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Why Stephen Hawking—and everyone else—is wrong about alien threats

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posted on May, 3 2010 @ 01:57 PM
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This article is exactly my point of view about this very important issue.

There is no threat out there. No evil aliens.

If "they" (57 different species Clifford Stone) had been evil, they would have already erased us from this planet.

ieet.org...



Stephen Hawking is arguing that humanity may be putting itself in mortal peril by actively trying to contact aliens (an approach that is referred to as Active SETI). I’ve got five reasons why he is wrong. Hawking has said that, “If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn’t turn out well for the Native Americans.” He’s basically arguing that extraterrestrial intelligences (ETIs), once alerted to our presence, may swoop in and indiscriminately take what they need from us—and possibly destroy us in the process; David Brin paraphrased Hawking’s argument by saying, “All living creatures inherently use resources to the limits of their ability, inventing new aims, desires and ambitions to suit their next level of power. If they wanted to use our solar system, for some super project, our complaints would be like an ant colony protesting the laying of a parking lot.”

It’s best to keep quiet, goes the thinking, lest we attract any undesirable alien elements.

A number of others have since chimed in and offered their two cents, writers like Robin Hanson, Julian Savulescu, and Paul Davies, along with Brin and many more. But what amazes me is that everyone is getting it wrong.



Your opinions




posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Antor
 


I must agree with the notion that aliens would likely not come in peace. If they had peaceful intentions it would not make sense for them to come here. For if advanced enough to travel here they would be advanced enough to see our wars and iniquity. So they would avoid us. If they were to come it would be under a war flag as possibly a refueling depot, with resources, sport and food all for the taking.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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www.projectrho.com...

Thats his argument, and it's rather convincing (He wasn't the first to make it though)



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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Hello,
Greast observation, OP! I do have a few things to say about your observation. First of all, I tend to agree with you and with Hawking. Allow me to explain- I think that many of these "57" species would be here on Earth for a variety of reasons, namely for resources, colonization, or maybe just science. If they are here for resources (which I am sure some are), thats might not a good thing, depending on what they are after. In fact, what I took from Hawking's comment is that if an alien makes contact with us, it would most likely want something from us. Chances are it could be something we need too. His comparison to the Spanish and Native American exchange is a good one. They might want resources, and if they cannot get them easily, might strongarm them from us. Or maybe they have diseases that could mess us up. And for all we know, any one of those 57 species might have already caused human civilization some trouble. Maybe some human diseases originate from aliens, I do not know. Some of these 57 species might be exploiting us from behind the scenes.
I think that what you and Hawking both should consider is that generalizing could be bad. If there 57 alien species on earth, I guarantee you that there is at least one species that wouldnt mind seeing us eradicated. Problem with that is I guarantee you that there is another that wants us alive for some reason. So the reason we are not all dead yet is because either there are no aliens, or the ones that are aware of us do not want us dead, or at least there are enough aliens to ensure that. Hawking is just being cautious, which is not a bad thing, but we should not jump to conclusions that all aliens are bad. Likewise, do not think that they are all good either. Thats all just my two-cents.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by Antor
If "they" (57 different species Clifford Stone) had been evil, they would have already erased us from this planet.


If they're really already here. Hawking's point is, they aren't here and don't know we are.

If they're here already, Hawking's wrong. If they aren't, maybe he's right and maybe he isn't, but you'd have to admit, he has a point.

I personally don't think it's a given that they're already here, or know we are. The Universe is like, really big. Finding us would be like finding a particular unique microbe on a specific grain of sand amongst all the grains of sand in all the deserts and beaches and ocean bottoms on the Earth, only spread out over an unimaginably large area. That is, don't wait up.
IMO.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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My thoughts are that we have sent out enough radio and tv broadcasts, probes, satelites, etc... that if an advanced civilization wanted to find us they would. Regardless of our SETI program. And if they are advanced enough to get here then they are advanced enough to wipe us out, so it's irrelevant. Hawking is just saying if your stranded in the ocean why chum the water? But he doesn't seem to remember that the swimmers leg is already bleeding.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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It's interesting, I was just watching a little bit of The Day The Earth Stood Still (the newer remake) while at home on lunch, and Kathy Bates' character (rep for the President in hiding) says something similar, talking about primitive cultures encountering more advanced ones, and either being exterminated or enslaved. It is a valid point, using the only measurement we know (us)...and I can certainly agree with and understand Hawking's warning.

Even if almost ALL aliens were peaceful, there is always the chance (assuming their existence and capability to detect and reach us) of attracting one of the few rotten apples too....

Here's another take though... All wars in human history have been about one thing (even if another topic was used as a smokescreen)....RESOURCES.

But, an alien with interstellar capability would no longer need to compete for resources. It would be like two men arguing for the same cheeseburger when there are 100 cheeseburgers on the table. The aliens could get whatever they need without the need of attacking inhabited worlds. This idea makes me a bit more optimistic of the chances of aliens being non-confrontational, but it still doesn't rule out that they may see us as no more than we see ants, and not even bat an eye over wiping us out, just as we don't when stepping on a bug..

We simply don't know...but I'm at least a little less convinced of the likelihood of animosity on their part....



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Nathwa
 


Thanks for your opinion Nathwa.
Deep & Stinging.
Star.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Antor
 



If "they" (57 different species Clifford Stone) had been evil, they would have already erased us from this planet


Or those 57 species are fantasy stories... Or these 57 benevolent species are ahead of us on the rung, but still behind many more advanced species who prefer to stay away from us but who wouldn't think 2 seconds about squashing us if we (or the other 57 species) got in their way.

