English Defence League take over mosque roof!

reply to post by stumason



I personally think that Bob started it with his "strange question"

"How many use the rubbers" or "how many of you use rubbers" and then changes it to "how many of you's are robbers"

They go over pissed off, obviously and Bob lays his hands on them and then pushes the guy.... then intimidates them by saying there are more of us than there are of you... as I said on the other thread, spitting on the guy was wrong but it was already gonna kick off before that...


Watch the start, where BOB is shouting over to the guys.... he know what he's doing... and even if he isn't asking about Rubbers why is he asking if they're Robbers?



[edit on 6/5/10 by blupblup]

reply to post by blupblup


It is unclear what was said, I think. You say it's "how many of you'se are robbers", whereas others say its "how many of us are there?". Not being from that neck of the woods, the accent is tricky for me.

Either way, there is obviously more to that video that it appears. The asian lads were clearly the more aggressive party though and they were looking for a fight. The BNP grunts started by backing away and trying to get the Asian guys out of their face, when the lad snapped and spat.

It's pretty clear cut to be honest. Whatever someone says to you, you have no right to respond with violence. Spitting is common assault. It will be hard, no matter what was said, to defend such action.

Originally posted by stumason


It is unclear what was said, I think. You say it's "how many of you'se are robbers", whereas others say its "how many of us are there?". Not being from that neck of the woods, the accent is tricky for me.

Come on man.... don't be silly... It's obvious.... just watch and listen several times... it's either Robbers or Rubbers, there's no two ways about it.
So that question is kinda odd don't you think?
And "I can't make out the accent" doesn't cut it... just listen, over and over and there's no denying it's either rubbers or robbers and both comments are offensive.

It's pretty clear cut to be honest. Whatever someone says to you, you have no right to respond with violence. Spitting is common assault. It will be hard, no matter what was said, to defend such action.

No I agree... and he should not have spat on him, not at all.... but I think if If you've been riled up and offended then it's hard to control your emotions.
As I said, Bob had already laid hands on him and pushed the guy before any of that...

They were both in the wrong but I think to deny that something is being said at the start of that video is purely ignorant and dishonest.

reply to post by stumason


He says 'How many is there of us?'.
In other words 'guys there's more of us than you - so think on'

i've done martial arts for a few years and one thing i'm quite good at studying is body language. The fast paced walk of the asians suggests confrontation, whereas the BNP guy is trying to recover some defense by psychologically creating unease in the asians.

Basically the BNP looks like he doesn't want trouble. The puffed out chests, the 'what?' attitude of the asians, the circling intimidation and the spitting all suggest to me that the asians wanted trouble.

Also notice the BNP guy places his hand on the lads chest to move him, which is not assault, merely moving getting his own body space back.

In my eyes, despite my dislike for the BNP, the asians deserved it.

reply to post by blupblup


No wrong.

'How many is there of us'

He even touches his own chest. To suggest that he's referring to himself. Sorry but this is a webiste for denying ignorance.

I have a GOOD ear for accents and a good eye for body language.

reply to post by mr-lizard




Hmmmm I disagree.... i don't think he's saying that... although I may be wrong and I'm not going to proclaim I am 100% beyond doubt right about it but to me, he's clearly saying something offensive.... you're not gonna get all pissed off and confront someone just for asking how may of us are there or whatever...


If you entice, coax, goad or just out-right offend someone into confronting you, that doesn't mean you're in the right just because you got spat on?

I now the guy shouldn't have spat on him, I'm not excusing him, but people are excusing the BNP guys and saying that all the animosity and all the aggression came form the Asian guys and that is clearly not true.

Just watch the footage several times.



ETA


Just reading on other forums and news sites and they're all saying he called them Robbers so I dunno man.... I'm gonna have to go with my ears on this one.

It's a disgusting act to spit on someone. However, is it more disgusting to go up to a group of people and ask them if they're 'robbers' simply because of the colour of their skin? Bailey incites them, tells them to f off, throws the first punch and is there battering a fallen man while one of his cronies pins him down. The BNP are an abhorrence.

Mr Bailey provokes the group of lads by accusing them of being 'robbers', he then pushes one of the youths and patronizes them. They would already have issues with Mr Baileys presence as he is clearly a racist so, though spitting is generally a deplorable act, it was not done without cause. I have no idea why Mr Bailey would deserve any sympathy at all in this situation. He incited the situation.

www.metro.co.uk...


[edit on 6/5/10 by blupblup]

Well trust me.

My ears are my job (i work in sound engineering, producing and mixing and Dj'ing - I need to be able to hear the smallest changes in frequencies and pitch).

The video starts just after something is said. BUT the BNP guy points to himself and says 'how many is there of us'.

I've got a good ear for accents too. Don't let what you want hear override what is actually said.

reply to post by mr-lizard




Awesome... so you must be right?

If I were you i'd get your ears checked out mate... I'm sorry but he does NOT say what you're saying he does... he just doesn't.


I'm not gonna argue about it with a man who clearly has the best ears on ATS... but I know what I hear as do many others online at the moment, that's why most people on news forums and others are saying "why did he ask if they were robbers" and similar things.

