Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

This theory in common knowledge im afraid. So, chances are, it was spead from animal to human, and most prob not a gay person!

and here

reply to post by Jay-morris


Jay I will find a documentary where the man responsible is apologizing for starting the HIV epidemic.
veehd.com...

It is not a guessing game, they have tested the original vaccine and found HIV among other things.



[edit on 5-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Jay I will find a documentary where the man responsible is apologizing for starting the HIV epidemic.
veehd.com...

It is not a guessing game, they have tested the original vaccine and found HIV.

That video is not working. You look anywhere on official, or many other sites on aids, and the theory is the same.

reply to post by Jay-morris


Your loss, you will see folks defending Salk to all ends. It doesn’t change the facts. Humans have hunted monkeys for millions of years the HIV outbreak coincides with the polio vaccines perfectly. No one wants to admit that the eradication of polio resulted in the greatest human tragedy in history.

If its just the sound that doesnt work try dowloading some codecs. veehd rocks by the way.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
According to the HRW in 2001 there was roughly 140,000 reported prisoner-on-prisoner male rapes in the US.

The operative word here is reported.

The few studies that have been done on prisoner rape reveal astonishing rates of abuse. A recent study of prisons in four Midwestern states found that approximately 20 percent of male inmates reported a pressured or forced sex incident while incarcerated. About nine percent of male inmates reported that that they had been raped. Unfortunately, no conclusive nationwide data exist.

www.menstuff.org...

Now according to the CDC, as of 2006 there are between 800,000-900,000 people in the US with AIDS/HIV, so even if 100% of those sexual assaults produced a transmission of HIV (something us scientific-like folks like to call EFFING IMPOSSIBLE) than I'd have to say your full of it.

Rates of HIV are five to ten times as high inside of prison as outside, making forced or coerced sex - where prevention methods are virtually nonexistent - a deadly proposition. Though reliable statistics are unavailable, inmates have contracted HIV through prisoner rape, a phenomena that has been described as "an unadjudicated death sentence."

www.menstuff.org...

Today, nearly 2 million people are serving time, and more than 10 million separate admissions to and discharges from prisons and jails occurred in 1999 alone. One out of every 140 people in the United States is now behind bars, the highest rate of any industrialized nation.

Hmm. 10 million people of which 20% report being coerced into some type of sex. That's 2 million people that are 5 to 10 times more susceptible to contracting HIV.

Don't pull things out of thin air to support your beliefs, there's enough of that crap on ATS already.

I pull nothing out of thin air. If you don't believe that the statistic for MSM doesn't include these people, then that's not my ignorance being shown.

reply to post by Jay-morris


I don't believe that you have ever read the bible, friend. Some of the insane things that you are saying are in the bible just aren't in there.

As for saying that God would create people to be a certain way that is sinful, everyone is prone to sinful thoughts and actions. There are kleptos that feel the need to steal, compulsive liars, pedophiles that have disgusting urges, all kinds of people with urges to do sinful things. Even the most normal people have the urge to lie, cheat, and steal at times. That doesn't make it okay. That doesn't make it not a sin just because you feel the urge to do that.

That argument would say that it is okay to murder people because you were "just born that way."

Personally I believe for the most part that people are products of their environments. Things that wouldn't affect some people can be traumatic to others. I know a man that became gay after he grew up. He was not gay when he was young. He had a really screwed up childhood and you could ask him if he was gay when he was young and he would tell you no.

Why is it that so many homosexuals were victims of sexual abuse when they were young? I don't have any reported statisics on that other than my own. Every gay person that I know experienced an extremely bad childhood or were sexually abused when they were young. Every single one. And I know quite a few.

I am not an evil person, and I know that there are people that cannot control how they feel. What worries me is that in this time of over the top tolerance, it seems that people are encouraging homosexuality. There are plenty of young people that are having sex with both sexes because they think it is so cool and anything goes.

