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Huge National Debts Could Push Euro Zone into Bankruptcy

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posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:08 PM
ahh the sheeple have spoken. What about US debt. It's the highest of any country. Oh wait, you can just print money, and the China bails you out, so they can keep selling you crap.

Besides countries don't really exist like they used too, its Multinationals pulling the strings. Private citizens of the world whom have build their empires (Rothchild's etc,).

Down with the corptocracy system.

Capitalism is the enemy, the market is fiction, the new feudalism is here.

I don't have a simple answer, as there is not one. Just an opinion, not an argument.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:32 PM
One of big problems in Europe is the housing market, it has been a popular trend to obtain a second mortgage, using the value of the property as security. But the housing market value has declined over the past few years, combining this with rising unemployment and a with home owners in the UK owing TRILLIONS of pounds to the banks, the ecconomy of Britain in particular, is in a very dodgy position.
That's one reason I left Europe!!

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:42 PM
sounds fun.

guess we have to see how things play out. i mean; either we're heading for danger, or out of the blue things are going to seem like nothing ever happened, stagnation and then the people forget.

so either it explodes all at once, or it goes to a new normal where everyone just shrugs their shoulders.

the u.s. will have their grimy palms in everything as usual. just wonder what "we'll" do.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:07 PM
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Please keep the partisan politics out of this.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:24 PM
reply to post by silent thunder

your comment

"On one level people realize full well what is going on, or at the very least know things don't add up. But they deceive themselves because in many situations self-deception actually serves quite well in the struggle for self-preservation. It's been shown that you can convince others more of anything if you truly believe it yourself. And while rationally this would suggest that the healthy way to live is to thus only tell the truth, in fact it splits the brain such that the outermost ego-shell remains in a kind of semi-trance where their understanding is purposefully surpressed. Meanwhile, the the uglier task of actually being aware of what is going on is delegated to a semi-subconscious level.

Let's look at your example of media "experts," pundits, and their ilk. Because of media consolidation, their ultimate employers/gravy train are people with vested interest. For example, a big media conglomerate wants its shares to stay high, so it always talks up the broader market in general no matter what. It wants to keep hope in its audience, keep them feeling good, keep them pumping their savings into the market. So its all rah-rah. If you can't do it convincingly you simply are passed over in that world.

Smart people who can leap nimbly from one conceptual system to another are needed to always put the right spin on a rapidly changing world. On one level they have a good grasp of reality. But what comes out of their mouth is not based on a quest for truth but a need to push an agenda, an entire worldview. To keep the the two parts of their brain performing these two difficult and contradictory tasks, they need to cultivate a kind of inner orwellian "protective stupidity," among other little sick mental tricks.

Some of the more sour and cynical among them retain an nearly-conscious awareness of the entire process, and this often manifests in dark humor, for example. The more mediocre majority simply turn on the mental laughing-gass and fool their outer selves far beyond the point of necessity to become babbling nimrods."

definetly struck a chord with me, I work for a large university, where one would assume that truth would be what is generally sought, not so. At the onset of the economy failure, we were more or less given a memo saying follow along, repeat what we say to everyone you know so that people will think everythings ok. It makes me physically sick to think a place of higher learning I had such high regard for, has sunken itself to the depths of depravity, and is following along as if drugged into a mind numbing stupor. The only light at the end of the tunnel, is that Im finding out quite quickly that there are others out there who arent willing to lie, and who can see whats really going on. I always wondered if a Group of people could be in that semi-trance state you mentioned-now I know for sure.

What I wonder is just how far they would go, would they kill to remain in that unenlightened state?

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:27 PM
I don´t understand why stats have to pay their debts to banks. they are just giving profit to someone if not the bank owners, the stock holders, why would states be kept on the leash by profiteers?

specially when we think about states like the us or europe, if the chinese hold a large share of the us debt they can just make a deal between them... change goods or something...

maybe this is just my simple mind but there should be some truth in this.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:49 PM

Originally posted by TheBandit795
reply to post by S.R.I.A.

That's a good question. I'm curious to know as well..

