Scholarly Squad Debunks Biblical 'Discoveries'

Originally posted by makinho21

Originally posted by pablos
reply to post by -Blackout-

 

I cannot agree more. I am over the "science" of people finding exactly what they are looking for right away. It just doesn't seem to work that way with any other field of archaeology. Take a paleontologist. They don't just go and look for a tyrannosaur and find one. Often they look for a tyrannosaur and find a rare plant fossil, or a bird or even nothing. It would be much more believable if this were the case. If they went looking for ancient stone ruins and stumbled onto Noah's Ark it might have some credence. It is all such a shame really, with what that kind of research money could help discover in that field. Even in biblical archaeology. The art itself does have merit at least to help discover better what life was like at the time, but has sadly become duplicit in the bigger con.

Great write up cheers._javascript:icon('

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I studied paleontology this year, and it's usually even more obscure than that, especially in reference to dinos.
You may find a random leg bone, some teeth, and maybe part of a vertebrae...and then the real work begins.
Only in "biblical archeology" (what a farce to begin with) does the process work backwards:"let's go looking for the ark...Aha! Here it is!"

and the worst part is many many people take these frauds seriously.




[edit on 2-5-2010 by makinho21]

Ironically in science the same thing happens! Need I point to Piltdown Man? He lasted for 40 years and was in the science books! Then it was just a hoax. Aha, just kidding! Also what are you going to do with a leg bone, a piece of a jaw and a tooth? You really think you can figure out what that thing looked like? Doubt it, but you got one hell of a mental capacity to go through all that building and work just to figure out what you thought it would look like and figure out what sex it was.

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by -Blackout-

Originally posted by AndersonLee
Evidence is over rated .

Evidence of what? I have not seen any evidence that the Ark was found.

We'll never find it. Only gullible religious fanatics will believe in stuff like this.

And only people who don't want to believe the Ark is real will not believe even if it was found. You can't find what you don't want to see.

Funny since I do not want to believe in cancer but...

Well, you can see where I am going with that.

Funny because that's not the context in which I was referring to. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Please pay attention next time.

Huh? I never said it was not there because I could not see it? Your response does not even make sense. You said people have trouble finding things THEY DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE IN. I said I DO NOT WANT to believe in Cancer but there it is. I never said anything about not being able to see it so I doubted it.

Hi all nice post
I find it hard to understand why religious groups who have always had a burning you to death for the devils work view of science all through history are now using it to prove there biblical myths.
If noah's ark is real it is as said by other posts long gone on the other hand i do think there was a great flood or tsunami along time ago and if any giant boat is discovered it would only strengthen my belief that there was a great flood and not that noah built it to save 2 of every animal.

brilliant post brilliant site

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Conclusion
It is also nice to see the sheep baaaaing in with their uniformed voices of conformity praising the efforts of narrow minded scholars who seem to be presenting themselves as Judge, Juror and Information Minister on all things.

Science does not know its debt to imagination. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

My, my...a group of philosophers disparaging the veracity of science. And some actually come out of the last century!

Emerson...what else does he have to say?

Emerson discounted Biblical miracles and proclaimed that, while Jesus was a great man, he was not God: historical Christianity, he said, had turned Jesus into a "demigod, as the Orientals or the Greeks would describe Osiris or Apollo" en.wikipedia.org...

So, when these free thinkers also call down the tenets of Christianity...are they still quotable?

The thing to keep in mind here is that Emerson was a preacher.... He eventually left the main stream church and founded the universalist church. Then he left religion altogether.

Emerson believed mostly in the tenants of self-reliance and the advice that one should be wary of anyone who is trying to convince you of anything.

reply to post by people=oooo


I for one would not trust any Scientist or Acedemic at this point. It would only give them time to match their findings to todays bible. The ark itself was spoken of in different cultures that predate the Hebrew bible and Torah...

If the arc was found then nobody (the public) would be allowed near it for independent study. (Wow that seems to be happening right now) They would not be able to handle the public outcry if the true age was determined to be older than 5000 years. History would need to be rewritten, and they sure aren't going to do that.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

If you will forgive, my point had more to do with Google and cut/paste to bolster an Idiocratic dissing of Science, than it had to do with Emerson.

