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Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

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posted on May, 11 2010 @ 05:11 AM
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I strongly disagree with those suggesting that homosexuality is on par with crimes paedophilia and murder. If you are willing to be honest with yourself, which is not easy on this topic, you will see that you are probably associating it with those things to validate your dislike of homosexuality. Remember that while you might not like the act, there is nothing illegal about two consenting adults of the same gender having sex with each other.

[edit on 11/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]




posted on May, 11 2010 @ 05:23 AM
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You cant put murderers and pedos in the same boast as gay people. Pedos and murderers harm other people. Everyone they interact with is a victim. It makes me sick that some people put gay people in the same group! But thats the primitive world for ya!

If you are going to put gay people in that group, you might as well put straight people in that list too.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Helmkat
 


Some nutball saying homosexuality is a sin is no different than a media talkshow host degrading nerds or, in some cases, vilifying them (in the case of dungeons and dragons players in the 80s many people considered them dangerous because of news casters.) My facts still stand, you cannot censor somebody because you don't like their message. You don't like it, too bad, deal with it.

Oh and by the by, Nerds still aren't the new cool, geeks are. Nerds are still outcasts who are picked on, assaulted, socially unacceptable and still considered dangerous by the media.


Our society vilifies many people at different times. However you cannot compare Nerdom to Homosexuality. Were Nerds rounded up by the Nazis and made to wear a patch with horn rimmed glasses? No, but Gays were selected for cleansing. Sorry its just not the same.

Oh and yes, Nerds and Geeks are the new cool. So if you are looking to be an outcast perhaps the term "Hacker" might be that pariah tag you are looking for.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by Intuitiveaptitude2009
reply to post by 1xion325alpha
 


Your response baffles me. Ask yourself this why was a gay man even in the church if he knew there would be a possibility that they might talk about homosexuals ? But you know what the best part is ? you insult the preacher. And you don't even know the new testament came after the old testament. How great is that ?


Hmmm, what does RTFA stand for again?

The preacher was on a busy street, standing on a stepladder, broadcasting his opinions to all and sundry when this incident occurred.

It was a woman who complained, not a homosexual.


Quite likely he was arrested for his own safety, to stop him getting his stepladder knocked over by upset hoodlums.

Sounds like a sad nutcase to me.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


Gays weren't rounded up in America or Britain. The argument is a moot point. Gypsies were also rounded up and branded in Nazi Germany, does that mean if I make fun of them I should get arrested.

Argument invalid.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Helmkat
 


Gays weren't rounded up in America or Britain. The argument is a moot point. Gypsies were also rounded up and branded in Nazi Germany, does that mean if I make fun of them I should get arrested.

Argument invalid.


The comparison between Nerds and Homosexuals was made by you. I countered that the level of bigotry between the two groups is not the same and gave an example, it so obviously not the same as to be laughable. Also "making fun" of someone as you say is not the same being singled out by a religion as a "sin".

And the case of the Gypsies? They too have been stereotyped and singled out for cleansing are you going to compare Nerdom to their plight as well? and to your question, yes , you can't just get up and preach violence and expect there to be no reprocussions.

While in America or Britian Gays may not of been singled out to by the Gov, as a group they suffered many more acts of violence against them then Nerds, thats a fact.

History



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


The amount of violence inflicted does not make it acceptable to censor ones free speech to disapprove of a person/lifestyle/trait/whatever. That's the point. of course making the comparison between nerds and gays is absurd, because this entire situation at hand, and the thought that you can censor people just because they said something bad is absurd.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Helmkat
 


The amount of violence inflicted does not make it acceptable to censor ones free speech to disapprove of a person/lifestyle/trait/whatever. That's the point. of course making the comparison between nerds and gays is absurd, because this entire situation at hand, and the thought that you can censor people just because they said something bad is absurd.


There is a difference between saying something "bad" and using the power of a respected postion in the community to condem an innocent person. This preacher was using his position of power to spread hate and his position of authority could easily incite others. This was not some kid saying "You stink poo-poo heads."



