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Norway Builds the World's Most Humane Prison

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posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Janky Red
They suck

What happened to the good ol days?

If you dumped people into a snake pit they would not want to be arrested again,
I think everyday should be a new punishment, spiders, broomsticks, acid, carcasses,
bloodbaths, Britney Spears "musics".


Link

Amendment 8 - Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.




posted on May, 3 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Music
I will not bee"fine" with him coming out and starting another church burning tour og Norway, but he won't.


That's a purely optimistic statement on your part and is an opinion. Is that a professional opinion or are you guessing? And are you willing to bet someone's life that he won't?



I think he got the message that the Norwegian state/comunity do not tolerate church burning, besides he got to pay a lot of money to the insurance companies. I do not think he can afford to burn another church.


Again, this is an assumption on your part. Criminals aren't known for being driven by thinking about their crimes before-hand and asking themselves "Can I really afford to burn down another church or kill another man?" and then making logical, thought-out decisions afterward.



And by the way, no people got hurt when burned the churches.
Him beeing a murderer is a different story. The leagal system of Norway gave him the maximum penalty. He was put away for as long as possible, one can agree or disagre but that is the law in Norway.


You still don't get it - no one got hurt because HE GOT LUCKY that no one was in the building when he torched it. What happens if he decides to torch another building and this time there's a family in there? What if a child were in there? Would that man not be criminally liable for murder even if his intent wasn't to kill someone but just burn a church?

Of course he would be liable!

Sorry, pal. I don't buy your argument that people in Norway are "wired" differently than people here in America when it comes to committing criminal acts. Criminals are criminals. America is full of examples of paroled criminals returning to a life of crime after their release from prison. Some of those go right back to committing horrible murders.

And treating your criminals like they're at a spa instead of being punished for their crime isn't going to make ONE BIT of difference in a criminal's behavior after they get out of prison. It depends on the person.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 



You still don't get it - no one got hurt because HE GOT LUCKY that no one was in the building when he torched it.


That is not entirely accurate, the Churches burnt down during the Norwegian-Black-Metal-escapades were abandoned.

They were old, historic churches that represented the domination of Christianity over Norwegian culture.

As I previously stated, there was a certain sense of justice fueling the church burnings. A symbol that I staunchly support because it is the entire basis for Black Metal and the Black Metal community.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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I'm too lazy to write anything long so here's some quick points:



1. I liked the "tier system" idea.

2. You don't rehabilitate people with hate.

3. Some people are hopeless, psychopaths don't change in this lifetime, EVER. The systems we have in place cater to psychopathic traits creating "garden variety psychopaths", it's a favorable genetic trait in this system and they're multiplying.

4. As pointed out several times, this would probably only work in Norway and to some degree in other rich and small western countries, at least for the time being.

5. "Justice", or in my eyes - revenge, does nothing to undo what has already happened. Hate begets more hate, the circle has to be broken somehow, preferably before any damage is done. This is the next step in society's evolution. What else would it be? Stoning people or waterboarding them?

6. The scandinavian suicide thing has to do with the mentality and the cold winter months, if you lived here you'd know. Explaining would do no good, you have to experience it for a good part of your life. Still, we're not that close to leading the suicide rate.

7. America is far crazier than Norway in every possible aspect!
America never ceases to amaze me. There's many things I hate about America but I still love it regardless. I feel the same way about my own country so please don't take offense.

8. Dalan, yes christianity robbed us of our pagan heritage, they also destroyed the Sami culture and that's what pisses me off the most because it was quite unique(like countless other cultures destroyed by christianity).

I think that's it..



Originally posted by OrphenFire
Hahaha!

My wife is Norwegian. When your entire country has Vikings for ancestors, who praised one another for the spoils of unprovoked battles, raping of women, and killing of innocent children, of course you are going to reward those in your country who (finger quotations) "BREAK THE LAW".

Okay maybe I am being a little extreme, but seriously, the Vikings saw nothing wrong with mass killing, stealing, (insert every ten commandment here), so why would they punish people who still do things like this? It's their way of being politically correct.

