Let the GOVT IS TRYING TO MURDER US ALL conspiracies begin

As I'm sure everyone is aware, there was a failed plot to set off a car bomb in Times Square in NYC, and the police traced the vehicle to a Pakistani named Faisal Shahzad, who was nabbed while trying to skip the country to Dubai. Of course, to me, this only confirms that the Muslim world is breeding a generation of outer space fanatic zealots who genuinely think committing acts of terrorism will force the rest of us to bend to Islamic will. Muslim fanatics attacked us on 9/11 and Muslim fanatics rioted when Danish newspapers ran cartoons of Mohammed. Heck, people in Indonesia are being killed simply becuase Christians are using the word, "Allah" to refer to god, so it's blatantly obvious that they've become so zealous in their beliefs that life has become cheap for these people. 21st century western ideas are beginning to seep into medieval Islamic values (including such horrible sins against god as -gasp- women being treated like human beings) and they don't like it.

Of course, I have no doubt the equally outer space, fanatic 9/11 conspiracy theorists inventing every absurd paranoid claim from "controlled demolitions in an occupied skyscraper" to "laser beams from outer space" will see this attempted terrorist attack in instinctive paranoia reflex as yet another false flag operation for some Rube Goldberg-esque plot to take over the world. Never mind that this guy was a blithering idiot who built such a poor quality of bomb that it didn't explode. Never mind that he left so many clues behind (he bought the vehicle rigged as a car bomb with his real name) that he practically made a road map leading authorities back to him. If conspiracy people are so hard core in love with their conspiracy stories that they'll even invent stories of the planes hitting the towers being all holograms, their abject paranoia will instinctively make them interpret this as being yet another conspiracy to take over the world too. I couldn't tell you how this could possibly serve anyone trying to take over the world, but then, such accusations have nothing to do with the serious review of the facts. It's entirely due to deliberately trying to get people all paranoid over shadows.

The reality is that yes, there IS a threat growing from this religious intolerance. Pinch yourself, it's true- there really are people out there in the world with completely separate and distinct agendas from what the US is trying to do. How long will it be before the conspiracy people wake up from their daydream world and see that not everythign bad going on in the world is the result of some secret gov't plot to murder us all?

[edit on 4-5-2010 by GoodOlDave]

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

How long will it be before the conspiracy people wake up from their daydream world and see that not everythign bad going on in the world is the result of some secret gov't plot to murder us all?

Never.

They're so scared of the reality you outlined that it is more psychologically comfortable to them to invent an organization of their own making.

That way, they can pick and choose their own solutions to life's everyday issue.

Like why didn't I get that job?

Cuz Jews run the world and I don't like Jews. Or cuz I'm not part of the Illuminati. Or cuz I post on an internet site about how 9/11 was an inside job. And of course they are all powerful and know this about me.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
How long will it be before the conspiracy people wake up from their daydream world and see that not everythign bad going on in the world is the result of some secret gov't plot to murder us all?

I'll say never also. Sadly, the TS bomber's stunning incompetency will only reinforce their 911 inside job beliefs.

Improper identification of the true enemy is foolish. Trying to convince others that their improper identification is "911 truth" is egregious and insidious. I can only hope that such people wander out of their haze before they or someone they know becomes victims of the actions of radical muslims.

The thing or condition I'm hoping to see really change is,
the addition or contribution of real solutions rather than the perpetual finger pointing and redundant negative comments that attach themselves to whatever the topic of the day is.
The sooner that mindset is abandoned and contribution actually weighs more than consumption, will be a good day.
Although not all problems are conspiratory in their nature, to deny that all are free of influence and design is equally as foolish.

LOL

That's all I can say. Why? because ONCE AGAIN you are trying to put all of the people that believe in conspiracies in one simple small confined box as those who 'believe the government is trying to murder us all'.