You seem to be the hate mongerer on this forum. I am proud to be a Christian and you feel the need to bash Christians with remarks that show your ignorance of Christianity. There are extremists that say terrible things about those that are different. But true Christians accept homosexuals as sinners just as we too are sinners that tell white lies, covet what our neighbors have, have sex out of wedlock, etc...

What it comes down to in my opinion is that we all have a "choice" in how we live our lives. No matter how strong the urge is to do something and no matter how much we enjoy doing certain things, there are some things that are sinful to do. And if you are at peace with God and God accepts you as you are then that is what matters, not what someone else says about you or your lifestyle.

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Afewloosescrews

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Lol Thats funny. But on a serious note, it really annoys me that these people are will to ignore the crap that is in the bible (thats why they have not answerd my questions) but anything that can stir up hate, then they are on it like a shot! And logic tells you they are using the bible as an excuse to hate things they already hate anyway.

Which "crap that is in the bible" are you referring to exactly? I am more than willing to answer your questions, and I promise not to stir up any hate!

Unless of course you view things such as sincerity and truth to be hateful. : )

Where do i start! The age of the eath, earth being flat, being center of the universe, adam an eve,evolution, i could go on. So, this peace loving God thinks being Gay is a sin! A person, who cant help there sexuality, is deemed a sinner by God! All powerfull God!. This is just stupid, and clearly a law made up by man, like all the stuff in the bible.

But i know, no matter what evidence comes up, no matter how conclusive, you are not gonna change people beliefs. We are a very primitive race

Jay, I genuinely would love to take time to consider, and try and answer some of your "questions," but to my dismay...I don't see any. If you are claiming that the Bible is inaccurate about certain things in the scientific or historic realm, could you please point out those scriptures that you believe to be in such error?

In my study of the Bible, I have never seen a date pinned on the technical age of the earth, nor any reference to the idea that it is flat or the center of the universe.

In fact, quite to the contrary. More than 2,000 years before man recognized that the earth was round, the Bible said in Isaiah 40:22: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth,” or as other translations say, “the globe of the earth” (Douay), “the round earth.” (Moffatt)

Surprised?

Now to speak to the Adam and Eve/evolution thing...please note that most serious scientists (evolutionist and creationists alike), are forced to admit that, although there are numerous theories, the origins of life can never really be proven nor refuted.

It's the "what happened after matter came into existence" question that holds so much contention.

If you were to entertain the view that the world had a creator or designer, clearly the very being who created the universe would also be the one responsible for species that resulted from His design (Adam and Eve), regardless of how you believe these species evolved or developed. Although I personally don't believe in the commonly accepted view of macro-evolution, one could easily (and many do) accept the theory of evolution while holding on to Biblical account in Genesis..albeit, in an allegorical sense.

As for homosexuality being a sin...I must ask, what does the word "sin" mean to you? Do you even believe there to be such a thing? You must realize that according to the Bible, ALL men are sinners...homosexuals, Atheist, Jews, Muslims, and Christians included. It is for this very reason that we are ALL in need of salvation from the consequences of that sin.

The God of the Bible has never been exclusive with whom he deems a sinner, and He has been equally non-exclusive with whom he loves. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

Jay, I would encourage you to honestly look into these things. I'm sure people have hurt and offended you in the name of Christianity, but please don't let this define who God is or isn't to you. Again, people are sinners. There is the only One who will never let you down. The truth is out there, and it's readily available to those who seek it.

Dig on my friend.

If God has been saving the Queen all these years, how about the Queen saving one of God's readers of God's words?

Not surprised. Pilgrims came to America because the Brits would not let them read English Bibles at home. It was either leave or go to jail.

New century, old habits never die.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean



OK just to make my stand point clear. Moonleaf and that other religious zelot that keeps heaping up the thread with religious scripture dont bother even looking in my direction. I assure you your time will be well and truly wasted trying to lecture to me using laughably the bible, a book, one in a billion trillion books, as your defence as to why you are right.

