9/11 Truth, Yay Or Nay For Libertarian National Committee

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Those people have been snookered by unsupported anti-establishment conjecture. Being convinced of conspiracy in the absence of tangible evidence is lunacy.

Does that mean you're a lunatic for believing what you do, without evidence?

I know for a fact I've already asked you to show me all the evidence that has led you to believe what you do, for any important belief about that day that you hold (what caused the towers to fall, for example), and every time you have backed away from my challenge.

Put up or shut up as they say, and every time, you have chosen to shut up. I'm not telling you what happened; I'm telling that you still don't actually know exactly what happened while simultaneously asking you to prove what YOU think happened. You can't make a case to even defend!

It really is lunacy.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Those people have been snookered by unsupported anti-establishment conjecture. Being convinced of conspiracy in the absence of tangible evidence is lunacy.

Does that mean you're a lunatic for believing what you do, without evidence?

I know for a fact I've already asked you to show me all the evidence that has led you to believe what you do, for any important belief about that day that you hold (what caused the towers to fall, for example), and every time you have backed away from my challenge.

Put up or shut up as they say, and every time, you have chosen to shut up. I'm not telling you what happened; I'm telling that you still don't actually know exactly what happened while simultaneously asking you to prove what YOU think happened. You can't make a case to even defend!

It really is lunacy.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by bsbray11]

I don't have an alternate version of history to prove, therefore I'm not going to list each and every line of inquiry which lead to the understanding of the events of 911. Such things are already known. That is not the topic at hand anyway. The topic is about a 911 conspiracy theorist running for president. Let's stick to it.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


You don't have anything to prove to begin with.

You don't have a case. To begin with. At all. Period. It doesn't have anything to do with coming up with an "alternative."

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

You don't have anything to prove to begin with.

That's exactly what I said. Let's get past your uncontrollable desire to debate the 911 conspiracies please.

The fact is that a 911 conspiracy theorist in the role of president would be tragic for the nation and a thorough boondoggle for the Libertarian Party. I'm certain that even the most 911 conspiracy-obsessive can see the inherent problems with such a scenario.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
The fact is that a 911 conspiracy theorist in the role of president would be tragic for the nation and a thorough boondoggle for the Libertarian Party. I'm certain that even the most 911 conspiracy-obsessive can see the inherent problems with such a scenario.

No, I don't.

I already asked you to provide some evidence for the things you believe happened that day, beyond that 4 planes crashed. My whole issue, and I'm sure the issue of most of the rest of the estimated 1/3 of America, is not having real closure on a number of things. When you can't give me evidence to support what you say happened, that's the whole problem, and why someone aware of this SHOULD be in a position where they can do something about it.

Originally posted by bsbray11

It's a political issue until you can prove 1/3 of the American population is "mental." Good luck.

Pretty close to it, actually.

www.nimh.nih.gov...

"An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year"

or

"Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent"

Take your pick.

reply to post by Joey Canoli


Depression is a disorder, so is anxiety, but those don't cause you to spontaneously believe in conspiracy theories. Nice try though Joey. Always takes the big man to say the people he's arguing with on a daily basis all have mental disorders.

Originally posted by bsbray11

I can't wait until the "reinvestigate 9/11" or "9/11 was an inside job" messages start creating dramatic confrontations between the public and politicians, and between opposing politicians. We are already seeing it start to bubble here, and have seen smatterings of it, increasingly, in the past 9 years. ... This isn't an internet game to us like it is to you, but a matter of our entire country falling into tyranny at the hands of fearmongers after generations of our families fought and died for the very freedoms and standards of living we are now losing on an almost daily basis. ...
If you think this movement is going to die out and go away, least of all because of what you high schoolers spend your time doing on forums all day, then you are going to be very, very unpleasantly surprised.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by bsbray11]

This is pure fantasy. Americans may be getting increasingly annoyed at their government, but to place 9/11 at the centre of this is myopic. People are pissed off about tax, health care, government spending, the bailout, wars, the economy. Only a small minority, as evinced by your poll, agree with you about 9/11 or consider it to be a significant issue. And there's no evidence that that number is growing.

