paid a salary just to mislead you!! Look in your heart; if you actually see hatred for people just because MAN'S law says someone is worth less than you, I couldn't possibly pity you more. I really want to just scream sometimes because of the amount of pure raw unadulterated unjustified HATRED I see pouring out of my "fellow" Americans. There's only one thing that disgusts me more than that, and it's so disgusting I can't even type it here.

And don't tell me they're all dirty diseased criminal drug-running pedophiles or something, because there are already thirty or forty million natural-born Americans, or even more, who are just as bad or worse. Every country everywhere already has a huge percentage of "illegal citizens," can't you see that?? You think we should shun fifteen million of these poor wretched masses because a few thousand are evil?? Do you have a conscience of your own, or did you let Fox News implant one into you??

Some days, I just can't type fast enough. And sorry for the rant, Mac. It wasn't all directed at you.

[edit on 5/11/2010 by Thought Provoker]

Whoever actually came up with these Natural Laws? Because I really don't see how they are so natural if we orginally made them. Maybe there are rights that we are somehow given by god, fate, whatever you do believe, but we have no way of knowing exactly what they are. What you know as Natural Laws is the opinions of your ancestors.

Your government makes these laws and you abide by them. Natural Laws is just another name for some laws the US made a long time ago. What I'm trying to say here is that you shouldn't look upon these as some kind of holy rights, they are made by the same people who defined all your other rights that aren't "natural."

It's all up to the debate of the people with the consent of the government in which you reside. Personally, I'm not all against the immigrants, but quite frankly they are currently causing problems in an already problematic time. I respect all of your nobility in defending the poverty-living people that work hard to get here, but we must also look after our own nation so that it won't become like the one they are coming from.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Either that, or educate yourselves.

What do I find unamerican though? The following statement.

but we do need to be able to prove who is entitled to partake in these said freedoms. (speaking about immigration)

It's evident to me when people say things like this that they don't understand anything about America. No, you don't understand anything about America so don't reply saying you do.

The fundamental principles founded in this country are not laws given to us by the state. They are not deemed "okay" by any single entity. These principles, in ideology (not in practice, sadly) were not attributed to only Americans. They were not only attributed to white males. They were attributed to men and women, blacks and whites, gays and straights, christians and atheists, because all of these labels and categories exist under another label: HUMAN

Our freedoms are not given to us by a piece of paper. They are not allowed to us by the president, congress, or the supreme court. They are not allowed by a religion or a political belief.

I'm going to say this next part slowly, because this is where people seem to stop reading or start having trouble understanding, or simply refuse TO understand.

Our rights aren't "granted", "allowed", "given", "acquired", or any similar terms. They are not LEGAL rights.

The concept of "inalienable rights", of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", is not LEGAL. They are not positive rights. It is NATURAL.

American principles are founded on NATURAL LAW. Natural law, as the name identifies it as, is the law of nature, the law of God.

Natural law is not granted upon anyone, because they are inherent in us.



I am so sick and tired of hypocritical, sycophantic, uneducated pieces of trash who have no idea what they are talking about and yet act as if what they say is self-evident. You want to know what is self-evident? Likely the part where in some old documents people don't care about now that say "We hold these truths to be self-evident." HMMM, I WONDER WHAT TRUTHS THEY WERE SAYING WERE SELF-EVIDENT?

What is so FREAKING PATHETIC ABOUT YOU PEOPLE IS THAT THIS DOESN'T TAKE ADVANCE EDUCATION TO KNOW!

You don't NEED to take a class in ethics to learn about this!

For freakin' sakes, WIKIPEDIA HAS THIS STATED ABOUT NATURAL LAW!

"The essence of Declarationism is that the founding of the United States is based on Natural law."




When you say someone doesn't deserve the rights we have in this country, it is unamerican. When you say that someone needs to be granted our rights, it is unamerican. When you say that someone isn't allowed our rights because they have done something heinous, it is unamerican.

Not only is it unamerican, it ALLOWS those who take OUR rights AWAY from us to CONTINUE doing so because you forget where our rights come from. You forget what it means to be an American. You forget that the rights we have, not as an American but as a human, is not granted to us but is instilled in us from creation, whether you think our creation was random or divine.

For everyone one of you quoting and humping the legs of our founding fathers that has said anything like the quoted bit at the top, you are not an American and you are a hypocrite. For anyone you has said that another is unamerican for whatever reason, yet has said anything like the quoted bit at the top, you are not an American.

Because none of you understand our principles. None of you understand the ideologies that founded this country. All you do is parrot the talk of those who are trying to destroy our liberties we inherently have as HUMANS. And if you think these rights shouldn't be given to others that aren't American, you are a hypocrite. You are not an American. You don't understand what this country stands for, or at the very least once stood for. But unlike you, just because you don't understand these things, I don't

reply to post by Cains


Who ever came up with these Natural Laws? Who ever came up with gravity? It must have only come into play sometime after Sir Isaac Newton wrote it down on paper, thereby legislating for humanity some sort of anchor to this world. Monkeys don't swing from tree to tree wondering who ever gave them the right to do so, and lions don't hunt their prey wondering who gave them the right to do so, and when a rogue lion decides to take on a village of humans, humans don't wonder who gave them the right to hunt that lion. Dogs don't wonder who gave them the right to wag their tails and remain forever loyal to the humans that love them, they just do it by right.

Claiming Natural Law is just some name for some laws made a long time ago by U.S. legislatures reveals a profound ignorance on your part of how far back the understanding of Natural Rights go. We get what you're trying to say, and you are saying that we should not view our Rights as sacrosanct and sacred, and one can only imagine why you make this argument, but it sure as hell ain't in defense of human Rights and freedom, for surely as long as Inalienable Rights are understood to be so, governments will have a hell of a time convincing people to give them up, but if they listen to you and others like you, then it is far easier to convince them to give up their Rights for some unnamed "greater good".