ON this site, people show evidence of things happening with regard to UFO's through the media of film and leaked documents. Personal experience and anecdotal evidence is not evidence it is a story. A story based in truth maybe but never the less a story. Stories get distorted. Your religion is a faith NOT a fact. Go peddle it somewhere else.

As to Donkey (how apt a name) after rummaging round the internet I found a decent reference to in some way back up your tripe. The reference is from time magazine. However the articles info is from a credible source. More credible than you or any on here.

www.time.com...

Please note the infected vaccine you drivel on about is ONE of TWO examples (only examples) of how the virus was spread. Now if the vaccine as you say was for HEP B then why is that gay orientated. Do you not know that HEP B is spread in many ways. here have a read:
HEP B TRANSMISION


Which means anyone could need the vaccine. Anyone who has HEB B or is at risk of getting HEP B. And as the site gives as an example, pregnant mothers breast feeding their children can spread it. Ignorant assumption is not fact.

As to the original argument about this idiots human rights being affected and his right to free speech. I say this. I agree everyone has a right to free speech - AS LONG as it does not hurt other peoples rights to live free from persecution. And using religious arguments, quoting from a book that you cant even prove is based on total fact, is a sad testament to that stupidity of those that would listen and judge. Funny how people only ever pipe up to use religious scripture as a basis for an argument as long as it does not mean they are guilty of the same thing. Or can be proved to be guilty.

I watched this and although this was aimed at the catholic church I think it speaks to all Zealots whatever your race colour or creed. When you use religion to justify your argument as to why someone is in the wrong you are a fool like no other. It would be like saying they are wrong because the news paper says they are. Its a joke. You people need perspective. You people need to realise that whilst it fine to adore your god, its not fine to ram it down anyone else' throat. Enjoy your beliefs dont be so blinded by them, that you lose your perspective.

Remember: anyone who is religious and on this thread only, DO NOT talk to me on here. I am not interested in reading scripture as a defence. Its pathetic. You will be wasting your time. Your god as far as I am concerned is a non entity. I am totally religious btw but I follow natures ebb and flow.
Enjoy the VID here and get another perspective. It is in five parts but this is the first, the others you can search for if you can be bothered.

Vid 1

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by WolfofWar
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

Except in much of the western world, it is a gay disease. The people that have been hit hardest in America and most of Europe from HIV/AIDS were homosexual males. To deny that is to deny probably the biggest issue in the community that there is.

It is not a gay disease. Do only gay people get it no! If you get Aids through sex, then its the person fault, nothing else and no one else. If i went out tomorrow and had sex with a girl without protection, and i get aids, then its my fault!.

See the mistake you made there Jay was you should of after this hilarious statement said PROOF NOW OR GO AWAY

and that goes for the equally laughable statement after it in the following post.

So i'll do it for you Jay - Wolf - proof now. Ill wait it will be worth the laugh.

In the western world it is a gay disease lol. Er no it is a disease. "No one said it was a gay only disease". Erm no they stupidly said it was a "mainly" gay disease. And still no it is a disease that affects anyone who comes into contact with it.

Blood transfusion - hepatitis sufferers, car accident victims, to name a few
Hospital workers - needle stick injuries, cleaners who clean up infected surfaces
Children who breast feed from infected mothers
Fertility clinics who do not screen donated sperm.

The transmission is due to negligence, poor attitudes (i wonder who that could mean), poor education on routes of transmission (ditto), and poor reporting procedures. Urban myth peddling.

Question - can aids HIV be spread through saliva whilst engaging in oral sex. Urban myth no/yes????

There is one reported case in the UK where they can say it did happen. Why not more - because most often in the cases reported the results were confusing because oral sex inevitably led on to full sexual intercourse. I am of course referring to all sexual intercourse NOT just that between males.