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Helmkat
 


So now you can pick and choose when to censor something just because somebody holds a "respected position?" That's a slippery slope, and an ignorant overlook of a fundamental human right of a persons freedoms.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 05:04 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on May, 11 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by Stormwind™

Originally posted by the illuminator
reply to post by WolfofWar
 


its completly different.

homosexuality is a choice. a choice to persue that temptation.

nerds are just clever



Under your user name I looked for occupation and it said member. I'll agree with that.

Homosexuality is NOT a choice do not be so daft. Really, the level of your comments borders on those of a school child. The choice as you then state is whether to pursue that temptation.

OK - sad as this is going to be - prove that being homosexual is a temptation. Or the act of living life as a homosexual is a temptation.


I mean this is going to be pitiful and cringe worthy to the point of toe curling in the extreme but it was also demonstrate the level of ignorance here from this poster.

Bring on the entertainment. Go for it illuminator.


you are a very aggressive individual and very rude.

but i will try.

it has never been NEVER been scientifically proven that homosexuality is hereditary.

you are right! its exactly the same as a temptation for liking women! you can have sexual feeling towards someone but your not going to do anything. THATS A TEMPTATION! "i could do something but im going to resist"

NOW if you ACT out that temptation! perform sexual relations that is wrong!

I never said acting out life as a homosexual is a temptation please read more carefully.

i said that was wrong.

the THOUGHT! is a temptation



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by the illuminator

Originally posted by Stormwind™

Originally posted by the illuminator
reply to post by WolfofWar



its completly different.

homosexuality is a choice. a choice to persue that temptation.


That is not proof it is an opinion, point of view, stand point. Fact.



it has never been NEVER been scientifically proven that homosexuality is hereditary.


Not so sure about that the studies that were shown were that around 10% of the population was homosexual. The conclusion was that to have such a percentage it would be almost impossible to rule out genetics had a causal effect. Later studies showed that the population was around 2-4% however the rules were strict for that study. You had to be a practising homosexual and be only homosexual, no bisexuality at all not even in past experiences so therefore only had homosexual activity ever, and you had to be out to your family. The results of the study showed 2-4% but admitted that should the criteria be opened up to people who were predominantly homosexual but had some straight experiences and did not need to be openly gay the results would in all probability be much higher. There were cultural influences that also had an effect on results and these were also discounted. Those being like those of India. Here it has long been the practice of an older family male, an uncle or cousin, to be given a young male just out of puberty, to be trained in the art of sexual activity. The understanding is they will teach them about sex. The theory is that "how can a man know a woman if he first does not know himself". Although this practice is dying out it has been the way of things for hundreds of years. Men are for pleasure women are for looking after the family and providing the heart of the home and the continuation of the family line. This cultural system opens up the possibility of homosexual relationships without the stigma. Because it is part of life NOT some westerners interpretation of what is wrong or right.
Because the studies have been so illuminating a cause had to be found. The mother often carries the gene that whilst causing a gay swing, does not usually make her gay though she may have had tendencies. The study is inconclusive fully but not due to the fact that it is not provable but rather it is hard to get people to be honest and open about their sexuality due to huge public pressures about what is wrong or right. So if you want the proof you so desperately claim does not exist - back of being such an uneducated God botherer and trying to arrange the world around you to your opinions and you may just see some evidence that even you cannot deny.

you are right! its exactly the same as a temptation for liking women! you can have sexual feeling towards someone but your not going to do anything. THATS A TEMPTATION! "i could do something but im going to resist"


I did not say that it was the same as having temptation for women, it was Jay, however I agree with him so I hope he will forgive me for answering that on his behalf. Agreed you have defined temptation. Well done. I did not say that, I said prove that being homosexual is a temptation. You said you never said being homosexual was a temptation and I believe after that you said, please read more carefully in a patronising tone lol. Here we go:


ihomosexuality is a choice. a choice to persue that temptation.


Homosexuality is a choice (comma) a choice to pursue that temptation. No you did say homosexuality was a choice, and you said it was a choice to be tempted by it. So to act on that homosexual temptation i.e. live life as a homosexual is a temptation which to act on would be wrong lol. That's exactly what you said, and your saying its wrong. So you did say that, I suggest you read more carefully.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 04:08 AM
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"OK - sad as this is going to be - prove that being homosexual is a temptation. Or the act of living life as a homosexual is a temptation."

