Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Oh come on! The bible is inaccurate on many things n(have you read the bible?) but people tend to ignore these inaccurate things

I have read the bible a few times...and even studied it a bit with regard to its original language. Apparently I've failed to recognize these alleged inaccuracies. Please be so kind as to provide me with clear examples of these falsities, or at least the scriptures you are referring to as I have no desire to believe in a lie.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
and spend most of their time being hateful with verses that were clearly invented by man, with no God involved at all.

I agree with you...there are a lot of people parading around under the guise of Christianity who preach a hateful message, and even use (or misuse) the Bible in the process. I honestly can't blame you for being a bit disenfranchised with Christianity and religion in general. The unfortunate thing is, this message falls very far from the roots that it sprouted from.

If you truly studied the Bible, you would be wonderfully amazed at the clear evidence that points to its divine authorship. There are multiple prophesies in the old testament and new that have been fulfilled which no man in his own understanding could have predicted. His word is completely covered with his fingerprints for any man to see...but alas, most don't want to see.

By the way, a circle can be flat too, and in the bible there is more evidence that they thought the world was flat than not.

Again, if you could point me to this "evidence" you speak of I would be greatly appreciative. In my studies, I have found ample evidence supporting the concept of a three dimensional sphere or ball being spoken of in Isaiah. Where in the Bible does it suggest the world is flat?

Ok, i will start with this one. I remember reading this a few months back. Its a great read, and for me, proves that man wrote the bible without God, or any supernatural force. There are plenty of condradictions like this in the bible. But i learned a long time ago that no matter what you say, religious people (well, most of them) will never change there mind on the subject. To change their mind, will change their outlook on life.So, they will refuse to believe it.

The creation account in Genesis divided time into days and the days into evening and morning for three days before the sun was even created (1:1-19). "There was evening and there was morning," we are told, "one day... a second day... a third day," but as any astronomer knows, evening (night) and morning (daylight) result from the earth's rotation with respect to the sun. With no sun, there would have certainly been evening or night, but there could have been no morning.

On the fourth day when God created the "two great lights" (the sun and the moon), he created the stars too. This creation of the rest of the universe was treated by the Genesis writer(s) as if it were little more than an afterthought: "he made the stars also" (v:16). To the prescientific mind that wrote this, it probably made sense. To him (her), the earth was undoubtedly the center of the universe, but today we know better. The solar system of which earth is only a tiny part is itself an infinitesimal speck in the universe. Surely, then, the creation of the stars would not have occurred so quickly and suddenly if six days were needed to create the world. Scientists now know that the creation of stars is an evolutionary process that is still ongoing. Matter coalesces; stars ignite, shine, and eventually burn out or explode. From the existence of heavy elements in our solar system, astronomers generally agree that it formed from debris left over from a supernova that occurred billions of years ago. The prescientific Genesis writer knew none of this, however, and that is why he viewed the creation of the universe as an Elohistic afterthought. No modern, scientifically-educated writer would have made that mistake.

The creation of the stars is the subject not only of scientific error in the Bible but also of textual contradiction. Clearly, the Genesis writer(s) said that God made the stars on the fourth day (1:16). By then, the earth had been created, light (somehow without the sun or stars) had been created, the gathering together of dry land had occurred, and vegetation had been created. One could surely say that by then the foundations of the world had been laid, yet Yahweh Elohim presumably told Job that the stars already existed when the foundations of the earth were laid:

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare if thou hast understanding. Who determined the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who stretched the line upon it? Whereupon were the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the cornerstone there-of, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (38:4-7).

Granted the "singing of the morning stars" is clearly a poetical expression, but that does not explain away the problem. How could it be said in any sense, poetical or otherwise, that "the morning stars sang together" at a time when stars didn't even exist? Obviously, then, the Genesis writer(s) and the author of Job had different perceptions of when stars were created.
The Genesis writer(s) didn't understand the nature of darkness either. He said that God created light (somehow before the sun and stars were made) and then "divided the light from the darkness" (1:3-4). Light, however, is not something that can be separated from darkness. Light is an electromagnetic radiation from an energy source like the sun or stars, and darkness is merely the absence of light. Without light, there will automatically be darkness. No god is needed to separate or divide light from darkness. We know that today; the prescientific Genesis writer(s) didn't.

