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Unamerican people need to leave America

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posted on May, 5 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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I see this has somehow turned into an illegal immigration thread. Deny ignorance. I'm out, S&F to the OP.




posted on May, 5 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by mryanbrown
 


Your avoidance is duly noted.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by mryanbrown
 


Your clear and undeniable efforts to confront the evils of tyranny are duly noted. Your efforts to offer reasoned debate, and to show clear civility to those who refuse to do the same is duly noted. Your temperance, and honest appeals are duly noted. Your studied, and considered thoughts are duly noted. Your unwillingness to engage in petty distractions are duly noted.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 




If you've something to say to me, then say it. This isn't kindergarten, no need to play games.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 12:49 AM
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My thoughts. My opinion:

There had to be a way to express the concerns of those who sat down and painstakingly scribed what we call the "Constitution". It was written by men whose belief's and faith were in a supreme God, not God's (plural). The "All men are created equal" was a foundational principle to at least begin and establish a government unknown in the civilized world at that time. It was a way of saying to the world: "This country will be a country based on law and those laws are written to protect the freedoms of anyone who so chooses to come and be "AN AMERICAN" citizen. However, though we are all Human and as such, we have the right to self-preservation, this doesn't necessarily mean that 'where' we live will guarantee under the law that we would experience such freedoms unless those freedoms are protected. In response to the many comments made previously, my opinion on what constitutes "AN AMERICAN" is someone who understands that as long as the person who is making that statement believes and maintains an allegiance to our principles, regards another human being who breaths the same air we all do, accepts those principles and doesn't try to 'bend', 'change', 'alter' those principles to fit a previously held conviction (belief's held previously to coming to this country), then that to me is the 'true' American spirit and that no man, no government has the right to bind another human being from being just that, a human being. Rather, and my case-in-point being the current administration in Washington, they are a group of individuals attempting to do what I just said was un-American: Bend, Alter, Change our constitution to fit every lifestyle. This just isn't so. Whether you agree or not or accept what I have written as true, nonetheless, it is undeniable, unequivocal and irrevocable that this nation was founded on Godly principles by men who sought and prayed for wisdom on how this country would hold its allegiance to a higher authority, namely God. But what has happened over time is the erosion of those Godly principles and a turning away from Godly principles to "HUMAN" principles. If this be the case, and America has turned its back on a living God, then there are and will be consequences because 'man' generic cannot nor has it ever shown that it was capable of living together without rules, without a structure. To me, it is everything to do with denying the sanctity of God (Not Gods) and believing that humans ARE gods and the evidence is all around us. The longer our government has turned away from Godly principles the more deprived as a nation we have become. "Be not deceived; for God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap". We are reaping what has been sown whether it was by your hand or another's but a country that purports to have its faith in "GOD" and then lives and conducts itself as though there were no God, is a nation that is in the current state of "mocking' the very God that has blessed us. Blessed us because we first honored Him and now have brought dishonor. We are ALL hypocrites if we call ourselves "Americans" but deny the power of God. If you don't want to believe in God, there are many other places on this earth to live and do your own thing. Live in sin like there was no tomorrow "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die" mentality. Live whatever life you so choose, but don't bring your sin to my country that was founded on Godly principles. America is NOT a nation of "God's", but God. Even the bible has stated: "And you shall have no other God's before me". Plural. Again, before you respond hastily, please consider what I've written. I am only after all, stating the facts on how this country was founded, and why. God bless.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by joeaveragecitizen
 


First, welcome to ATS!

On to your post, there are only two points I would disagree with you on. When the Constitution and Declaration of Independence were written, women (both black and white) and black men were not considered equal with white men. Neither had the right to vote and only obtained it through later amendments. So it wasn't all human beings who were believed to be created equal, it was all white men. Were it all human beings it wouldn't have taken two amendments for the rest of us to have the right to vote.

The second point I would disagree with is the definition of an American. American citizens are only called such because of our laws. Were I to agree with and live by the laws of China, I still wouldn't be a citizen of China without moving there and going through their citizenship process. The reverse is also true. Someone in Taiwan who agrees with and lives by our laws is not a citizen of America unless they were born here or go through our citizenship process. Someone from another country could embody the spirit of Americanism, but "American citizen" is a legal term only applicable to those born here and those who go through our citizenship process.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 03:43 AM
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I have a sister-in-law who is born in america but opposes the arizona law, and hates me because i want it to be enforced.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by hiwhatsup
I have a sister-in-law who is born in america but opposes the arizona law, and hates me because i want it to be enforced.


Guess that means one of you is being unamerican and has to leave. Question is who?



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 08:44 AM
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Just pack up your personals, return to your border, learn to write and speak english, take the test for citizenship and then and only then you will be welcome in our country.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 09:26 AM
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very interesting thread,the debate of language vs language is at the core of this,i think



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by joeaveragecitizen
 


First, welcome to ATS!

On to your post, there are only two points I would disagree with you on. When the Constitution and Declaration of Independence were written, women (both black and white) and black men were not considered equal with white men. Neither had the right to vote and only obtained it through later amendments. So it wasn't all human beings who were believed to be created equal, it was all white men.