But it might bring some drawbacks with it. Especially with the holders of the debt.

if its only the top 1% who hold all the wealth
then repudeating debt only effects the people who arnt effected by the down turn in thde economies


posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:59 PM

Originally posted by derfred33
I don´t understand why stats have to pay their debts to banks. they are just giving profit to someone if not the bank owners, the stock holders, why would states be kept on the leash by profiteers?

specially when we think about states like the us or europe, if the chinese hold a large share of the us debt they can just make a deal between them... change goods or something...

maybe this is just my simple mind but there should be some truth in this.

as system where banks make money out of thin air to loan you at interest is the problem

set up a peoples bank where all the money is created for the public good not the bank

imagine $50.00 in the bank (the banks benifit)
imagine this senario
$50.00 is payed to a hotel for a room for the night
$50.00 is then spent by the hotel on food at the store
$50.00 is payed to a staff member who then spends it at the hotel
the original person cancells his room and receives $50.00

all the people in this example benifit because the money is in circulation


posted on May, 4 2010 @ 05:39 PM

The debt increases every year and with that the interest you have to pay rises which in turn reduces the amount of money you can actually use for education, health or whatever. Every year it gets a little worse. Every year politicians tell us "Well, we will reduce new debt to absolute zero until *insert date 5 to 10 years from now*"

Every year we are getting closer to the point where you simply cannot pay for the basics because the interest you have to pay is simply too much.

Are the all blind? What do they think will happen 10 years from now? The debt magically dissappears? What on earth are they thinking?

I don´t get it.

You should not look at the absolute debt, but at debt in relation to GDP. Debt can increase because of both inflation and economic growth. Even though interest in term of amount of money may increase, the charge remains about the same.

The idea is that in times of crisis debt increases and in good periods it decreases. You can see it as a buffer that levels out extreme fluctuations in the economy. Of course this is under the assumption it will go better in the future.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 05:44 PM
reply to post by Mdv2

You know what's good about being a good architect? When this sh*t storm is over and all the world's a mess, someone will want to build something, and whoever that is, I will be there. Don't worry folks, when I have a business, I'll give you all jobs in Whatnotastan.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 05:58 PM
If we do have a global meltdown, the easiest way to fix it would be to grant a global loan forgiveness program and hit the reset button. Everyone start maxing out your credit cards!!!
What will be, will be.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 06:03 PM
reply to post by WeRpeons

Actually, yea. Pretty much that would be it. I'm currently writing something like that into a story line for some video game mod. basically a world union forms out of the ashes of WW3 and basically says "F*ck the debt". Te support from the people allows them to essentially do it without resistance.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 06:51 PM
Ah, Americas, like a phoenix

rising out of the smoldering ashes of Europa

I am shocked

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 06:56 PM
Debt is normally classified as bad - with good reasoning too.

But on such a global scale, it can be good.

Debt keeps people producing goods to pay of their debt.

If I owe someone a dollar in a day, and the penalty is some bruising up, I will make sure I make that dollar and pay you back.

Seeing as much of the middle class/lower class world live off debt, and such a class is a large part of the population, the debt machine keeps people producing goods.

Even though we may have our billionaires, they are not demanding millions of Chesseburgers. Or millions of gallons of milk. In fact, the rich/elite have such a bare effect on the total demand of such goods. Now, if they were to buy it for their entire city, or start a business that hurts such an industry, things may change. But having millions of dollars stored up essentially decreases the demand for many goods except the exotics (high class food, sports cars, etc.)

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 07:53 PM
I've been seeing a lot about the colapse of the Euro from different sources. There has been talk of North America converting to the Amero that I didn't think too much about until yesterday. A friend of mine told me about a trip to his local ATM where he received $100 in crisp new bills. But, when he checked them, they were all crisp and new looking, but not one was printed after 2006. I checked all my paper money and checked with several other friends. I even went to the bank and had one of the tellers check some in her drawer. Nothing later than 2006.
Hasn't anyone noticed before that there is no paper money in circulation that was printed after 2006, or is this just a coincidence for everyone I have had check?