There is no confrontation coming, certainly not one predicated on the notion of a 9/11 conspiracy. And I find it ironic that you admonish us for just fiddling about on a forum when you've admitted yourself that this is indeed all you do for your "cause". As I said at the time, if you want a revolution - and if I believed the things you do, I'd sure as hell want one - you're going to have to go out and make it happen. Not wait for others to do it for you, or sit on the internet challenging others to "prove" a version of events that is already accepted by an overwhelming majority.

Originally posted by bsbray11
I already asked you to provide some evidence for the things you believe happened that day, beyond that 4 planes crashed. My whole issue, and I'm sure the issue of most of the rest of the estimated 1/3 of America, is not having real closure on a number of things. When you can't give me evidence to support what you say happened, that's the whole problem, and why someone aware of this SHOULD be in a position where they can do something about it.

Sigh. Once again, I'm not interested in explaining 911 to you, despite your unwavering insistence to talk about 911 conspiracy in neary every thread in which we encounter each other. Conspiracy details have nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

You know darned well how the common knowledge of 911 was arrived at.
It's not my fault that you reject it. It's not my fault you cannot reconcile the anomalies on that day. Such people should not be running countries nor should they be pushed by a otherwise legitimate American political party. It's sad that you remain so obsessed with 911 conspiracy that you're unable to see the inherent problems with said scenarios.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Sigh. Once again, I'm not interested in explaining 911 to you

But you're interested in spending hours of your time on these forums?

Yeah, you come here for all the right reasons don't you?

Originally posted by bsbray11
But you're interested in spending hours of your time on these forums?

Yeah, you come here for all the right reasons don't you?

Believe it or not, I enjoy expressing my opinions on various topics; the reason that forums exist. I'm sorry for you that you seem determined to discuss conspiracy details no matter what the topic of the thread is. Perhaps one day we can discuss such things in an appropriate thread. Until then let's try not to derail.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I'm sorry for you that you seem determined to discuss conspiracy details no matter what the topic of the thread is. Perhaps one day we can discuss such things in an appropriate thread.

It doesn't bother me that you won't show me what evidence you actually base your opinions on, that you just make statements and never back them up. It doesn't bother me because I know you don't have evidence anyway, you're just stalling for time, it's an immature game but it's elementary.


What bothers me is that you probably don't even think about this. You ignore it. Don't think it matters. That's right, you don't think it matters that you can't back up your opinions with evidence. You'll readily criticize someone else for the same thing, but when it comes to you, oh no, you're a special case. Since you happened to be born a genius already, you don't have to really have any reason to have an opinion, other than you feel like it.

I agree in principle with a "Liberty Party", but I fear the Libertarian party is not it. It is a controlled outlet for those of us that think we are liberated from the belief of the left-right paradigm to go and be marginalized.

America is screwed. No liberty leaning "cult of personality" is stepping up (Ron Paul excluded), everyone is ducking and covering and trying to save their own asses.

Tea Party, HAH!!!! That's just a place that's been manufactured for pissed off Republicans, much like the Green party was created for pissed off Democrats.

We're all rats in a maze with no way out, sorry all, I'm pretty pessimistic today.

Originally posted by bsbray11
It doesn't bother me that you won't show me what evidence you actually base your opinions on

It sure seems that way since that's all you ever want to talk about no matter what the topic. Quit trying to derail every thread. Get on topic.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Quit trying to derail every thread. Get on topic.

If I make a thread titled,

"TraditionalDrummer Finally Shows the Facts and Evidence His 9/11 Opinions are Based on"

would you post on it and actually show your evidence?

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Quit trying to derail every thread. Get on topic.

If I make a thread titled,

"TraditionalDrummer Finally Shows the Facts and Evidence His 9/11 Opinions are Based on"

would you post on it and actually show your evidence?

Quit trying to derail every thread.

Get on topic.

I say Yay.
What have you gained replacing liars with liars?
911 TRUTH is all we should ever expect.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Always takes the big man to say the people he's arguing with on a daily basis all have mental disorders.

The truly sad thing is, is that much more accurate polls used to determine if a person is a "truther" or not is closer to 6%, IIRC.

Originally posted by Joey Canoli
The truly sad thing is, is that much more accurate polls used to determine if a person is a "truther" or not is closer to 6%, IIRC.

I'll call your bluff.

Post the polls showing "truthers" (how are you defining that now?) are 6% of the US population. I hope you've also noticed that over the years the numbers have been steadily growing anyway. In 2001 there was virtually no dissent against the government story compared to today.