PROOF please not just sweeping statements or ready forum conclusion based on "well I heard". You say it yourself there is enough of that on here. You just added to it well done.

Oh by the way - my evidence came from the research of the THT (Terrence Higgins Trust). An organisation renowned for their work in the filed of AIDS HIV. They have their own website. They, at least are doing their bit to combat the ignorance that is rife among all people its a shame that they are not on the curriculum at schools as well as religious education.

This is just another blatant example of Orwellian political correctness,where insanity is disguised as reason and sold as cultural memes to the masses.

reply to post by Stormwind™


It was the very first HEP vaccine and it was geared towards the gay community. www.whale.to...

It is all conjecture, but the outbreak of AIDS coincides perfectly with the inoculations. I did see a documentary once were the man responsible for those first HEP vaccines talks about his concerns and how he was told to push ahead anyway. He clearly states that at first they used green monkeys but do to some supply problem began using chimp organs. He clearly states that the vaccines were contaminated with an unknown virus and a cancer causing one.

In Africa many witnesses (locals who were involved.) attest that the polio vaccines were made from locally available chimps. The first confirmed case of AIDS occurred a year after the inoculations. People have been eating chimps for millions of years and AIDS was still a non issue. But almost overnight almost all the countries youth developed HIV.
This documentary lays it all out: veehd.com...

It is contested friend, as it involves vaccine safety but the case is pretty clear to me. I am still trying to find that documentary about the HEP vaccine it’s out there and I will find it.



[edit on 6-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by Stormwind™

 

It was the very first HEP vaccine and it was geared towards the gay community. www.whale.to...

[edit on 6-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Shoolboy error Donkey old chap - never use a site unless your sure of its pedigree. Myself I am chuffed to bits your using this site to defend your opinion. Because I agree with the sites opinion looki here at what else your site has to say:

www.whale.to...

reply to post by Stormwind™


Yeah I didnt read it I just saw the fliers. I have seen a documentary about this that made a very strong case in support of this theory. I will find it I just need some time.

Please watch the second video though it is pretty cut and dry, and presents both sides of the debate.

Why would you suspect that the gay commnity was the first and hardest hit?

[edit on 6-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by Stormwind™

 

Yeah I didnt read it I just saw the fliers. I have seen a documentary about this that made a very strong case in support of this theory. I will find it I just need some time.

Please watch the second video though it is pretty cut and dry, and presents both sides of the debate.

Why would you suspect that the gay commnity was the first and hardest hit?

[edit on 6-5-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

I don't suspect that it did or does. You said it did and does.

Originally posted by moonleaf
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

I don't believe that you have ever read the bible, friend. Some of the insane things that you are saying are in the bible just aren't in there.

As for saying that God would create people to be a certain way that is sinful, everyone is prone to sinful thoughts and actions. There are kleptos that feel the need to steal, compulsive liars, pedophiles that have disgusting urges, all kinds of people with urges to do sinful things. Even the most normal people have the urge to lie, cheat, and steal at times. That doesn't make it okay. That doesn't make it not a sin just because you feel the urge to do that.

That argument would say that it is okay to murder people because you were "just born that way."

Personally I believe for the most part that people are products of their environments. Things that wouldn't affect some people can be traumatic to others. I know a man that became gay after he grew up. He was not gay when he was young. He had a really screwed up childhood and you could ask him if he was gay when he was young and he would tell you no.

Why is it that so many homosexuals were victims of sexual abuse when they were young? I don't have any reported statisics on that other than my own. Every gay person that I know experienced an extremely bad childhood or were sexually abused when they were young. Every single one. And I know quite a few.

I am not an evil person, and I know that there are people that cannot control how they feel. What worries me is that in this time of over the top tolerance, it seems that people are encouraging homosexuality. There are plenty of young people that are having sex with both sexes because they think it is so cool and anything goes.