Hey Jenna. Rarely agree with you and certainly don't here, but for some reason I always appreciate your posts...I think it is your "tone". Maybe that and for some reason your avatar plays upon deep rooted fond memories of my youth playing D&D.

To your point. You are correct that the laws of the land at the time of the constitution did not consider women and blacks equal to white men.

BUT...the OP speaks of principles and ideals and intent of the founding fathers and in this regard he is 100% correct.

I have read extensively concerning the founding fathers and there was great debate concerning the phrasing of "all men" and the INTENT of those words is not disputed. Jefferson, the author of those words,..despite being a slave owner dependant on slavery for his income...was a strong proponent of equality FOR ALL and would have sacrificed his wealth to free the slaves.

It WAS the intent and spirit of that document to proclaim equal rights for all. The delay of implementing those ideals was due to congress and politics....not the founding fathers.



After voting in favor of the resolution of independence, Congress turned its attention to the committee's draft of the declaration. Over several days of debate, Congress made a few changes in wording and deleted nearly a fourth of the text, most notably a passage critical of the slave trade, changes that Jefferson resented. On July 4, 1776, the wording of the Declaration of Independence was approved and sent to the printer for publication.

en.wikipedia.org...



Jefferson tried unsuccessfully to include in the Declaration of Independence a condemnation of British support of the slave trade.

www.loc.gov...

If we wish to interpret the intent of our founding fathers with regards to that famous phrase "all men are created equal and endowed by thier creator with certain unalienable rights...."

We need not look further than the the author of that phrase.

"I congratulate you, fellow citizens, on the approach of the period at which you may interpose your authority constitutionally, to withdraw the citizens of the United States from all further participation in those violations of human rights which have been so long continued on the unoffending inhabitants of Africa, and which the morality, the reputation, and the best interests of our country, have long been eager to proscribe." --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Annual Message, 1806. ME 3:421

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever: that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation, is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVIII, 1782. ME 2:227

"The rights of human nature [are] deeply wounded by this infamous practice [of slavery]." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774. ME 1:201, Papers 1:130

etext.virginia.edu...





[edit on 6-5-2010 by maybereal11]



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 10:41 AM
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Both Spanish and English languages came from Europe.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by mryanbrown
 


Your avoidance is duly noted.


Your ability to understand the purpose of a thread, even with full and clear explanation, of which has nothing to do with a majority of what you harped on since I made this thread, has been duly noted as well.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 


Thank you my friend. Exactly. The mentality was that all men are free before God. Sadly not EVERYONE wanted to equally recognize that. So it was left as a vague reference for future generations.

Sadly blacks never fought to have themselves recognized as equal men under the Constitution. They fought for civil rights, instead of unalienable god given rights.

The same goes for women.

Our founders gave us the ability to reference the statement at a time when we were ready and stand up and say.

"All men" includes all Black MEN, and all woMEN.

(Starred for making sense)



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
....................
It would be nice if there was more attention paid to the Constitution and what it means, in public school, though.


Oh yeah...but do you even know what the Constitution says and means?...

Article 4 Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution clearly states....


Article 4 - The States
Section 4 - Republican Government

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,....

www.usconstitution.net...

Hummm...does it say anything about "Liberal", or "Progressive" or even "Democrat" form of government?.... NOPE.... It CLEARLY says that the U.S. shall guarantee to EVERY STATE a REPUBLICAN form of government....

Phew you certainly haven't read the Constitution, and you just dug yourself a nice little hole with that statement you made...


Were you saying something about ignorant Americans?....


[edit on 5-5-2010 by ElectricUniverse]


....You're aware "Republican form of government" means a Republic, right? It has nothing to do with political parties.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by SpectreDC
....You're aware "Republican form of government" means a Republic, right? It has nothing to do with political parties.


Aint no government like a Republican form of government cause a Republican form of government says no to Democracy.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by mryanbrown

Originally posted by SpectreDC
....You're aware "Republican form of government" means a Republic, right? It has nothing to do with political parties.


Aint no government like a Republican form of government cause a Republican form of government says no to Democracy.


Huh....really?


A republic government is a type of government where the citizens choose the leaders of their country [1] and the people (or at least a part of its people)[2] have an impact on its government.[3][4] The word "republic" is derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as "a public affair".



Democracy is a political government carried out either directly by the people (direct democracy) or by means of elected representatives of the people (representative democracy).


You were saying?



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by SpectreDC
 


Just to add to this, I really #ing hate people who go "noooo America is a democracy" "oh no it isn't it's a constitutional republic!"

Democracy is not a form of government, it's an idea about how government exists. Thus America is a democracy, in the form of a constitutional republic.



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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"Open up a window, let some light into this room."
Well written post/ Dial down the righteous indignation and I'd read your book (if you write one).



posted on May, 6 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by ponyboyats
 

Brainwashed guy says what?
Ponyboy you've been watching too much Glenn Beck. This is one of the first times I've seen the concept of Natural Law explained quite as succinctly.



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