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Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

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posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
As for the preacher, I feel sorry for him. Not because his ignorant and ill minded a$$ is behind bars...

And that is where you go wrong. You may not like what he has to say, you may even hate him for it, but you should be upset that he's behind bars for saying it.




posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Anyone who disapproves of homosexuality is on the same boat as the KKK or the Nazis. True disgraces of our species.



A bit harsh Larry,come on dude- you can dissaprove of something without being considered a nazi surely?

Just because someone may dissapprove of something,it does not mean they wish to commit violence against you.

I dissaprove of meth heads,certain cult like religions,certain political parties.
My dissaproval does not mean that I wish to cause harm to those people.
It means I dissaprove of them.

Dissapproval is not a crime.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by GorehoundLarry
 


think about this, larry, if republicans are allowed to circulate this image and somehow are able to convince their constituents that they're not racist, I assume any person who would say homosexuality is wrong would look like a hero in this time period of it supposedly being more american to be christian



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by leo123


The world has totally gone mad supporting the homosexual agenda and beating down religion any way they can.


Anyone who disapproves of homosexuality is on the same boat as the KKK or the Nazis. True disgraces of our species.



Larry,

Do I approve of the Homosexual Lifestye? No, I don't.

Do I think it is sinful? Yes I do.

Do I think it's unnatural? Yes of course.

Will I shun you because of it? No.

Will I have you sent to the gas chambers because of it? Certainly not.

Will I burn crosses or commit you to slave labor? Certainly not!!

I actually have some gay friends. I in no way approve of their lifestyle, but I still think that is their choice to make.

Disapproval is not the same as bigotry!



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Maximus_Prime

Originally posted by justinsweatt


Spirituality and New Age-ism was one of the things that was very prominent at the turn of the 20th Century and Germany and look how that turned out.

As far as your quote about doctors, I have to say that I would probably take the advice from a doctor from 2000 years ago before I would discuss my options with a current doctor, who seems to be nothing more than a drug pusher for the pharmaceutical companies. Brujas, Curenderas, Indigenous populations, Hippocrates, man, I could go on and on about how they talk about diet, treating the disease and not just the symptoms. The same goes for Chinese Medicine as well. Google a lot of this stuff and it will blow your mind.

I am a Christian (though I do support the LGBT community. I do not believe that God would turn away from anyone) and I do find meaning in the bible, even after 2000 years. If I were immortal and the way that things are were still the same in 2000 years, I would still uphold the Constitution after 2000 years as well, especially the first 16 Amendments.

Also try not to judge and generalize. It would be nice to see the people on these boards when these things are discussed to stop looking at everything so black and white. It doesn't work that way.

Also, look at the ACLU, who have supported the Klan as much as they have the Black Panthers on free speech and that's the way it should be.


Germany is light years ahead of the US as far as understanding the lessons of history. However they do not have as good of a Geographical location.

As far as your Dr. rebuttal I find it laughable. I agree with you on the fact that drugs are way over prescribed etc and that Dr.'s have lost their ways, as far as GP's go. However I would disagree with you if i got shot by a gun.

facts vs. facts cause more well facts... I'm not trying to be black and white at all, so I apologize for that. However, I do hold gays in high regard. They can't procreate, and frankly the world is vastly over-populated. I always feel so strange when someone with 8 kids and counting says, "God has blessed us". No God didn't bless you, your just a selfish piece of # who cares more about his own DNA than anyone else.

My opinions are strong because we are in dire times in deed.


Touting a gunshot wound is totally extreme. I'm talking about health and healthy living, not extreme scenarios. Getting knifed, bombed, shot, all of those things are what I would consider extreme scenarios in your argument. Of course I'm happy for the advances that modern medicine has made in some ways, however it would be my opinion that we should take a more integrated approach.

The "spirituality" in Germany was me referring to Nazi Germany and how a lot of their new age ideals led to the anti-semetism of their day. Quoting Blavatsky and all sorts of other non-sense, as well as their housing of the OTO, the Golden Dawn, and various other consorts of Aleister Crowley. Now Buddhism and a lot of Eastern thought is fine with me, I'm just saying that a blanket "spirituality" is not exactly going to repress or prohibit violence. However, I'd hardly hold up Germany as the paragon of understanding history. Again, it seems that you might be guilty of holding up European style thought as the beacon of the Western World and I would disagree with you.

Now your other statements concerning over population et al are disgusting and am I not fond of opinions espoused in favor or Eugenics or Eugenics style programs. You are not a god, a deity, the world, or anything and you have no right to end someone's life for "the greater good". That is about the most tyrannical thing I think a person can say.