You seem to be the hate mongerer on this forum. I am proud to be a Christian and you feel the need to bash Christians with remarks that show your ignorance of Christianity. There are extremists that say terrible things about those that are different. But true Christians accept homosexuals as sinners just as we too are sinners that tell white lies, covet what our neighbors have, have sex out of wedlock, etc...

What it comes down to in my opinion is that we all have a "choice" in how we live our lives. No matter how strong the urge is to do something and no matter how much we enjoy doing certain things, there are some things that are sinful to do. And if you are at peace with God and God accepts you as you are then that is what matters, not what someone else says about you or your lifestyle.

Why do people believe that gay people sexually abused. This really pi**es me off. That is a damn right lie, and no truth in that what so ever, and its things like this that really make me think that these people are just trying to find excuses why being gay is bad! I know plenty of gay people, my brother and sister included, and we all had a great upbringing. Had great parents, and friends, so what you are saying is a complete load of rubbish!

Originally posted by Afewloosescrews

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Afewloosescrews

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Lol Thats funny. But on a serious note, it really annoys me that these people are will to ignore the crap that is in the bible (thats why they have not answerd my questions) but anything that can stir up hate, then they are on it like a shot! And logic tells you they are using the bible as an excuse to hate things they already hate anyway.

Which "crap that is in the bible" are you referring to exactly? I am more than willing to answer your questions, and I promise not to stir up any hate!

Unless of course you view things such as sincerity and truth to be hateful. : )

Where do i start! The age of the eath, earth being flat, being center of the universe, adam an eve,evolution, i could go on. So, this peace loving God thinks being Gay is a sin! A person, who cant help there sexuality, is deemed a sinner by God! All powerfull God!. This is just stupid, and clearly a law made up by man, like all the stuff in the bible.

But i know, no matter what evidence comes up, no matter how conclusive, you are not gonna change people beliefs. We are a very primitive race

Jay, I genuinely would love to take time to consider, and try and answer some of your "questions," but to my dismay...I don't see any. If you are claiming that the Bible is inaccurate about certain things in the scientific or historic realm, could you please point out those scriptures that you believe to be in such error?

In my study of the Bible, I have never seen a date pinned on the technical age of the earth, nor any reference to the idea that it is flat or the center of the universe.

In fact, quite to the contrary. More than 2,000 years before man recognized that the earth was round, the Bible said in Isaiah 40:22: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth,” or as other translations say, “the globe of the earth” (Douay), “the round earth.” (Moffatt)

Surprised?

Now to speak to the Adam and Eve/evolution thing...please note that most serious scientists (evolutionist and creationists alike), are forced to admit that, although there are numerous theories, the origins of life can never really be proven nor refuted.

It's the "what happened after matter came into existence" question that holds so much contention.

If you were to entertain the view that the world had a creator or designer, clearly the very being who created the universe would also be the one responsible for species that resulted from His design (Adam and Eve), regardless of how you believe these species evolved or developed. Although I personally don't believe in the commonly accepted view of macro-evolution, one could easily (and many do) accept the theory of evolution while holding on to Biblical account in Genesis..albeit, in an allegorical sense.

As for homosexuality being a sin...I must ask, what does the word "sin" mean to you? Do you even believe there to be such a thing? You must realize that according to the Bible, ALL men are sinners...homosexuals, Atheist, Jews, Muslims, and Christians included. It is for this very reason that we are ALL in need of salvation from the consequences of that sin.

The God of the Bible has never been exclusive with whom he deems a sinner, and He has been equally non-exclusive with whom he loves. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

Jay, I would encourage you to honestly look into these things. I'm sure people have hurt and offended you in the name of Christianity, but please don't let this define who God is or isn't to you. Again, people are sinners. There is the only One who will never let you down. The truth is out there, and it's readily available to those who seek it.

Dig on my friend.