To be a temptation it has to be something that you should not have or be. That has to be defined as wrong somewhere in order for it to be a temptation. Defined where though. And to be classed as FACT it has to have authenticity - now Illuminator - your opinion is not FACT its an opinion. Neither is mine. But in order to PROVE that the act of living life as a homosexual is a temptation - which after all is what I asked you to do - you need to find some legislation to back you up. I knew you would never be able to do that, because it is only ever an opinion. And opinions whilst they may be valid to some are rarely valid to all. Especially when you start trying to say that being gay is wrong. Dont say you didnt say it, because you would be splitting hairs. "your wrong if you act on it" duh, "thought" is an act, so if I think something homosexual I am wrong, pfffffffffff, stupid person. And your christian - so your perspective will always be trying to prove something using the bible and its teachings as a valid stand point. I have already removed that possibility from you in previous posts, so what did that leave you with, cornered person insults "please read more carefully na na na na na na." Which I have also removed from you.



NOW if you ACT out that temptation! perform sexual relations that is wrong!

I never said acting out life as a homosexual is a temptation please read more carefully.

i said that was wrong.

the THOUGHT! is a temptation


And now for the final and thankfully crushing bow - if you act out the temptation to perform a sexual act - that is wrong. You are just repeating yourself here. IT IS WRONG!!!!! ta da. No wait wrong acording to whom. OMG surely not the bible Illuminator. Please say your not using the bible as proof. Well if your not your just using your opinion again. OMG thats even worse.

THOUGHT is the temptation. NO thought is an act. I thought something. I did not think temptation. I can think about temptation, but the temptation has a cause, and therefore a subject. The subject is the temptation. And of course the Temptation is the subject. Am I losing you. I know I am lol. To help you out I will explain it more basically. Thought is just an act. Temptation is a "something". So this statement just serves to do nothing. It means nothing and is certainly not correct not even from your own perspective of opinion.


NOW if you ACT out that temptation! perform sexual relations that is wrong!


No it isnt. You have no proof. Empirical proof. No legislation, no social standard that most of us follow even though there is no law for it. For example we all know its wrong to humiliate disabled people. There is no law saying we cant joke about them amongst like minded friends, as they walk past. And as long as they do not hear, then nothing wrong has been done. However it is a social standard that we dont do that, because it is unkind. SO you dont even have a social standard law that says homosexual physical relations are wrong. Illuminator - you are wrong and I mean that both in a debate sense, and I mean it at a genetic level. You have nothing dude, just your opinion, which thankfully for most, counts for nothing. Good Bye.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by the illuminator

Originally posted by Stormwind™

Originally posted by the illuminator
reply to post by WolfofWar
 


its completly different.

homosexuality is a choice. a choice to persue that temptation.

nerds are just clever



Under your user name I looked for occupation and it said member. I'll agree with that.

Homosexuality is NOT a choice do not be so daft. Really, the level of your comments borders on those of a school child. The choice as you then state is whether to pursue that temptation.

OK - sad as this is going to be - prove that being homosexual is a temptation. Or the act of living life as a homosexual is a temptation.


I mean this is going to be pitiful and cringe worthy to the point of toe curling in the extreme but it was also demonstrate the level of ignorance here from this poster.

Bring on the entertainment. Go for it illuminator.


you are a very aggressive individual and very rude.

but i will try.

it has never been NEVER been scientifically proven that homosexuality is hereditary.

you are right! its exactly the same as a temptation for liking women! you can have sexual feeling towards someone but your not going to do anything. THATS A TEMPTATION! "i could do something but im going to resist"

NOW if you ACT out that temptation! perform sexual relations that is wrong!

I never said acting out life as a homosexual is a temptation please read more carefully.

i said that was wrong.

the THOUGHT! is a temptation


Even though not proven yet, chances are being gay is a gene thing. Take my mums side of the family. Two brothers are gay, and so is her sister. Out of my mums 5 brothers, 5 of there children are gay. Then there my own brother and sister, who are gay. To me, this tells me that its a genes thing.

Even though i am not gay, there is a chance one of my kids will be, if i have any. Its only a matter of time until this is proven. But lets be honest here, even if it if proven that there is a gay gene, would it change peoples mind on gay people? No way! and thats the sad fact here. We are arguing something here that some people will never agree with.