The Genesis writer's genetic knowledge was no better than his understanding of astronomy. In chapter 30, he told of Jacob's scheme to increase his wealth while he was still in the employ of his father-in-law Laban. The two had reached an agreement whereby Jacob would be given all striped, spotted, and speckled lambs and kids subsequently born in Laban's flocks. Laban then removed all the striped, spotted, and speckled animals from his flocks and put them in his sons' care at a three-day distance from the flock Jacob attended. Not to be outsmarted, Jacob devised a plan:


Then Jacob took fresh rods of poplar and almond and plane, and peeled white streaks in them, exposing the white of the rods. He set the rods that he had peeled in front of the flocks in the troughs, that is, the watering places, where the flocks came to drink. And since they bred when they came to drink, the flocks bred in front of the rods, and so the flocks produced young that were striped, speckled, and spotted (30:37-39, NRSV).

The editors of The New American Bible were reputable enough to affix a frankly honest footnote to this passage:

Jacob's stratagem was based on the widespread notion among simple people that visual stimuli can have prenatal effects on the offspring of breeding animals. Thus, the rods on which Jacob had whittled stripes or bands or chevron marks were thought to cause the female goats that looked at them to bear kids with lighter-colored marks on their dark hair, while the gray ewes were thought to bear lambs with dark marks on them simply by visual crossbreeding with the dark goats.

We know today that the color characteristics of animals is purely a matter of genetics, so a modern, scientifically-educated person would never write anything as obviously superstitious as this tale of Jacob's prosperity. The Genesis writer(s), however, knew nothing about the science of genetics, so to him the story undoubtedly made good sense.

One thing the Bible definitely is not is inerrant in matters of science.

Originally posted by Afewloosescrews

By the way, a circle can be flat too, and in the bible there is more evidence that they thought the world was flat than not.

The Bible tells us the world is round and not flat.
The Israelites and Egyptians knew it was round.

Edomites(white people) didn't find out it was round till 1400's, and they actually found out the world is round and that there are people on the other side of the world in one shot by reading the Bible. (Apocrypha to be exact, which is why they tried to remove the Apocrypha from the Bible)

reply to post by Jay-morris


I had to take a few minutes before replying to such an ignorant post.
I felt like I was living in the movie Idiocracy for the few minutes it took to read it. It reminded me of "St. God's Hospital" on that movie.



But seriously, Jay-morris, how old are you? And what idiot taught you that GOD wrote the bible? Do you think that we Christians have some amazing image in our heads of The ALmighty sitting up in Heaven writing a book for us? Who found it? Jesus?

Of course the bible was written by man, several different men to be exact.

Are some Christians idiots that don't know anything about genetics? Yes. Are some atheists, pagans, etc... idiots that try to disprove the bible by making up interpretations of it? I believe you proved that with your post.

Glad she got arrested. One more religious nut behind bars

reply to post by The_Zomar




[edit on 6-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

I can't read threads like this, they make me quesy to listen to for the most part. It's too bad, because it looks like you're covering some interesting material. I'd like to point out that there are a lot of people who, like me, don't want to hear anything about homosexuality whenever possible. In cultural context, it can be sidestepped, and the issue not touched. There is no point arguing about it, it's simply asking for a hornets nest. To think that it's now against the law to preach what the Bible says, in a church environment which is not one of the denominations that supports it, is disgusting also.

Before I get labelled "bigot" for writing that, allow me to explain. Strong fences make good neighbours. That includes "soul boundaries", and it has been my experience that gay men have little respect of this concept. They just "drift right in" and wonder why people get a hate on over their proximity. It has also always grossed me out to be hit on, and those conversations don't tend to last longer than the next thirty seconds! (And no, it isn't to arrange a date lol) There is nothing but repulsion for some of us, so please don't be forward unless you are sure the other is somehow agreeable. Besides that, each to their own; it's not my life.