The other thing I have to say in response to your opinion of calling people "selfish" is why haven't you killed yourself? So you're so selfish that you expect to leave out your naturally occurring life at the expense of others? Doesn't that strike you as selfish?

You just filled the same intellectual landfill as the Westboro Baptists when you make such statements.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by justinsweatt]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by leo123


The world has totally gone mad supporting the homosexual agenda and beating down religion any way they can.


Anyone who disapproves of homosexuality is on the same boat as the KKK or the Nazis. True disgraces of our species.



Larry,

Do I approve of the Homosexual Lifestye? No, I don't.

Do I think it is sinful? Yes I do.

Do I think it's unnatural? Yes of course.

Will I shun you because of it? No.

Will I have you sent to the gas chambers because of it? Certainly not.

Will I burn crosses or commit you to slave labor? Certainly not!!

I actually have some gay friends. I in no way approve of their lifestyle, but I still think that is their choice to make.

Disapproval is not the same as bigotry!


Oh now we come to the "its there choice" argument. Is it your choice to be straight? Do you choice to fall in love with your partner?



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:50 PM
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Wow, after reading some of the replies ...

To all those just ecstatic over this guy being arrested for disagreeing with your lifestyle or belief system ... you are all a bunch of f******g hypocrites.

I suppose you would be just as happy if the protected class was the one who decided it was ok to toss homosexuals in jail?

No? Oh, only the ones who disagree with you, right?

Funny(sad, really) how I see the word bigot thrown around in reference to this man right before doing the same as him. Foolish asshats can't even see the hypocrisy in their own bigoted words. If this man is engaging in hate speech, are you not doing the same by condemning his religion, beliefs, and words? OH NO, it's not because you believe you're in the right... correct?

Disagreeing with someone is NOT hate speech. Calling someones lifestyle a sin is not hate speech. Calling you a hypocrite is not hate speech. Very little labeled as hate speech by hypersensitive whiny little babies is actually hate speech. Not even that last sentence. It's called an opinion. Even if it's not the official government sanctioned PC acceptable opinion. Unless he is actively calling for violence against homosexuals, why do you care what he believes? If he thinks you'll go to hell, so what? Really...

Oh, and before you get your fingers all cramped up trying desperately to get a quick response .... I don't care. If you believe this man should be in jail for expressing a belief you're a fool whose belief is much more dangerous than his.

I'll save you some trouble though. I'm not religious and couldn't care less if you're gay or not.

Lions and tigers and hate speech...OH MY.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Yeah sure. Homosexuality is still unnatural. That is what I think and no amount of talking is going to change that.

Do I think you have the choice to be gay? Sure I do.

Do I think they should lock someone up because he doesn't like gays? Hell no!

I don't agree with being gay, but it is still your call whether or not you will be a homosexual.

Was my previous post really that hard to get? I'm pretty sure I said it in plain English in the most literal way possible...

[edit on 3-5-2010 by DaMod]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by 1xion325alpha
Well all I really have to say after reading all these bigotry filled comments, as a homo sexual myself:

Another bigot bites the dust!!!!




I guess you don't see the irony in your statement. You do realise that expression of hate towards bigots is enough to land you in the same place the preacher was ...



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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I don't see any problem here and am happy to see the UK police doing a good job for once. By the sounds of it, this lunatic was preaching his archaic beliefs in public and harrassing people. Of course he should have been arrested and possibly assessed by a psychiatrist too. Public disorder offences are taken very seriously over here for a good reason.

Its ok to have extremist beliefs (such as christian or national socialist/nazi ideals) as long as you keep it to yourself and don't harrass people on the streets. I don't really understand why some people are crying about this. The law exists to uphold standards of decency and protect the public from extremists and it sounds like this fanatic over-stepped the mark. What if a child heard his non-sense and takes on board the insane idea that homosexuality is wrong?? That could lead to said child fostering hateful beliefs based on others sexual preferences and thats not how things work in an enlightened and progressive country like the UK. I hope the law makes an example of him and gives him a six month custodial sentence.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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I don't see any problem here and am happy to see the UK police doing a good job for once. By the sounds of it, this lunatic was preaching his archaic beliefs in public and harrassing people. Of course he should have been arrested and possibly assessed by a psychiatrist too. Public disorder offences are taken very seriously over here for a good reason.