Also, this temptation stuff is rubbish. Are you saying gay people dont fall in love, and the gay couples that have been together for years is not through love?



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 04:41 AM
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Actually Jay its usually on the mothers side the gene sequence seems to need to be past from a female to her male child in order to produce consistently gay lad. However the results are skewed because twins have something different. They found that twins will usually be the same sex in 52% of twins tested. So if one twin is gay 52% of the time the other will be too. If one is straight then 52% of the time the other will be straight. Something about cell division mucking about with the gene process in twins.

My mum bless her, got pregnant by a bloke. He arranged the wedding, arranged the church, etc . . then his best friend decided he could not take it any more, so he told my mum that her lovelly husband to be was already married. Which he was. He was going to keep it a secret. So that went pearshaped. She had the baby (my older brother) and as was the custom due to religious pressure of having a bastered son, she gave him up for adoption. He tracked her down some 35 years later and it turns out although married with two kids, he has always seen men on the side. His adoptive parents were very religious. So after meeting me (gay) and my younger brother (gay), he decided to stop living a lie, living a life for god, and living the life he was given, for himself. His wife was really supportive and had always had her suspicions. They are still great friends. She is an atheist. LOL its funny isnt it, we as a race can always find a way to live a life, but as soon as you involve a religion, you start to get people bringing in rules. The very rules they set out to provide stability and "normality" are the very rules that lead to moral confusion and eventually to pain. We should just enjoy the bible like we enjoy other novels, and never try and use it as a rule book. As soon as you do, its limitations to take account of natures diversity come glaringly to the fore.

In fact usually this flaccid argument can usually be quelled with an easy statement - "if god created me in his own image that makes him either gay or he made a mistake. You choose."

The usual equally flaccid response is that "god gave you free will so he expects you to ignore your feelings and live a life of purity and chastity" Which implies due to the content of the bible I should either live as a sinner or become a priest.

I reply with "if I am to use the free will he gave me I will choose to sin like a maniac and then when I croak as he is an all benevolent god and will refuse no one entry into heaven i'll get the best of both worlds" lol

The bible is so floored in its do's and dont's there is ways around all its statutes. Only mans arrogance in its "proper" interpretation tries to tie you up in order to control. The bible in its form is not able to to do this because it was never meant to. It was meant to help and offer salvation to ALL. Only man would be arrogant enough to embellish its meanings and therefore speak on behalf of their God.

And if there is a more disgusting sin against God, I would imagine putting words in his mouth would be up there. Do not worship false idols he said - well a representation of God other than that which is explained in HIS bible, would be false wouldnt it. LOL its too easy.

[edit on 12-5-2010 by Stormwind™]



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 04:50 AM
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PEOPLE! HEAR MEEEE! DO NOT GET ME WRONG! AND DONOT GET GOD WRONG!

GOD DOES NOT HATE GAY PEOPLE

I REPEAT

GOD DOES NOT HATE GAY PEOPLE

HE LOVES YOU WITH ALL HIS HEART!!!!



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by Stormwind™
Actually Jay its usually on the mothers side the gene sequence seems to need to be past from a female to her male child in order to produce consistently gay lad. However the results are skewed because twins have something different. They found that twins will usually be the same sex in 52% of twins tested. So if one twin is gay 52% of the time the other will be too. If one is straight then 52% of the time the other will be straight. Something about cell division mucking about with the gene process in twins.

My mum bless her, got pregnant by a bloke. He arranged the wedding, arranged the church, etc . . then his best friend decided he could not take it any more, so he told my mum that her lovelly husband to be was already married. Which he was. He was going to keep it a secret. So that went pearshaped. She had the baby (my older brother) and as was the custom due to religious pressure of having a bastered son, she gave him up for adoption. He tracked her down some 35 years later and it turns out although married with two kids, he has always seen men on the side. His adoptive parents were very religious. So after meeting me (gay) and my brother (gay), he decided to stop living a lie, living a life for god, and living the life he was given, for himself. His wife was really supportive and had always had her suspicions. They are still great friends. She is an atheist. LOL its funny isnt it, we as a race can always find a way to live a life, but as soon as you involve a religion, you start to get people bringing in rules. The very rules they set out to provide stability and "normality" are the very rules that lead to moral confusion and eventually to pain. We should just enjoy the bible like we enjoy other novels, and never try and use it as a rule book. As soon as you do, its limitations to take account of natures diversity come glaringly to the fore.