I ain't gonna argue but we'll just have to agree to disagree...

Well, after listening to it several times I'm of the opinion that the BNP guy says 'How many is there of us'.

Regardless, anyone spat at me I'd kick the crap out of them.

It is the biggest insult possible, it's degrading and humiliating.

I did it once to someone deliberately tp provoke a reaction, the guy I did it to was a time served peadophile and had moved in next door to me.
Lot's of young children lived and played in my street.
I didn't want him to live in my street.
He dosn't now.

reply to post by blupblup


Please don't insult me or mock me.

All i'm saying is: Despite what i want to hear (any excuse to give the BNP a bashing) - he genuinly does say 'how many is there of us?'

In this case, you are wrong. I can't be arsed arguing with you though.

But i will say this:

IF he is calling them robbers, why would he point to himself?

Well I've just had it on about 50 times


I guess he could be saying either....and saying that he is def NOT saying "how many is there of us" was a little OTT so I apologise to those that I have said are wrong .... But I still think it's hard to tell and to be 100% conclusive/definitive is pretty tough.


I would still like to know what led to him shouting (whatever it is) at the Asian guys... and exactly what happened before.

Reminds me of the Epic Beard Man video where we join half way through and don't really know what was the catalyst for the confrontation.... we have people who hailed him a hero and said he was right and people who said it was racially motivated.

It's clear as it's the BNP we're talking about that it's racially motivated but I would just like to know what exactly was said and why It had to come to Spitting and violence?

reply to post by blupblup


Me too - i've watched it a good few times.

Don't get me wrong, violence, spitting, swearing, scuffling, kicking - none of it is good.

But i'd much rather trust my own ears, than the words of a newspaper with an agenda.

The BNP could have easily said something before the start of the video, but anything on screen... Well no doubt you'll probably mock me, but i've done transcripts before and i consider myself quite good at them and i'm sticking to my guns.

Peace

reply to post by mr-lizard



Na man, It's all good... I wont mock ya.

I apologise mate

My sarcasm and dry wit can sometimes come across as rude and arrogant and that certainly wasn't how I intended it and didn't mean to disrespect or mock you or your profession.

I always hold my hands up and apologise when I'm wrong.

I'm still unsure about what he actually says and It sounds almost intentionally ambiguous... Hmmm.

Anyway, No worries.

Peace

reply to post by blupblup


No worries friend, i have the same problem - i sometimes say light hearted things and they get taken out of context.

--

On topic: The whole things is a disgrace really, but such is life.

The guy with the BNP who comes up behind them just as the spitting incident occurs and then tries to calm it down and get's them to follow them away from the scene must be thinking 'what bloody chance have we got of getting elected with idiot's like this?'

Any prospective Member Of Parlimanent should have enough nous to spot this possible scenario well in advance of it occuring and getting the hell out of it.

One thing is clear that the BNP started it.

If the BNP were canvassing around my area and looked at me and my mates and said with a cheeky tone 'How many is there of us', it would only take 5 secs for that prick to get sorrounded by a thousand black and asian youths.

It's like KKK members going to a black area and saying to the ghetto boys 'How many is there of us'.Well there won't be none left after they get all shotup.

And the funny thing is Bob has been in the Royal navy for 14 years? I wonder what kind of training do they provide for someone whose done 14 years still struggled to deal with 3 kids outnumbering them with a 3:1 ratio?

reply to post by Freeborn




The thing is that apparently this trouble had been going on for some time before this incident happened.... Nick Griffin departed the scene after receiving abuse and having things thrown at him... So If the police were around and there were also many people on the street and someone filming it... why did it even have a chance to get to that?

Someone mentioned Prescott and the Egging thing earlier... and I don't think this is quite the same... yeah the guy snapped after being spat on, as would anyone... but the fact that there were far more of the BNP guys and that 2 of them were on the biggest Asian guy kicking and punching him kinda says it all... I can't imagine Milliband and Mandy Battering a load of hoodies who are there abusing them.

There are several reports and versions floating around... From those kids who fought with the BNP, riding their bikes after Nick Griffin's car and then getting insulted by the BNP in the footage..... to another one where a shopkeeper says It was white yobs who were throwing fruit and stuff at the BNP and they snapped and targeted these Asian kids..... to The BNP were just going about their business and loads of people were abusing them and following them and these Asian lads were hurling abuse and were intimidating them and then it kicked off....

If it was that busy and that many people were there, I'm sure there will be other footage and other eye-witness accounts... we'll wait and see I guess.

The whole situation is a disgrace really.

reply to post by blupblup


Well my friend, if there were that many witnesses and if the ATS membership is anything to go by then one thing is certain, there will be numerous interpretations of what actually happened and most versions of events will be tainted by the individuals bias.

I suspect we will never get 'the truth'.

reply to post by merkava


Personally i think he gave those little punks a good kicking. Too many kids with the whole 'gangland' attitude.

The biggest trouble makers in my area are asian kids. This is not a judgement, merely an observation.

Shop keeper battered to death by asians.

Man stabbed by asians.

Personally, if asian and black kids keep thinking they are from the 'ghetto' , then they should go and find a real ghetto and not wreck our streets with their 'hey blud' attitudes.