Its ok to have extremist beliefs (such as christian or national socialist/nazi ideals) as long as you keep it to yourself and don't harrass people on the streets. I don't really understand why some people are crying about this. The law exists to uphold standards of decency and protect the public from extremists and it sounds like this fanatic over-stepped the mark. What if a child heard his non-sense and takes on board the insane idea that homosexuality is wrong?? That could lead to said child fostering hateful beliefs based on others sexual preferences and thats not how things work in an enlightened and progressive country like the UK. I hope the law makes an example of him and gives him a six month custodial sentence.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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What the preacher was saying is incredibly stupid and ill-informed, but to arrest the guy? Come on... This is just idiocy.

We have free speech. The free marketplace of ideas is an idea established by Justice Holmes in 1919, which basically states people should decide for themselves which ideas to accept or reject, based on reason and personal beliefs. Here's what he said in his dissenting opinion in Abrams vs. United States;

Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power and want a certain result with all your heart you naturally express your wishes in law and sweep away all opposition...But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas...that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution.

source

This whole culture of arresting people who exercise their free speech is disturbing, and is incredibly juvenile. If you don't like what the guy is saying, counter his argument, or his statement, or ignore it.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by JipStix]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Yeah sure. Homosexuality is still unnatural. That is what I think and no amount of talking is going to change that.

Do I think you have the choice to be gay? Sure I do.

Do I think they should lock someone up because he doesn't like gays? Hell no!

I don't agree with being gay, but it is still your call whether or not you will be a homosexual.

Was my previous post really that hard to get? I'm pretty sure I said it in plain English in the most literal way possible...

[edit on 3-5-2010 by DaMod]


Yeah, thats the thing, no matter what, you will never change your mind. Even if they come up with a gay gene, you will make up some bullsh*t on why its wrong. My brother is gay, and so is my sister. My brother had to move away from home because of the abuse he got from his friends. Helost almost everything, and was even suicidal for a short period of time, and you think he chose this! There are gay people in countries that are still being murdered, abused for being gay, and you think they chose this!

What you show is ignorance, simple as that!



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by Risen
Freedom of speech doesn't allow people to promote hatred towards any groups or individuals.

There is no such limitation on the freedom of speech, at least in the US. The constitution makes no distinction.


There is though. You should look into how the first ammendment applies to falsely yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater for more info.

If you're just putting people in danger by exercising your freedom of speech, you don't have any right to do that under the constitution. I'd call dehumanizing people with claims they're sinful or evil something which falls under that category. That's always the first step, to make violence against them easier.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by asturel13
I don't see any problem here and am happy to see the UK police doing a good job for once. By the sounds of it, this lunatic was preaching his archaic beliefs in public and harrassing people. Of course he should have been arrested and possibly assessed by a psychiatrist too. Public disorder offences are taken very seriously over here for a good reason.

Its ok to have extremist beliefs (such as christian or national socialist/nazi ideals) as long as you keep it to yourself and don't harrass people on the streets. I don't really understand why some people are crying about this. The law exists to uphold standards of decency and protect the public from extremists and it sounds like this fanatic over-stepped the mark. What if a child heard his non-sense and takes on board the insane idea that homosexuality is wrong?? That could lead to said child fostering hateful beliefs based on others sexual preferences and thats not how things work in an enlightened and progressive country like the UK. I hope the law makes an example of him and gives him a six month custodial sentence.


I don't know how it works in the UK, but here in the US you can stand on your soap box in public and state your opinions publicly. I always thought the UK had a similar approach.

If a child hears this rhetoric, it is up to the parents of the child to set him straight or perhaps maybe the child could take what the man said the way he deems necessary. I don't know about you but when I was 9 or 10 I was able to understand a lot more than I was given credit for.

I also have to disagree that the UK is any more enlightened and progressive than the US given the policy and the attitudes of the people. In fact I get targeted often for the simple fact that I am an American without any interrogatories as to my person. That alone is the definition of bigotry. Those same people will all but state that they are better than everyone else because they are British. That is not in my opinion the definition of enlightened nor progressive.

I do not direct this to all Brits, I have talked to quite a few (many on ATS) that are good upstanding people.

Now let me get back on topic here. The man stated an opinion publicly. Whether or not you disagree with the opinion the fact remains that an absence of free speech only belongs to the likes of a police state.

You take this right from one, you now have a free pass to take it from all. They can, they have, and they will continue to do so!



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
I don't know how it works in the UK, but here in the US you can stand on your soap box in public and state your opinions publicly. I always thought the UK had a similar approach.



That is how it is supposed to be but for some reason the government is allowing the abuse of power and suppression of free speech. Dont' get me wrong, if the guy had run up to a gay couple and started screaming in their faces it would be different as that could be considered threatening behavior. The same goes for the B&B owners who banned a gay couple from their business, that is illegal for a good reason.