Dave my friend, not all of us who believe that the government is capable of conspiring against its own people (shown by the MANY MANY MANY conspiracies that have been uncovered and that have been documented by the government itself) is out to murder us all. Far from it.

The TS bomber is going to be an interesting thing to watch. Most of us do realize that there are fanatics out there that hate what we, as Americans, have. There are tens of millions of Americans that hate the Middle East simply because of the misinformation being spewed out by our representatives. It goes both ways.

Where most of us have a problem is when our leaders send us into wars that cost us trillions of dollars and are based on assumptions and no facts.

So, me, as a believer in conspiracies (since I have seen many that have been admitted to BY THE GOVERNMENT), I do NOT think that they are trying to murder us all.

Nice try but you once again miss the boat on this one.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I can only hope that such people wander out of their haze before they or someone they know becomes victims of the actions of radical muslims.

Right there is the big problem with your statement. Already you are blaming the muslims (well, radical ones). Has he been tried? Convicted? Is he truly a muslim? Has all of this information been released already? I understand that assumptions because we are trained to think that way now. That the only evil on this planet are the nazi's, commi's, soci's and now the evil radical muslims.

Originally posted by dariousg
I understand that assumptions because we are trained to think that way now.

Golly, that is hilarious coming from conspiracy theorist who requires dead hijackers to be tried and convicted - oh, and confirmed to be "truly" muslim - before we can identify radical islam as a major component in the 911 attacks. How many more excuses do you allow for the wiggle room to make your conspiracy work? Please explain this fantastic new way of thinking so that I may break this "training" you've referred to.

Originally posted by dariousg
LOL

That's all I can say. Why? because ONCE AGAIN you are trying to put all of the people that believe in conspiracies in one simple small confined box as those who 'believe the government is trying to murder us all'.

You are making the claim that the 9/11 attack was some sort of staged false flag operation to instigate all these world wide wars, are you not?

The 9/11 attack killed some 3,000 American citizens directly, and the world wide wars instigated by the attack directly and indirectly killed off a couple thousand more US and allied soldiers and civilians, plus an unknown number of citizens of those countries, all to advance some shadowy global agenda of the conspirators. This doesn't include the hordes of supposed insiders and witnesses (I.E. Barry Jennings) who you people say were suspiciously bumped off to keep them quiet.

The conspirators are (according to you people) creating all these meatgrinders to kill off people solely for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you don't realize that you really ARE claiming the gov't is instigating a never ending chain of conspiracies to kill us all then I daresay you're so in love with your conspiracy stories that you've never truly paid attention to what you're actually saying.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


before 9/11 most Americans never heard of Al-Qaida ... but Bush was ready to attack them before the WTC attacks. coincidence?

www.msnbc.msn.com...

How about the Project for a New American Century that called for a new pearl harbor? Its so widely known its even on wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org...

I would also suggest you read the UN Agenda for the 21st Century, if you want to find out what the real depopulation agenda is all about.
www.un.org...

and if you ever get the chance, check out the Club of Romes book "The First Global Revolution" it pretty much sums everything up.

[edit on 4-5-2010 by BlesUTP]

Originally posted by dariousg

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I can only hope that such people wander out of their haze before they or someone they know becomes victims of the actions of radical muslims.

Right there is the big problem with your statement. Already you are blaming the muslims (well, radical ones). Has he been tried? Convicted? Is he truly a muslim? Has all of this information been released already? I understand that assumptions because we are trained to think that way now. That the only evil on this planet are the nazi's, commi's, soci's and now the evil radical muslims.

Here are some convictions for you :-

news.bbc.co.uk...

If their plot had come to fruition thousands may have died.

Originally posted by BlesUTP
before 9/11 most Americans never heard of Al-Qaida ... but Bush was ready to attack them before the WTC attacks. coincidence?