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 08:12 PM
Greece is not the only one having problems:

"ALBANY — Gov. David A. Paterson escalated his battle with the Legislature over the state’s financial crisis on Tuesday, saying that lawmakers could give him the authority to furlough more than 100,000 state employees or face the prospect of shutting down New York’s government."

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 08:32 PM
The financial terrorist hedge fund hyenas are imploding Greece's banks and economy with derivative bets and insider trading so they can force bailouts (bank robbery) and then use the fiat money (worthless paper they print out of thin air) to buy up real assets and anything of real value and make the people into serfs.They have done this all over the world and they are doing it here. Then they use the police and the military to mop up any opposition. Then they blame John Q. Citizen by saying they live beyond their means and will have to suck it up and pay more taxes thereby giving all they have left to the bankers. Sweet huh?

[edit on 4-5-2010 by EndtheFed]

[edit on 4-5-2010 by EndtheFed]

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 08:34 PM
So, noone has read the Johnathan Mays testimony? It was in the 80's but details todays problems.

Jonathan May formerly worked for the International Monetary Fund in
England. In the early 1980s he came to America with a plan to release
Americans from debt to the banking system by employing the same
"credit creating" system used by international banking. The law
governing this system is the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). May was
initially successful. Eventually, however, he was targeted and
imprisoned by the banking system. He is now in a Federal prison in the
midwest. While in prison he was interviewed by Lindsey Williams via
phone. The following is the text of that interview.

"There are thirteen families which effectively control the central
banks of the hard currency countries of the world. The hard currency
countries are those whose currency is not allowed to fluctuate as much
as the other countries' currency fluctuates. These thirteen families
have the control of the policy-making and decision-making of the
central banks of
those countries. They all practice fractional reserve banking.

Fractional reserve banking has allowed the central banks to permit the
prime banks to lend up to twenty-six units of currency for every one
unit of currency they have on deposit. The owners andcontrollers of
the prime banks are the same people who own and control the central
banks.The initial final stage of System 2000 was put into effect in
the mid-seventies. System 2000 is the global creditors unilateral
totalitarian plan for the control of the world.

A Pentagon official and three other U.S. government officials went to
the Prime Minister of Nigeria. They paid him $50,000,000 to more than
double the price of body light crude oil. This is the crude oil of
Nigeria which is some of the most valuable crude oil in the world. At
the same time that the Prime Minister of Nigeria was being persuaded,
other Trilateral Commission members were in the Middle East persuading
the Middle East nations and England to consolidate OPEC. The deal cut
with the Middle East oil producers was that the oil buyers were
to pay significantly higher prices for oil if the Middle East nations
would invest the revenues in the big banks in America.

Sheik Yamani's nephew assured us that Sheik Yamani and other oil
min-isters did not know until late in the seventies or in the eighties
that the controlling interest of the prime banks is held by the same
people who have the controlling interest in the major oil companies.
They control through a joint stock trust which was set up by the
original Rockefellers here in America in 1870. This was three years
before the United States government declared joint stock trusts
illegal in 1873. It is this entity which is the ultimate controlling
factor in America of the prime banks, the Federal Reserve, the major
oil companies, and many other multi-nationals. This trust is in joint
control of the Rockefeller Foundation and their European interest.

The deal cut with the Saudis, the Kuwaitis, and the middle eastern
peoples was that they were to put their money in the prime banks in
America. They did not know that the prime banks were able to lend
twenty to one. All they were to receive was the interest on the money
they deposited for between ten to thirty years. They were to receive
the principal at the end of the term.

Because they had locked-in deposits from the Middle Eastern nations,
the banks were able to make loans to the Third World nations. The
banks relied on the greed of those ministers of those Third World
nations to mis-handle the money. Over the years, that manipulated
greed has caused those countries to be in the bankrupt position they
are in today.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 08:35 PM

In 1981, I found out that the Hunt brothers of Texas and John
Conley,the Governor of Texas, who was also the Under Secretary of the
Treasury, hadsecretly tried to implement a new currency for Texas.
They could legally dothis because Texas is only a part of the United
States by treaty. Thistreaty is automatically renewed every year. It
has become a tradition, obviously, that it is renewed every year
because it is not actually, physically, renewed every year. This made
it possible for Texas to create its own money.