This man should not have been arrested, he should be allowed to say whatever he likes as long as he doesn't hurt or threaten to harm anyone. I'm digusted at the road this country is going down, if i could leave i would.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod

Originally posted by asturel13


That could lead to said child fostering hateful beliefs based on others sexual preferences and thats not how things work in an enlightened and progressive country like the UK.




I also have to disagree that the UK is any more enlightened and progressive than the US




I never said, at any point, that the UK was more enlightened or progressive than the US. In fact, I never even mentioned the US!! Why are you even bringing that up?? I know first hand that certain parts of America are very progressive in attitude, whilst some parts are not so much. Its a bit arrogant to assume I was talking about your country or even attacking it when simply stating that my country does not tolerate extremist hate mongering.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by asturel13]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Risen
There is though. You should look into how the first ammendment applies to falsely yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater for more info.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That's all the Bill of Rights says when it comes to freedom of speech. It doesn't also say "oh and don't shout fire.' Now if we are talking about the "limitations" of freedom of speech, imposed by the courts, you will find there are very few, and the things you are mentioning are blatantly false. The limitations, called special exceptions, imposed by the courts are these, and only these:

Obscenity as judged by the Miller Test that depicts overtly sexual material without any scientific, literary or artistic merit

Libel or Slander

"Fighting Words," that would incite a physical confrontation.

Restrictions on commercial speech (false advertising)

and imminent lawless action, which are words that are threats to somebody directly. "i.e. I am going to kill the President of the United States" or "I will come into your house and rape your children." These things are threats of lawless action.

All other cases of restriction of hate speech and derogatory comments has been overturned by Brandenburg v Ohio. You can say anything you want, as offensive and derogatory as it may be, as long as it does not violate one of those special exceptions, and the accused holds the benefit of the doubt in the court.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Yeah sure. Homosexuality is still unnatural. That is what I think and no amount of talking is going to change that.

Do I think you have the choice to be gay? Sure I do.

Do I think they should lock someone up because he doesn't like gays? Hell no!

I don't agree with being gay, but it is still your call whether or not you will be a homosexual.

Was my previous post really that hard to get? I'm pretty sure I said it in plain English in the most literal way possible...

[edit on 3-5-2010 by DaMod]


Yeah, thats the thing, no matter what, you will never change your mind. Even if they come up with a gay gene, you will make up some bullsh*t on why its wrong. My brother is gay, and so is my sister. My brother had to move away from home because of the abuse he got from his friends. Helost almost everything, and was even suicidal for a short period of time, and you think he chose this! There are gay people in countries that are still being murdered, abused for being gay, and you think they chose this!

What you show is ignorance, simple as that!


Lol, you call me ignorant by posting by far the most ignorant post of the day.

I said I don't approve of the lifestyle. I also said you have the choice of the lifestyle.

Let me tell you a story. Every Thursday I go down to the local "Pub" and have a couple of beers. Many times I will sit and have a beer with my openly gay friend Preston. He is well aware that I do not approve that he is gay, but we sit and chat and banter on anyway. We are actually pretty good friends.

Disapproval is not the same thing as bigotry. I will say it again! Disapproval is not the same thing as bigotry. Disapproval is not the same thing as bigotry. Disapproval is not the same thing as bigotry.

Yes there are those that are murdered and persecuted for being gay. I am not one of the persecutors. I simply quietly disapprove and it has worked for me so far.

Lets get on topic here.

I have a question.

How do gays have the right to parade down public streets in drag stirring up all sorts of ruckus and a single man does not have the right to spout his opinion in the streets?

That is hypocrisy at its best and a definite double standard. This is 2010, not 1910. Let the guy spout in peace, he has every right to feel the way he does as you have every right to like men.

That is all I have to say about that.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Moonman1111
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


lol you do not want to go to hell, you just have no idea. Secondly God is not a 'super human'. And to answer your question God doesn't hate homosexuals, he hates homosexuality because it is caused by various chemicals and other negative environment influences and by direct demonic influence. You can call it what you want and believe what you want, but in the end everybody sees the truth one way or another.


There is no evidence what so ever that any religon has truth in it. None at all. In fact, things in the bible are being proved wrong all the time. And why is that? Its because of science. You religious people believed that the world was flat, that we are in the centre of the universe, that adam and eve were the first humans on earth (with no mention of dinosaurs) all a load of rubbish. But people will always be blind to this, and will always use there religon to preach hate!



The Bible speaks of the relationship between man and God, not dinosaurs. The Bible need not describe all the life forms God made, just that He made them. There is no talk of micro organisms either, but the average person would know that life, all of it was created by God. The Earth is over 4.5 billion years old. God could have created many species before man was created.




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