"Gee, Sven... we can't just give these pure-blooded Odinsons a reward for behaving like a natural Viking while the rest of the world sees them as criminals... OR CAN WE???"

The answer?

"Yes."

ETA:
Remind me to buy a plane ticket to Norway where I will promptly commit a crime upon exiting the plane.

[edit on 5/3/2010 by OrphenFire]


This has got to be the most ignorant post on this thread, enough said.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by free_form
reply to post by johnny2127
 


Where'd you get any of this information???

Norway does not have the highest suicide rate of the "industrialized world". Oh wait, you edited your post to say it has one of the highest rates... highest? Not really.

Here you go, guy.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

See where Norway is on those lists?

The united states even has a higher male suicide rate than norway. In fact, the difference in suicide rates per 100,000 people between Norway and the US is negligible.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by free_form]


I never edited any content of my post at all. Are you kidding? I had a grammar error in my first paragraph I corrected.

Regarding the links, you posted links to WHO statistics for suicides not attempted suicides or depression rates. Additionally, a well known problem with WHO statistics is that they do not standardize how these things are measured and reported. So what is called a suicide by one country is not by another. Also, those lists are of all nations, not industrialized nations. Why does it matter? Well many reason. First and foremost, care in industrialized nations is better, so even those that attempt suicide are more likely to survive. Also, life is easier in industrialized nations in general, and hence the motivators for most suicides are as prevalent. But as far as depression goes, Norway has over 50% of its citizens suffering from depression at some point in their lives.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by OrphenFire
When your entire country has Vikings for ancestors, who praised one another for the spoils of unprovoked battles, raping of women, and killing of innocent children, of course you are going to reward those in your country who (finger quotations) "BREAK THE LAW".


This is one of those rare posts that really makes you think twice. It takes a totally different and insightful perspective of things. Thank you Orphen! In the beginning of this thread I was thinking, “This is friggin crazy…” Your post made me stop and consider the conditions of the culture that spawned it – and I think you are spot on with your analysis.

Your reasoning makes sense; a culture that once lauded and rewarded violent acts is now condoning them in a different, more ‘modern’ way. It’s still the same difference though. S&F.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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#. What does one have to do to get in there??



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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I've been following a bit on the Norway reform system for some time, its very positive, something that is needed everywhere. Someone said it wouldn't work in the US people would be trying to get in. Dog eat dog countries and lack of good social policies need to be changed then. Because harsh systems are created by "demons" and we need to chose right from wrong, love from hate, helping from hurting and start to really understand what it takes to progress and pass the test here on earth. The US is sadly lacking in programs has a huge debt due to reliance on the world banksters who are criminals and crooks, large military spending, huge payoffs to banks and the wealthy, and trillions that dissappear into black op programs. Some rethinking maybe.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


To the OP, you honestly "think this is a great thing"? Seriously?!
Let's imagine for a minute that you are a single parent, struggling like crazy to make ends meet, living in a roach infested 1 bedroom apartment with your 5 year old girl. Then one day, your daughter is kidnapped, tortured, raped repeatedly, and beaten to death. The murder is caught, tried, and convicted. Would you really want them to live with these amenities, with a 2 bedroom house to share with their family for visits, while you suffer in your tiny little apartment?

Hey, it's a great thing right?



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 06:19 PM
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Welp, if it actually works for Norway more power to them. Just because it won't work in the US doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I don't sympathise for criminals (depending on why they're locked up), but treating them like absolute crap isn't the right way to go about it. That just makes them even stronger criminals and earns them street cred.

[edit on 3-5-2010 by Whine Flu]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 06:20 PM
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I think crime will go down on the streets but people inside will be committing more offences just to stay in .I mean I dont agree with it if you commit a crime you should be punished not cuddled that puts out the message that it might be ok to commit a crime no its wrong .



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Misoir
 


An interesting experiment. if it works or not is up in the air.