The Hunts were in partnership with the Shah of Iran, a German bank,
and an Austrian bank. The Hunts made one mistake. They were buying and
sell-ing silver irresponsibly. They had one man doing both buying and
selling on the same floors in all the exchanges. Wor got out and the
result was that the German banker was murdered, the Ausrtrian banker
was so badly beaten that he will never get out of a mental
institution, and the Hunts are virtually bank-rupt today. The Hunts
had sixteen billions
in worth at the time. The Shah was perfectly healthy when he left
Iran. He was only declared sick when he arrived in America. He was
held in "protective custody" in military bases where he was treated
and became progressively worse and ultimately was shipped off to die.

In 1983, we became aware of the fact that a group of very, very quiet
bank holding companies were extending credit wherever they felt like
it, under whatever terms they felt like. They are authorized under
Regulation Y, Section 225.4 of the United States Code to extend this
credit. Those companies were receiving loans from the prime banks.
With this money they were buying foreclosed real property and
businesses with bricks and mortar from liquidations, foreclosures and
These were bussinesses which were affected by FDIC and FSLIC
foreclosures. We could not understand this, and between 1983 and 1985
we researched it and still could not understand it.

Then we found the answer in 1985 when we were approached by an
emissary from President Marcos of the Philippines and President
Saharte and others from Indonesia. They had a severe problem. Their
problem was that, having borrowed all the money that they had
borrowed, they now needed more money. The only way that the
International Monetary Fund was prepared to lend them more money was
if they would do three things:

1. Eliminate their own currencies and become Dollar denominated. This
would eliminate cash altogether.

2. If they would go to a unilateral centralized credit card system.
This was to be a part of their Social Security system, part of their
identity system whereby everybody in the country would have a Social
Security number which would be synonymous with a credit card number.
Their Central Bank was to act as the wholesaler for credit which was
extended to it by the new super bank. This was announced by Paul
Volker on the 27th of October, 1985.

3. In order to help the economies of those countries, the
International Monetary Fund was going to nominate external non-
domestic corporations to properly engineer, exploit and excavate the
minerals from those countries in return for PERPETUAL ROYALTIES.

posted on May, 4 2010 @ 08:36 PM

This excavation would bring prosperity to the nation. Marcos was sharp
enough to pick up on the word PERPETUAL, and realized he would be
signing away the sovereignty of his nation. He was not prepared to do
this. Marcos approached us through his emissary, Colonel Christopher
Banis. We were aware of this offer made by
the International Monetary Fund through our connections in London who
are close to Sir Jeffrey Howe. If they agreed to the International
Monetary Fund's terms and conditions, they were to have their existing
debts forgiven, absolutely. New lines of credit were to be extended to
them and the new lines of credit were to be under better terms and

When we heard the term PERPETUAL, and when we heard the words "Totally
forgiven", we immediately began to recognize what was
happening.Another group of holding companies was operating with the
previous group of holding companies. The second group of holding
companies was receiving credit from the first group to purchase assets
and liabilities from the prime banks. The only liabilities they were
purchasing were the liabilities represented by the deposits of the
Arab nations. The only
assets they were buying were the assets represented by the loans made
to some of the debtor nations.

It then became clear, through our own people in the Trilateral
Com-mission, that the forgiveness of the Third World debts would
eliminate the assets which were being purchased by this second group
of holding companies. This left them only with the liabilities that
were owed to the Middle East nations and being serviced by the prime
banks.The Arab nations had no idea that these liabilities were now
owed by the holding companies and that the debtor nations had stopped
paying the prime banks. The prime banks' and holding companies'
arrangements were that the prime banks were to act as servicing agents
for the holding
companies so that the Third World nations would not know that the
holding companies were owed the money.

The effect of the elimination of the assets of the second group of
holding companies is threefold:

1. The holding companies would be insolvent and would legally be able
to declare themselves insolvent.

2. They could legally and legitimately avoid payment to the Middle
Eastern Nations.

3. The Middle Eastern Arab nations will have to liquidate all their
other assets.

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