Thanks for sharing this. Two of my mums brothers married two sisters, and they happend to be jehovah witness. One of the brothers had two children. A son named and a daughter. When the son was 18, he came out and said he was gay, and his family disowned him, and he has not spoken to his mum and dad, and sister for 20 years. It was strange because we all went to a wedding and sean was there, and so was his parents, and they were invisible to eachother, it was very sad.

But that is religon for you. It makes me sad bcause these people have ignored there son because of a religon and a God that does not exist


I live in brighton with my wife. My brother lives here too with his partner and he loves it. Brighton has a huge gay open community, and he feels safe here, which makes me happy



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by the illuminator
PEOPLE! HEAR MEEEE! DO NOT GET ME WRONG! AND DONOT GET GOD WRONG!

GOD DOES NOT HATE GAY PEOPLE

I REPEAT

GOD DOES NOT HATE GAY PEOPLE

HE LOVES YOU WITH ALL HIS HEART!!!!


Im sick of people thinking they know how God feels, and does not feel! You see, chances are being gay is a gene thing, which means they are who they are, and it cant be changed or anything like that. So, knowing this, you really think God would see that as a sin. Thats not God talking, thats the human mind, nothing more!



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 05:28 AM
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I read the bible a lot when I was young. I loved its colour its texture its truths its expressions. I asked my mom about its details and she said that I should find out for myself.

She wanted to get me christened, but had approached the local vicar to do this. "we have not seen you in church for a long time so I will have to wait and see that your faith is true and not just to satisfy some want and need from you". "I am suspicious of your motives so come to church every weekend for the next 6 months and we will look at the situation again", he said. LOL My mum who WAS deeply religious could not believe this representative of GOD would resort to blackmail. In fact had he been bothered about the whereabouts of my mother he would have realised she was critically ill with problems with her womb after giving birth to me. She was in intensive care, and so was I. My Twin died in the womb.

Growing up I as I said read the bible a lot and as mom was a bit vague on its draw, I asked friends and relatives should I be christian. Some said it was my path, others were Zellots and horrible to be around. As soon as I questioned certain parts of the bible I received aggression and stolid doctrine. But that is not answers. Its the "because I say so" defence. Thats not a fact its a viewpoint. I know that now but learned that then. So, i left the bible alone for a while. Months turned into years and so it went on.

Some time ago, I had a conversation with a vicar and said "what about all this stuff (meaning the bible etc) we talked and I was fascinated by his take on it. Man is not anything but man. You cannot blame him her for their actions but you can be wary of the results. The bible is the bible, only man uses its words to form argument. I asked him about being gay and this whole thing came up about it being a sin. He I have to say did not agree with it, and said it was outdated and rubbish, but said that the core of the bibles message was still true. I said if I am a sin against god why did he make me this way. He didnt he said, he made you able to choose.

So I chose paganism, because if god didnt make me this way in his own image, then nature sure as hell did so I will follow natures teachings. And what a beautiful way of life it is. There is no black nor white, there is only balance. AND OMG thank fook I wasnt christened, cause I would be gutted if I had the so called mark of god upon me. I feel that happened for a reason so that there was no barrier between me and nature.

Finally I am sorry to pour out the details of my life here whilst it is important to STAY on topic, I feel that this thread has evolved from what at first appeared to be an infringement on someones free will, to a discussion and a revealing one about the frailty of mans ego. I want to show where my roots started and where they now flourish under a fertile soil rather than a barren dust. This only applies to me I know but the point is, that if you clip and cut and slice and dice things so that they cannot be interpreted in any other way, than the way you have been shown, you are not a product of thought a being of growth and wondrous spiritual ether , you are a tape recorder, taking what you have been taught and quoting it by wrote and the only thing that evolves is your resolve to make others listen to you and only you. And that makes you uncomfortable to be around, and it drives people from you, but because of your message so they lump that together with your religion, then they forget you, and blame your religion. Religion is not to blame, the blame lies heavy on mans shoulders.



posted on May, 12 2010 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by Stormwind™
 




[edit on 12-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]




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