To think that churches can't speak on this issue is, I hope, not a trend of the future. What happened to "God's will, not ours"?

Its no secret We Christians think the gay life style is a sin......... I just dont think this arrest will hold up and there are going to be a lot of tax payers money spent on the forth coming lawsuit.

I bet if I ever met this preacher I would think him a total douche bag barely worthy of breathing the same air as the rest of us decent humans... BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one should be jailed for OFFENDING someone. That's freakin' INSANE.

What are we children in Kindiegarden? JEEZ.

This is just another example of the poor homosexual community not being able to stand up to critisizm (boo hoo) because our feelings might get hurt if we were told homosxuality is a sin (sniff) and we'd feel bad about it because inside we areally aren't all that confident about our beliefs (sniff).
They used to be called limp wristed and there is a reason.
The cop involved has homosexuals links, wait for it to be revealed.
Homosexual protestors are bigoted. Yes thats right. Homosexuals who complain that others don't agree with them are themselves bigots and I am waiting for the day we get a high profile case where we can be challenging them on mainstream TV where their arguments will be demolished in 30 seconds as done elsewhere away from cameras. People ask the wrong questions. There are some that homosexuals refuse to answer!

Homosexuals seem to be the weakest, pathetic group of males on the planet. My sons who are more men than these guys are more secure than these homosexuals. Anyone who didn't agree with their beliefs would bebignored because others opinions do not matter to them. Why. They are secure.

Insecurity is the biggets flaw of the homosexual apart from the siilyness of putting a penis up an anus that is not designed for vigoruos action as the layers of skin are far too thin and prone to breaking. It's about as insane as sticking a stick in your ear to clean out wax.

reply to post by daggyz


This isn't about gays, this is about the government legislating free speech.

You realize this is the foot in the door of shutting down speech that might cause any distress... such as that against the state right?

It's not about the gays being gay and weak you that's your ego talking.

Originally posted by moonleaf
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

I had to take a few minutes before replying to such an ignorant post.
I felt like I was living in the movie Idiocracy for the few minutes it took to read it. It reminded me of "St. God's Hospital" on that movie.

But seriously, Jay-morris, how old are you? And what idiot taught you that GOD wrote the bible? Do you think that we Christians have some amazing image in our heads of The ALmighty sitting up in Heaven writing a book for us? Who found it? Jesus?

Of course the bible was written by man, several different men to be exact.

Are some Christians idiots that don't know anything about genetics? Yes. Are some atheists, pagans, etc... idiots that try to disprove the bible by making up interpretations of it? I believe you proved that with your post.

That was a totally shoot from the hip idiotic statement. Had you taken the time to aim moonleaf (a very pagan username btw) you would have realised that Jay had to prove that there were contradictions within the bible proving it was written by man and not the word of god. That means man interpreted gods word. So in effect proving the other point he had to prove. That the sin of being hmosexual was not proven to be gods word but a homophbic choice written in by man caused by his own bias. Which Jay achieved. Well done Jay. Moon leaf you I am afraid are a reactionary and ignorantly raging using your faith as a shield. In a totally patronising way. God would be so proud of what he has achieved here. Imagine how chuffed he must be.
Moonleaf you would do well to hang up your bible and do some research into the pagan faith because most Christians follow a pagan path. It's quite hillarious really. On your altar you have your elements earth air fire water just like pagans. You worship at our festivals not your gods. Winter solstice oestre lol. It's funny. You cleanse things with smoke but you call it consecration lol. Smudging in pagan terms. As someone who knows both worlds the overlap is huge. Churches are built on pagan sites. Not all but many. Holy wells are offering sites where the great mother gave forth from the earth life giving water. It's fascinating and wonderful and diverse. Until you get such an agressive lecturing controlling load of old rehashed tripe. From the likes of you. Like the Iraqi people. You are not religious quoting from your good book in order to put forward your opinion. You are a hate mongar using your good book and twisting it's words to suit your own predjudice and placing yourself above god and deciding which bits to listen to in order to further your own argument. God does not hate if he exists. He would weep to see your mind close, your teeth clench and your hands speak on his behalf in such a self imposed superior manor. You dont speak on his behalf. You speak only on your behalf and only from your IMHO limited perspective. And I pity you for it. I pity all those that will be disliked because of your standpoint and others in this post who speak out with alike prejudice who show a false representaion of those who follow their faith with the consideration and love that your so called God purports to extol. For Shame.