Speaking generally (ie, not at you in particular), you wanna hit me with a well-reasoned argument about the inadequacies of Scientific reasoning, then do so. But you cherry-pick quotations that back up your opinion without considering the full nature of the author's thesis on life...do so at your peril.

The question is did these reseachers - no matter their background or reason for searching - actually find anything? The mainstream scientists can unfairly debunk them from afar, but did these explorers just stage a hoax, or did they find something tangible and worth looking into further? Something that may not in fact be the "ark," but something of significance nonetheless? If they did find a wooden structure on that mountain, then it is a true discovery, and the mainstream debunkers need to tip their cap to that even if it's been misidentified.

I don't understand why anyone questions the bible. After all, we have..
- talking snakes and talking donkeys
- Sheppard staffs which turn into snakes and eat other snakes
- people living inside of great fish
- Entire biosphere of the planet stuffed inside a boat and floating above the highest mountains.
- Voices proceeding from burning bushes.
- People leveling great cities with the mere blow of a trumpet.
- People commanding the sun to stay still.
- Virgin births
- Creation of universe in 7 days
- women being made from mens ribs
- Mere bite of a fruit causing reversal of all ontological process, and yielding thorns, thistle, labor pains in animals.
- etc, etc...I am just getting started!

Why would ANYONE in their right mind question the bible? Get with the program and be logical you skeptics!

[edit on 3-5-2010 by whatsup]

Originally posted by whatsup
I don't understand why anyone questions the bible. After all, we have..
- talking snakes and talking donkeys
- Sheppard staffs which turn into snakes and eat other snakes
- people living inside of great fish
- Entire biosphere of the planet stuffed inside a boat and floating above the highest mountains.
- Voices proceeding from burning bushes.
- People leveling great cities with the mere blow of a trumpet.
- People commanding the sun to stay still.
- Virgin births
- Creation of universe in 7 days
.
.etc. etc

Why would ANYONE in their right mind question the bible? Get with the program and be logical you non believers.

-Which all goes to the need for Biblical Archaeology (or something that likes to think it is) to find concrete evidence of the veracity of the Scriptures...like an Ark.

I find it funny how people confuse religious texts for historical records. Finding a city that's mentioned in the bible doesn't make the whole bible true.
There's mare proof that Spiderman is real than the bible. I've been to New York City, that's real so, Spiderman must be real too. Right?

I'm from Utah so I grew up surrounded by Mormons. The LDS Church keeps trying to tie every archeological find in South America to the Book of Mormon despite there being no actual connection. Here's some info...

Originally posted by g146541
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many arks have been found in say the last 50 years?
It seems Noah was not a Captain but an Admiral!

I'm more interested in the way a wooden vessel could hold 2 of every single living animal on the planet and the food and water required to sustain them.
In reality this vessel would have to be much bigger and much more advanced than any sea-faring vessel we have ever created in our known modern history.
Logic dictates to me if the ark was real it was either a space ship or it was a DNA bank.

I just had a thought -

Could the reason "amateurs" go out and look for things have anything to do with the scholarly community (or its publishers) not allowing ordinary people, not associated with universities for instance, NO ACCESS to much of modern research - unless of course they can afford to pay many 100s of ££ every year for journals.

Working on and off for many years as an unaffiliated researcher, it is very hard to get access to recent scholarly texts in many fields.

Originally posted by Shane
Did you ever hear of Heinrich Schliemann? Went out and found exactly what he was looking for. Didn't he? The location inwhich the City of Troy would be located. I suspect he may even have found Troy itself, although their is valid debate with evidence to support it that he only found it's location. Nonetheless, he did find exactly what he was looking for.

Except for the fact that he was told where to look by the guy that really did find the spot, Frank Calvert, and Schliemann only got the credit because he had the money to spend excavating.

If you would read your own references, you would have known that you were misrepresenting the truth so that you could pretend that people actually go out and "find what they're looking for."

Why do you need to make this claim? Do you think it syupports these yahoos that see Noah's Ark behind every rock in an aerial photo?

Harte

Oh so many comments to offer, and still awaiting someone to debunk something with evidence of some substance. Oh Well.......

Originally posted by fbipeeper
So what the OP is saying is that it's not right to formulate a theory, then search out evidence to support or discount the theory.

I mean... look at the global warming people... They faked SO SO much, and it's about money and control.