No, more like innuendo. Al Qaida was involved in all sorts of mischief since their fatwah in 1996, like the war against peacekeepers in Somalia, the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, the bombing of the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, as well as the FIRST WTC bombing in 1993. That doesn't include the mischief they were involved in against other nations, like the attempted assassination of the Egyptian president and the overthrow of the Saudi royal family. You're simply developing selective amnesia here and pretending that Al Qaida only came out of the woodwork on 9/11.

In case you hadn't noticed...and it's clear that you hadn't...your post only AGREES with me that you conspiracy people have such an intense love for these conspiracy stories that you'll instinctively interpret everything from the 9/11 attack to your stubbing your toe on a rock in your back yard as being hidden signs of some sinister secret gov't plot bent on taking over the world. I'm sorry, but this rampant abject paranoia is starting to get old.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


ok man, to each their own, but if you are so comfortable touting the establishment line, why are you on conspiracy boards? oh, and i said that MOST AMERICANS had NEVER HEARD OF al qaida, not that they didnt exist. big difference bud.

im just not comfortable with being spoon fed information from the government/media and repeating it as fact. governments never act with the best interest of the people in mind.

but just remember, the US is responsible for arming and training the Mujahadeen to fight against the Russians. radical muslims are only friends to america when they help keep our tin pot dictators in power (Reza Pahlavi), or are willing to be fresh bodies on the front lines.

peace





[edit on 4-5-2010 by BlesUTP]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by dariousg
I understand that assumptions because we are trained to think that way now.

Golly, that is hilarious coming from conspiracy theorist who requires dead hijackers to be tried and convicted - oh, and confirmed to be "truly" muslim - before we can identify radical islam as a major component in the 911 attacks. How many more excuses do you allow for the wiggle room to make your conspiracy work? Please explain this fantastic new way of thinking so that I may break this "training" you've referred to.

Okay, first, though I have read many of the threads where people have claimed that the hijackers still live or were not muslims, etc., where in any of my personal posts have "I" stated that the dead need to be tried and convicted before they can be labeled terrorists?

Dude, your problem is that you are looking at conspircay theorists with such a narrow view that you are virtually blind.

My thoughts on 911 (which this thread truly doesn't have much to do with) have evolved over the past 9 years. I will look at all evidence and theories brought forth and I will evaluate which ones seem to make sense. I store away the things that don't make sense and I discount those that are completely false. I fear that with the history of all governments and their activities (and the fact that they have had to come forward with documents proving that they were indeed involved in what used to be conspiracy 'theories') that we MUST always question the stories they tell us now. To blindly swallow what your 'leaders' tell you is to set yourself up for brainwashing.

So, in the past certain people within our own (the U.S.) government have done some pretty nasty things (including murder) to its own people. They have used false flag operations to incite the fervor of the people into following them into wars (actually, leading them since our leaders never actually lead us into war. They wouldn't dare put themselves in harms way). This is fact.

I am simply saying that until we get the full story on this guy (who is alive and CAN be tried which is a HUGE difference versus your pathetic argument) that we take our time before giving judgement on a massive group of people. The muslims are a generally peaceful people as a whole. It's the idiots on the fringes (kind of like what we have here with Christianity and even politics) that are the ones that do this crap.

As for the 'new way of thinking' and 'training'? Well, you are a classic example of this training. And it's far from new. It's been accomplished over time. It's firmly embedded in our education system where our kids are trained to simply believe what your leaders tell you. They are taught history from those same leaders points of view. Virtually every text book out there can be torn apart with factual data that contradicts what our kids are being taught now.

So with this training comes people who, when they see it on TV being stated plainly by our leadership, begin to believe everything they hear instead of thinking for themselves.

I could go on and on and on. But Golly, I just don't think you are getting it.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by dariousg

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I can only hope that such people wander out of their haze before they or someone they know becomes victims of the actions of radical muslims.

Right there is the big problem with your statement. Already you are blaming the muslims (well, radical ones). Has he been tried? Convicted? Is he truly a muslim? Has all of this information been released already? I understand that assumptions because we are trained to think that way now. That the only evil on this planet are the nazi's, commi's, soci's and now the evil radical muslims.