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Stormwind™]

Originally posted by moonleaf
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

I had to take a few minutes before replying to such an ignorant post.
I felt like I was living in the movie Idiocracy for the few minutes it took to read it. It reminded me of "St. God's Hospital" on that movie.

But seriously, Jay-morris, how old are you? And what idiot taught you that GOD wrote the bible? Do you think that we Christians have some amazing image in our heads of The ALmighty sitting up in Heaven writing a book for us? Who found it? Jesus?

Of course the bible was written by man, several different men to be exact.

Are some Christians idiots that don't know anything about genetics? Yes. Are some atheists, pagans, etc... idiots that try to disprove the bible by making up interpretations of it? I believe you proved that with your post.

Ok, basically you can't answer my post, so you try and make out its stupid, but you are the one who has been left looking stupid. I was told to post a bible contradiction, so i posted one of many that are in the bible. I believe that the bible was written by man, without god having anything to do with it, and you have just agreed with me, so, thank you very much. Im happy for you that you see the light now, and can actually think for yourself

Originally posted by daggyz
This is just another example of the poor homosexual community not being able to stand up to critisizm (boo hoo) because our feelings might get hurt if we were told homosxuality is a sin (sniff) and we'd feel bad about it because inside we areally aren't all that confident about our beliefs (sniff).
They used to be called limp wristed and there is a reason.
The cop involved has homosexuals links, wait for it to be revealed.
Homosexual protestors are bigoted. Yes thats right. Homosexuals who complain that others don't agree with them are themselves bigots and I am waiting for the day we get a high profile case where we can be challenging them on mainstream TV where their arguments will be demolished in 30 seconds as done elsewhere away from cameras. People ask the wrong questions. There are some that homosexuals refuse to answer!

Homosexuals seem to be the weakest, pathetic group of males on the planet. My sons who are more men than these guys are more secure than these homosexuals. Anyone who didn't agree with their beliefs would bebignored because others opinions do not matter to them. Why. They are secure.

Insecurity is the biggets flaw of the homosexual apart from the siilyness of putting a penis up an anus that is not designed for vigoruos action as the layers of skin are far too thin and prone to breaking. It's about as insane as sticking a stick in your ear to clean out wax.

My God! So much hate, and so much bullsh*t in your post. So homosexuals seem to be the weakest pathetic group of males on the planet eh? No, you are wrong on that. You and your bible cronies are the weakest pathetic group of males on the planet. You talk so much rubbish that it would be hard to have a decent intelligent consversation with you, so i won't Unless you try and back up what you say instead of all your hate talk, then im not interested.

But i get the feeling that you and intelligent dont go hand in hand

Originally posted by Northwarden
To think that it's now against the law to preach what the Bible says, in a church environment which is not one of the denominations that supports it, is disgusting also.

Your misinformed. It happened at the top of a step ladder in a shopping area. Not in a church environment. He was handing out leaflets which detailed the commandments. A woman went up to him and took a leaflet and spoke to him about his beliefs. Whatever he said to her she then complained to a Police Community Support Officer (PCSO) NOT a policeman, who deemed that his preachings may be offensive under the public order act. This act whilst preserving peoples right to free speech does so on the understanding that it will not cause stress or incite hatred of any other member of the human race. It protects your rights to not be offended. The PCSO spoke with the man and explained his sexuality which earned him a 20 minute sermon on the subject. At which point three Policemen were called - I assume due to the content and context of his 20 minute sermon.