So, first, I agree 100% with your opinion.

I would offer this though, why this is different from the Global Warming Scam.

A fellow named Morris Strong, has worked nonstop behind the scenes and upon the Podium for the United Nations to have a Taxation Scheme that will be implemented on a Global Scale so that the U.N. would not be under the thumb of the American's and the Hefty Amount they support this league of dictators with.

His scheme involved finding something everyone would be concerned with and manipulated the science to his own ends, so that people/entities like the High Preist of Gia, (aka Al Gore), and his concubines, (aka David Suzuki to name one), would use their facetime to propogate this lie inorder to force the G8 into accepting a thing called the Kyoto Accords.

This would give all of the "Tax" to U.N. NGO's under the bannership Eco something, to collect, and redistributed as they see fit.

It is a Taxation, without representation Scheme that is above and beyond what anyone here (In the Noah Ark Matter) is planning or can hope to achieve. Penny Larceny, compared to Grand Theft.



Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane
A fellow named Morris Strong...

That would be, I think, Maurice Strong.

Originally posted by g146541
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many arks have been found in say the last 50 years?
It seems Noah was not a Captain but an Admiral!

Well this is misleading due to the number of claims. It has nothing to do with the locations.

From my humble opinion, I believe there have only been two locations that have been discussed.

The First, obviously is being discussed here, and it is located somewhere around 4000' up Mt Ararat, according to many who have claimed to have visited it, as well as legend and lore both in Religous texts as well as "Native" stories.

There are many posts in ATS that have discussed the Anomoly on Mt Ararat, and photos which seemingly point to something that is becoming visible.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8b92047b25c8.jpg[/atsimg]Mount Ararat Anomoly

Todate, there is nothing "CONCRETE" that has been presented which can conclusively prove this claim, nor do I expect even if there was, it would be accepted.

The Second is located within the Mountains in Iran on Mount Suleiman, and here, there have been pieces brought out for examination, although the "Wood" is now in a pertified state, according to the finders.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7460fe5bd1ad.jpg[/atsimg]Mt Suleiman Find and Pertified closeup

This, like the first location, has failed to conclusively settle the matter one way or the other.

But yes, I expect over 50 claims have been made over the last century, but it is only two locations being discussed.

I trust this assists in answering your question.

I'll have another post coming that may assist in answering your question in more detail.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Son of Will


My friend. A long time ago, I was told of a saying that has proved to have been an accurate assessment of things like this.

"People speak, because they have a mouth".

I found nothing that debunked the current claim of Noah's Ark being found on Mt Ararat.

I saw claims that ensures these fellows can not be trusted, since they partook in schemes of their own, which it appears they failed to profit upon during their attempt.

Now, we are to take their word for it?

Hardly.

Thank's for asking though.

Ciao

Shane

First, I would like to apologize to all for every mentioning Troy. Obviously it was a bad example, for the reasons noted.

Originally posted by Raud
Hmm...you know what that post of yours got me thinking of?
"I am thy shepard, you are my herd" or "Lamb of God".
The "baaaaing" is what I hear on those rare (dreaded) occasions when I visit church.

Thought control (=organized religion...eeh, maybe?)

Narrow minded scholars are way better than those who blame and explain everything by some book that is more or less proven inaccurate.

Geez, talk about shooting oneself in the foot!

Well.

Science is a Religion. No different from anyother Religious Sect or Cult.

The Same rules apply.

So since you have been the cheaky one so far, I place this back at your feet to address.

You noted...."by some book that is more or less proven inaccurate. "

WHERE IS THE FN EVIDENCE YOU BASE THIS ASSUMPTION UPON?????

What is the Topic?

Where's this evidence???

Hello.


Look, EVERYONE.

I do not believe these Chinese fellows found anything on Mt Ararat.



Here's a Topic that claims "Scholarly Squad Debunks Biblical 'Discoveries'".

The Scholars are Failed Conmen, and the best they offer today is acknowledging their failure, and attempted embezzlement, by suggesting these Chinese fellows are doing the same. They may even be even making more money doing this, than their previous scam.

Hey. BUYER BEWARE.

But as for this debunking, I have seen NONE.

And as for your own remarks, I await all of this evidence you have Raud.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Harte
Why do you need to make this claim? Do you think it syupports these yahoos that see Noah's Ark behind every rock in an aerial photo?