As Michio Kaku says - ET will stay away from our planet and plunder resources on uninhabitated planets because even though we're primitive, we still have some fight as ants or bees in large numbers can kill one person. And even knowing about us, they may not wish to contact us for the same reasons that we don't talk to ants.

That does leave open the possibility that if we left our solar system in search of aliens, and we come across a nasty species by accident, and even if they want to stay away from us, this contact still increases the probability that they'll plunder earth's resources one day.

Also the word "evil" is relative. Are humans evil when we squash an ant just for fun?



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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The universe is a big freakin place.

Maybe they just haven't gotten to our neck of the woods yet. However, I like Dan Akroyds idea that we would be seen, especially in the wake of 9/11, as the kids in the sandbox that broke their toys and therefore not worthy of engaging with anyway.

Admittingly, I sit here on the fence but what makes the MOST sense to me is just as there are malevolent and belevolent creatures on earth whether that be our intrepretation of their animal behaviour or/and including our own behaviour so follows the nature of the universe. Both would exist in the deep reaches as space as well. I'm not sure why it would have to be one way or the other except to reinforce my above statement - the benevolent species may not find us worthy of engaging - don't disturb the natives and the malevolent ones would swoop down and ravage all of our natural resources.

But then, we are doing a good job of that ourselves aren't we?



Edit bedcause I never met a post I didn't edit for spelling or grammer
I need to add this to my siggy!

[edit on 5/3/2010 by Whisper67]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:32 PM
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You know what I think...any species that has survived long enough to develop interstellar travel, and haven't destroyed themselves within that time, with such advanced and dangerous technology at their disposal...can't possibly be a destructive and selfish species...unlike humans...

I doubt they would "swoop in and take what they need"...only humans could conceive that such a highly advanced race would so casually manipulate and steal from another sentient species...let alone destroy one...it's like saying the wise old man down the road goes and stomps on ant hills for no reason...only from a narrow minded human perspective would you conclude Aliens will most likely screw us over when we meet them.

Only a child (or mentally disturbed person) could see a purpose in destroying things for no reason...that's why I hate war...it's pointless death...a massive loss of life at the will of the elite minority...we act as nothing but pawns in their game, and we kill each other, when no one really wanted to kill or be killed in the first place...there are better ways to solve a problem than simply attack it with brute force...that's such a primitive reaction...

If Aliens wanted us gone, we would have been gone an extremely long time ago, in fact, I don't believe we'd be here in the first place if it wasn't for extraterrestrials.

[edit on 3/5/10 by CHA0S]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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Just like here on Earth i'm sure that there are good and bad alien lifeforms....But I do see hawkings point.......if an advanced being wanted to build an inter-galactic super highway i'm sure they would give us humans our eviction notice! (hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.....anyone).



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Thanks for your input.
My point of view is different because I am convinced that Aliens, numerous and different alien civilizations, have already visited us in last times; from primordial ages until these days.

In my opinion there isn't doubt about this.



[edit on 3-5-2010 by Antor]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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It's ridiculous to assume that all aliens would be benevolent, and even more ridiculous when you try to back that up with clifford stone talking about 57 other aliens that he probably made up.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by hippomchippo
 


Maybe. But I trust in Sgt. Clifford Stone. Honest, sincere and very brave man.
This could help.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Antor
reply to post by hippomchippo
 


Maybe. But I trust in Sgt. Clifford Stone. Honest, sincere and very brave man.
This could help.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes, but thats irrelevent, if Clifford Stone knew every single alien out there in our galaxy, then he would have a point, but he supposedly only knew 57, who's to say there aren't aliens that aren't in Clifford Stones knowledge that are not benevolent?



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by hippomchippo
 


Oh. Yes of course. Sorry. My misunderstanding.

He talk about the "known visitors" at this time.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Antor
reply to post by hippomchippo
 


Oh. Yes of course. Sorry. My misunderstanding.

He talk about the "known visitors" at this time.

Yes but you said aliens aren't "evil"
So how do you have knowledge of this? It seems like you would either need to know every single intelligent alien race, or somehow correlate that creating a FTL spaceship enhances the morality of a race, which seems ridiculous to me.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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Aliens will not come as warmongers or as agressors or anything like that. To build a society that can goto to the stars requires cooperation and intelligence and wisdom. Theres is nothing on Earth that you cant get elsewhere in terms of minerals. Now what Hawking meant I think was that any alien civilisation thats able to come here will have a profound affect on humaninity. As we have no world government who do they speak to? Do they speak to USA China Russia etc. If aliens do make contact with say China how do you think USA will react. They be paranoid as hell thinking these aliens are giving them weapons or something daft..Also what if they gave us technology to make to create extremely powerful power generators and when they leave the cavemen leaders of the world want to try and make a weapon from it and in the weapons test run we blow our planets to bits etc.....



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Antor
 


These aliens … the little guys with big eyes may be drones. Do you really believe any aliens in their right mind would come near human beings knowing the dangerous creatures we are?

We kill our own kids, rape each other; murder each other in wars and crimes.
Steal, rob, lie, hate, distort and don’t seem to be able to improve much.

Anyway

For those who assume that the aliens want us dead, or may want us dead. …Think again…remember they call us—containers

Indeed we are containers of
Negative energy

That why we are allowed to do what I describe above.

In other words . . . the aliens don’t have to destroy us . . .we are already destroyed



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