2nd line



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 08:54 PM
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Dagbladet -Sju av ti innsatte i Halden er utlendinger

The link is in Norwegian but it basically says that 7/10 are foreigners that after their sentance is being deported out of the country. Which for them is somewhat of a failure.

Although they do hope that as the population of criminal foreigners go down the Norwegian population will go up so they can use the facility for the purpose it was built for.

So there, I'm sure you're all clever enough to find a way of reading the story if you really want to.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm thinking about moving to Norway to do all the stuff I've always wanted to do.

Some examples:



  • Actually shoot at someone over road rage.


  • Light something on fire during a major protest.


  • Assault someone who took my parking spot.



Etc... as you can imagine, the list goes on...



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 12:38 AM
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What I find interesting is that across the vastly different political/ideological spectrum represented on this board we all seem to agree on one thing:
"Those who commit non-violent 'lesser' crimes should almost always be treated and housed differently by the criminal justice system than those who commit more heinous acts".
I personally think this would be supported by 90%+ of the American populace, (which these days is probably a higher % of people in America than would even agree on the color red or what is considered nice weather).
So the question is what keeps the aforementioned from being instituted?



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 01:04 AM
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no. no. no. (palm to face)

this is not how it is done. rehab? yeah? just how does one rehab pedophiles and serial killers? oh wait. can't be done.

admittedly, many crimes and the law required to commit them are a joke. the ones that are not call for blood.

i keep hearing all this jive about how love conquers all, and that all they really need is a group hug. you guys going on about love ever realize how much trouble it causes? how many people are in prison for killing someone they loved? love makes people insane. we have all seen it. (or does that require a link?)

lets not gussy it up with pretty brands. love can be a cruel experience. it is a double edged sword, that some human beings are incapable of wielding.

the parasite loves it's host.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by Counttrarian
 


Apparently you dont know the US penal system. Depending on crimes, criminals are put in difference 'security' level prisons. Violent and serious crimes are put in maximum security. Minimal security prisons are pretty laid back comparatively.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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I see a lot of knee-jerk reactions to this thread whish is not surprising here on ATS these days, but Prison Reform is not quite as black and white and simple as some here suggest.

I work as a Registered Nurse (NHS) within the UK Criminal Justice System in a Catagory B Prison cluster (3 prisons), covering most types of criminal.

Within the Prison system, there are criminals of ALL types of crime - From thieves, drug addicts, fraudsters to armed robbers, sex-offenders, serial killers, murderers and terrorists. One thing that is common to virtually all of them is that they will or do have mental health problems - 97% do/will have in the UK system.

To de-humanize someone in this day and age is just downright barbaric and shows how low that country has become. I have found that by showing a human face along with humane living conditions, a quality of life as best as can be under the restraints of 'four walls' is the best approach. It reduces tensions, which can be costly to the taxpayer (ie: riots), it makes it a safer working environment and it does encourage dialogue between Staff and Inmate. It also encourages inmates to go on rehabilitation programs.

I have personally found that my working environment is safer than working on A&E or a hospital ward. This in my opinion is due to the humanity we show our inmates. I am not there to judges the inmates nor are the Prison Officers, the inmates have already been judged. The staff have a 'duty of care' and treating them humanely and fairly is a part of that duty.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:02 AM
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WOW talk about vacation resort, i dont even have a flat screen or mini fridge. Well at least now i know where to go to commit my crimes!

P.S. ill send this to lil waynes iphone i think he like



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by anonymousproxy
 


False, I came from an abusive home. I am not nor have I ever raped, murdered, or molested a child. Never have I committed a felony nor have I lived in the prison system.

People as adults make choices; we are responsible for our own choices. It is no one else’s fault but my own if I commit a crime.

Raist

I believe everyone is a product of their environment and experience. Sometimes people in a bad situation will learn from it and be the opposite of their previous environment. Other times they will absorb the bad influence from their situation. That said, I believe their environment and experience leads them to make the decision to become abusive after abuse- or even to help prevent abuse/ abstain from being abusive.
By this line of thinking... It seems to make good sense to make prisons into a better environment in hopes of actually rehabilitating those who would be open to it.



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