Harte

My good friend. How are you today. Nice to see you still here. I missed our discussions, and I trust you have as well.

I indicated just previous to this, of my apology for every mentioning Troy. Yes, he was acknowledge or obtained the credit for doing so, but clearly "other's" where involved and frankly did more to establish the premise than he did. It was a bad example to use, to attempt to present someone seeking what they longed to find, and finding it. End of that I trust.

And I also just noted I do not believe these Chinese fellows found anything on Ararat. I would also use a term like "Yahese" or "Yahwong" to describe these fellows. Not Yahoo.

My problem Harte is simple. Where's this debunking evidence. It is always claimed, but never presented and frankly I am sick and tired of nothing being offered other than opinion and heresay. I want to see this debunking evidence offered by those who seemingly suggest these things are not true.

The Title, as I have noted 4 or 5 times so far is Scholarly Squad Debunks Biblical 'Discoveries', and to date, NOTHING has been offered except from Self Confessed Conmen.

It's a pity, that this is the best intelligence has to offer in regards to this subject.

And since I like you, as you know I do, I will "DEBUNK" this Chinese Claim so at least there is some Evidence offered to provide valid discussion and consideration on this subject.

DEBUNKING 101

Recently some "Fellows" from China have made a claim of discovering Noah's Ark on Mt Ararat, and it appears, they too have fallen for a simple trap enployed by Armenians over the centuries.

Genesis 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Here is the Origin of the Problem. Ararat

780 'Ararat ar-aw-rat' of foreign origin; Ararat (or rather Armenia):--Ararat, Armenia.

When the Original Texts had been Organized, and once it was presented that Ararat meant Armenia directly, it was just taken for "Gospel" and became the New Name applied to the Volcano Agri Dagi, (today's Mt Ararat), which stands alone on the Armenian Plains. Strangely, it wasn;t until around the 1200's that the name changed to Mt Ararat.

The second consideration is the balance of the line, "upon the Mountains of Ararat", which is in stark contrast to that lonely mountain in Turkey.

What else can we see in the Scriptures?

Genesis 8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

Well the very next verse indicates yet again, "were the tops pf the "mountains" seen. Again, more than one Mountain Top is now visible.

So we must look somewhere else, if we truely intend on finding anything associated with Noah and his Ark.

Is there anything else we can consider?

Genesis 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

I chose to keep this all together, to ensure we are speaking about Noah and his family, but wish to look at Genesis 11:2 directly.

They Journeyed from the East and found the Plain of Shinar.

Well, for these Chinese Fellows to have found the Ark on Turkey's Mt Ararat, Noah and his decendants would have "Journeyed from the West, to find the plain of Shinar".

So we find two things, Biblically Speaking, which alone dismiss the claim these Chinese Fellows wish to make.

It only took 5 Verses from 1 (one) book of the Bible to demostrate this.

Now, I personally believe the story of Noah and the Ark is a TRUE Event.
I believe we may someday find some evidence to support this belief I have. I do not have any belief that this will be found on Ararat, since it is clearly not where the Ark came to rest.

Did an expedition to Iran find the Ark recently? While I would like to think so, but I think the find was just formation of rock, apposed to actual pertified Ark Remains.

But I would most certainly expect the Iranian Landscape and the Elborz Mountain Range is the area that needs to be investigated, apposed to wasting time in Turkey, looking for something on a mole hill, apposed to Mountains.

Now was that DEBUNKING this Chinese claim with some evidence?

Certainly more Evidence than has been even suggested todate.

This is at least what I would expect when some Scholar spews intellectual thoughts to debunk something.

Not, Hey, I am a failed conman who tried to scam the world with fake claims of finding something that I claimed to be there. To many claims from someone I wouldn;t trust as far as I could throw him.

Anyway, have a good day/evening my friend. I always appreciate your contributions, although they always seemingly are picking at My Faults

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I have other names that come to mind when discussing this charater and Morris vs Maurice Strong is spliting hairs, isn't it? Isn't Morris short for Maurice? I thought it was.

Anyways, incase there are any who wish to find out who this cracker is, please look at this little National Review Piece from 1997.

International man of Mystery, Who is Maurice Strong?

And sadly yes, He is also a Canadian.

Ciao

Shane