Oh come on! The bible is inaccurate on many things n(have you read the bible?) but people tend to ignore these inaccurate things and spend most of their time being hateful with verses that were clearly invented by man, with no God involved at all. By the way, a circle can be flat too, and in the bible there is more evidence that they thought the world was flat than not.

reply to post by Stormwind™


Stormwind, I just want to clarify that my posts up to this point have not been directed at you. Jay stated that was getting annoyed that nobody would respond to his claims of the bible, and I chose to speak to his queries. If you don't feel inclined to read my post(s), that is clearly your prerogative...nobody is forcing you to do as such.

I have to admit, however, I am astonished that you would completely turn a deaf ear to someone's point of view solely based on their sources of truth. What methods, or sources do you use to determine what is and what isn't true? Where does your understanding come from? I believe that we can all learn something from one another...as iron sharpens iron, so does man sharpen man.

I appreciate that you are willing to share your perspective, and have so graciously provided a link to a video that supports your point of view. I would gladly watch it, but as you stated, you are not willing to share ideas with anyone who might hold the belief that the all-time most acclaimed/studied book in the history of the world holds some validity. And we're the closed-minded ones?

reply to post by leo123


This is all part of the overall agenda to eliminate Christianity from society.

Check this out: rikijo.blogspot.com...

reply to post by Afewloosescrews

Hi. With regard to your point.
Your sources are not valid in the same sense as mine. Now by that I mean in this context. Your proo is not proof. Any study of the bible only produces a perspective from the observer on the bible. This is not proof but rather that readers perspective on what they see when they read it. Should I read a passage of the bible I would see something else. That does not make what I say historical fact. Nor you. Some aspects of the bible can be varified via other theological works. Locations some characters but that is about it. The details cannot be varified without assumptions. To comment on this post and this post only by using quotations from scripture as evidence to secure your opinion as proof is not valid. All you do is give a valid opinion based on your assumption of how that particular passage should be interpreted to fit the context of this post. That makes it an opinion not impirical fact. I used recent medical data from valid sources. The reason i had to do this was primarily because of a post from donkey stating that duento the fact that I was gay I should expect to be called faggot queer And other names. Due to the support he initially recieved for this comment i responded to correct this biggoted view. He also agreed that in his opinion it is a sin. Now sadly that stand point is based on his opinion that the bible says it is a sin against god. You agreed. Given that you have only the bible as your evidence that god exists I find it disturbing that with one piece of literature which is not impirical proof of the existance of god people feel it is appropriate to say that I am imorral a faggot a queer and sinfull. There are numerous posts throughout this site. There is a miriad of info. And yet given all that we have no spacecraft that I can go touch. We have no alien I can see. But surely with all thT eveidence here and elsware I would surely be able to do this. But no. But I believe the existance of them non the less. You have one book the bible. Which proves nothing. Is a collection of stories. No more than that evidence wise. Don't you think that if it could be proven beyond a shaddow of a doubt that god and Jesus exist, it would have been done a thousand times over. The bible is a book a story book. It is not a history book. If it was it would be called the history of Jesus. The history of god. Not the holy bible. To use it's scriptures as an argument is the same as using a passage from a news paper. Except the news paper can be varified by asking those written about if it's the truth. The bible does not allow this. And yet despite these obvious failures in it's ability people insist on using it as a rule book by which to live. And because they choose to see it as such they decide to view life through it and comparing their real life to it's passages. When you do that you tend to judge. And when someone does not agree they are a sinner. Fair enough. I am not however a faggot and a queer and I am not part of group of people who cause the start nor the spread of aids. And i will add this I am ONLY a sinner if viewed by you and only using your singular perspective using your book as a reference point which is a story book but not impirical proof and is not a factual history book that can be varified in any great depth.

I love the fact that you have a faith. I have a best friend who s a vicar. Better tha that he is an ex barrister and he is a theological teacher. We have great chats as I am
pagan. And christianity stems from pagan roots. But it is nothing more than a faith. A faith is a point of view. Not facts sorry but it's not.