If your going to have an opinion its usually as well to see what happened fully before assuming the worst. Churches are still the place to sell your wares. And this has not removed that right.

Telegraph article not quoted but sourced.

PSO - no confrontational abilities cannot arrest and can only intervene in a situation if it does not mean physical contact. Verbal abilities only. Traffic abilities such as parking fines etc. Have full contact with police via radios. Like a neighbour hood watch with a uniform and a radio.

Here is their website and explains fully who and what they are:

www.policecommunitysupportofficer.com...

Originally posted by Northwarden: To think it's now against the law to preach what the bible says.

Its dangous, thats why it troubles me. People read the bible, and they will interpret differently to the next person. Look at the christian white power groups. They believe that the white race is the only important race on the planet, and they right some disgusting and hateful things about non white people. KKK is another group that is very dangous, and all from the bible they spread there hate.

If you are a hateful, violent person, then you will find hateful and violent things in the bible. Same as the koran. hateful and violent people will find verses where they say its ok to kill no muslims and blow themselves up! It seems to me that these people cant live without violence and the bible draws these people in and give them an excuse to spread there hate.

Now. lets turn to the catholic church. Even though we all know its wrong to rape and abuse children, the church covered it up and these priests were just moved around. That to me just proves the evil that is in religon.

reply to post by Jay-morris

That to me just proves the evil that is in religon.

Not so much religion IMO, but as you stated in the rest of your post, the potential for evil is in people, and religions often grease the wheels of the expression of that evil in those so predisposed.

Good people find good guidance in whatever religion it is they follow. Many good people don't need any religion whatsoever, and remain good people.

In the end, its the person doing the interpreting of the message(s); moreso than the message itself. The one's interpreting things badly have gotten away with it too much in history because religion had this cloak of purity which we now all know is false.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

That to me just proves the evil that is in religon.

Not so much religion IMO, but as you stated in the rest of your post, the potential for evil is in people, and religions often grease the wheels of the expression of that evil in those so predisposed.

Good people find good guidance in whatever religion it is they follow. Many good people don't need any religion whatsoever, and remain good people.

In the end, its the person doing the interpreting of the message(s); moreso than the message itself. The one's interpreting things badly have gotten away with it too much in history because religion had this cloak of purity which we now all know is false.

I know there are good people in all religons. I have alot of respect for the buddist religon. While i was living in china, i went to many places and temples, and all i felt was peace and a very spiritual sense of well being, and i like that. If you are religous, and a good person, then i really dont care, But, the other side of the coin is this. If the bible says that being gay is a sin, then i have a problem with that. And as i kmnow in myself that the bible is made made, with no god involved at all, then that upsets me.

I have seen posts on here of so called religous people being very hateful towards being gay. Saying some very bad things. Now, if they are as religous as they say they are, then why dont they say it in a less hateful way, as "God" would intend them too?

The reason why is because they love the fact that they feel they can be hateful and insulting because the bible says its sin, but all i see are very hateful people enjoying what they are saying, and the sort of people who would still hold that view, even if the bible says that being gay is ok.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

That to me just proves the evil that is in religon.

Not so much religion IMO, but as you stated in the rest of your post, the potential for evil is in people, and religions often grease the wheels of the expression of that evil in those so predisposed.

Good people find good guidance in whatever religion it is they follow. Many good people don't need any religion whatsoever, and remain good people.

In the end, its the person doing the interpreting of the message(s); moreso than the message itself. The one's interpreting things badly have gotten away with it too much in history because religion had this cloak of purity which we now all know is false.

THAT statement is worth quoting as a wake up call to everyone. TOTALLY agree. And not because it is what I said already in previous posts but because its common bloody sense. Good post!

[edit on 7-5-2010 by Stormwind™]