You spend two paragraphs attempting to dismiss Natural Rights, and then turn around and speak of consent of the governed, seemingly not understanding that if the governed have no rights outside what is granted them by government, that government needs no consent to govern.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Wow, this may be valid in the future..or probably applied when the sky was the limit, like during the 90s are sumthin.

That idealism don't apply anymore, nope. It's cake by any means necessary.

reply to post by cenpuppie

It's cake by any means necessary.

As if that's not some pie in the sky idealism. But good for you for advocating such corruption, while dismissing the Natural and Inalienable Rights of all humans.

reply to post by brotherjohnthebaptist

but we do need to be able to prove who is entitled to partake in these said freedoms.

Are they human? Then they have these freedoms. It's that simple. They need to prove who they are for their LEGAL rights, not their NATURAL rights.

reply to post by Victoria 1

You are hypocritcal...why shoud all these people that came to America ILLEGALLY not have to abide by our rules? If they want to live here, then they should have to follow the LAW.. it is plain and simple.

Quote me on where I said that illegals do not need to follow the law.

And while you fail to do so because I never did, I'll once again correct someone that you're thinking of their legal rights, which they do not have in America because they are illegal. But regardless of legality in this country, they have natural rights, rights plenty of people want to strip from them.

How can you focus so much on what being American is like?
I bet that if I told you that America is every inch of landscape from alaska all the way down to Patagonia you would call me a moron and say that you know that because YOU know YOU ARE AMERICAN. As if being "American" gave you credit or status to know more than other people. You seem to hate immigrants, but do you know their story? Do you know anything about them except that they are ILLEGAL ALIENS? Immigrants do have to follow the U.S laws, if they don't, there will be consequences. This is basic.
Now I understand your point. I know you feel like your country is being infested by a lot of people from all over the globe, but it has been like this for quite a while now....it's been decades like this.
I just think you shouldn't let your "AMERICAN PRIDE" blind you eyes. We are all human beings, we are all part of the same creation, therefore we should be entitled to the same obligations and rights when living in the same country. We should abide by the rules of the country we reside in. So I think you know a lot of ethics, but when it comes to geography, you could learn a little bit more. Because I was born in Brazil, yet I'm American. Now prove me otherwise.

reply to post by Roger Dat


You are Brazilian , The United States of America is the only country with America in its name hence we are called Americans. Yes you were Born on the Continent of South America hence you are South American and a Brazilian. North and South America are 2 seperate continents not one.

While it may be a fun exercise to play the name game on the internet I fairly assured when travelling to other parts of the world one does not claim to be American.

Back on track folks.

Natural Law defined by anyone is just a theory being postulated. Nothing more. As Newton postulated his theory on gravity, does NOT make his THEORY=GRAVITY so too the definition of said Natural Law.

There is one Law.

To do no harm. Period. Once this LAW of man is broken, there are consequences. They could be any consequences.

Just as the theory of gravity does not create or become gravity, so too does the Constitution not become LAW, it is a definition of or theory of LAW.

Yes, Natural Law exists and it predates man.

Cause and effect is an apt explanation.

Harm>Consequence
Cause>Effect

Any questions? Or should I say, case closed. (pun intended)

reply to post by Roger Dat


I understand the confusion. I primarily choose the thread title to get attention as well as give those who always shout anything what you could call "freedom loving" a jab. The thread title doesn't reflect my own sentiments (I find the notion of borders silly but I'm being pragmatic in dealing with it).

Originally posted by endisnighe
Back on track folks.

Natural Law defined by anyone is just a theory being postulated. Nothing more. As Newton postulated his theory on gravity, does NOT make his THEORY=GRAVITY so too the definition of said Natural Law.

You tell people to get back on track when you were never ON track to begin with. This here is an example. You continue to harp about Natural Law not being anything other than a theory when that isn't the point. The point is that the usually divisive founding fathers were rather unanimous in the idea of Natural Law, as is the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and the people who always harp about the founding fathers and these documents demands the stripping of natural rights from an individual are HYPOCRITES.

We're having two completely different arguments here. You're arguing your thing when I'm arguing this and what you're arguing about has nothing to do with it. Nothing. Most of the people in this thread haven't been talking about this which is shocking to me to be quite honest. It went in a completely different tangent.

I am accusing people of being hypocrites who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. And they become hypocrites because they only harp about their love of freedom when THEIR freedom is being threatened, and yet advocate the disruption of freedom of other individuals. Even if they committed crimes they get to face their time but that doesn't mean we should brutalize them. It doesn't mean we should give them no trial or an unfair trial, or believe they're guilty until proven innocent. It doesn't mean we should torture them, it doesn't mean we should detain them indefinitely. It doesn't mean we should strip someone of their Miranda rights.

Because the people who love to preach about freedom should realize that these natural rights that our most important documents were based in and founding fathers believed in are not just for Americans.


But apparently the entire point of this thread went over your heads.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
reply to post by Roger Dat

 

You are Brazilian , The United States of America is the only country with America in its name hence we are called Americans. Yes you were Born on the Continent of South America hence you are South American and a Brazilian. North and South America are 2 seperate continents not one.

While it may be a fun exercise to play the name game on the internet I fairly assured when travelling to other parts of the world one does not claim to be American.

While I have no problem with citizens of the USA grabbing the name for themselves I would like to say that the whole world teaches that the American Continent stretches from Alaska to Chile, well everyone except those in the US (maybe Canada but I don't know).

[edit on 12-5-2010 by daskakik]