Here are some convictions for you :-

news.bbc.co.uk...

If their plot had come to fruition thousands may have died.

I am very familiar with that story. Where have I stated that this guy is innocent and that it wasn't an act of terrorism? Can you please point it out? Just because I try to bring some sense of logical thought to this discussion you automatically (like a few others) put on the defensiveness and begin to attack us people who like to take the time to question what we are told.

I thought I lived in a country where we are presumed INNOCENT until guilty. Have we gone past that point now? Just because he is of Middle Eastern decent he is automatically guilty? Just because he is a muslim he is automatically guilty? Are we really at that point?

You just don't get what I am saying. It's obvious. Do I question the events of 911? Yes. Do I question the reasons for the wars we were thrust into? Yes. Have we received reliable facts supporting the reasons? NO. That is why I question.

So until this guy has his day in court I feel we need to take what we are told with a grain of salt.

Because I am finding that it is just quite amazing how a system that has so many holes in it will have prevented so many attacks in the past 9 years. That the ones that have been attempted have failed miserably. I just find it kind of funny how car bombs go off all of the time in other countries and yet when it comes to the attempts here there seems to be a magical force that prevents it.

Am I saying that terrorism doesn't exist? Nope. I know it does. Are there people around the world that hate our country and want to harm it? Of course there are. And unfortunately our leadership hasn't done much over the past couple decades to change that hatred. Actually, they have done quite a bit to enhance it.

If this guy is guilty then I hope that he is tried and held accountable to the full extent of the LAW. Our law since it happened here. Not the McCain law where he doesn't get his rights. Not that one. Because that one will have him in a dark cell without representation for who knows how long. And we will never get anything showing his guilt other than what we are TOLD that our leadership has found.

But alas, I am thinking too critically again. I guess I should just go back to buying everything that we are told by the MSM and our leaders.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Again Dave, you keep lumping 'us guys' into a very narrow view of the 911 conspiracy. Sorry, but you missed again because you keep trying to fit me into the very small mold of the poor 911 CTer you are presenting.

What you, and many other self proclaimed debunkers keep neglecting is the simple fact that people in government and other powerful positions have indeed started wars in the past for monetary and resources gains. Many times in fact.

But alas, they have stopped doing that because they say they have, right? :bnghd:

Originally posted by dariousg
I could go on and on and on. But Golly, I just don't think you are getting it.

That's because you're a nincompoop who sees fit to project his own problems onto others such as myself. You've simply been brainwashed into believing in your conspiracies which you pick and choose like a buffet, same as the others. And you polarize everyone who doesn't fit into your camp as people "trained" to think certain ways, same as the others. It's as if there's a factory chopping you guys out with a cookie cutter. You're all just as boring as each other.

In the hope that I can dispel the projections of your inadequacies on to me I'll let you know some things about myself. I have investigated each and every one of the 911 conspiracy theories. Unlike you and the myriad of other conspiracy drones, I had the good sense and critical thinking skills to realize that none of the theories - and I mean none - have any tangible evidence to back them. Unlike you and the myriad of other conspiracy drones, I don't assemble disparate facts and use the handful of outliers and anomalies to rewrite the history of 911 in favor of anti-establishment views, no matter how badly I despise Bush or the government in general. Probably much to your surprise, I can think for myself and don't, in fact, "think what my leaders tell me to".

In the end I feel sorry for the lot of you. It's not that you're unintelligent, it's that your thinking went way wrong somewhere along the line. And sadly you've taken your eye off the ball and cannot recognize the proper enemy despite how many times they keep coming back. You probably never will. Even worse, a primary goal for the conspiracists is to spread this ignorance around until it seeps into the national conscience. How reprehensible. I only hope you'll all be able to recognize radical islamic extremism the next time it strikes.