"Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem."

Ronald Reagan

Here we have had probably the greatest president willing to tell it like it is.
He spoke with his own words, writing his own speaches (unlike president of today).

"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."

Besides Jefferson, I cannot think of any other President who spoke as such, about their own government.

"Government is the people's business and every man, woman and child becomes a shareholder with the first penny of tax paid."

Does everyone understand what he is implying? That we the people are in control of the government, not the other way around.

And a quote for those who recall his oddball comments;
"I've often wondered, what if all of us in the world discovered that we were threatened by a greater power from outer space from another planet--wouldn't we all of a sudden find that we didn't have any differences between us at all?"

Reagan is essentially the guy who said, "Can't we all just get along?", but not in those exact words.

So why were there so many attempts on his life, what were "they" trying to prevent or hide. We will never know, or will we...

Some of you are probably wondering, what is he typing about, what is this thread leading to. Well if any of you have read the numerous threads of mine it may be more clear. For those who have not, take another glance at my avatar, it may dawn on you eventually.

Our government is getting out of control, if it isn't someone is doing a great job of making us think it is. Smear campaigns, propaganda, mis and dis information. Who is it for, the American people, our "enemies"?

Some time back there was a saying going around, "Take back ATS" and other nonsence, well what about TAKE BACK AMERICA!
Or even take back the world.

It seems the people have been manipulated by fear, or maybe this quote would say it better;

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

- Samuel Adams, debates of 1776

I will let this post close with another quote, as I feel it best describes that
people of today, are no different than yesterday. Besides it just goes so well with the above quote.

"All Experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, when Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed."
--Thomas Jefferson

I am sorry to disagree with you but Reagan was not politician he was an actor and he played the role of politician during his presidential years.

Occurs this is just an opinion.
I did like him as an actor but not as a president.

Thank you for the reply, I respect your opinion.

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,

Jacques- Shakespeare

I don't know why I posted that, exept for it is what popped into my head after reading your post.

Nearly 40 views and only one reply, I do not see how you can disagree with me about the politican thng as I never mentioned politician. I said President aka Commander in Chief. I know the same thing as politics.

Did you understand what I was getting at though, the message?

I know

I am not politician, but I do come from a family that was involve in politics since I can remember and as a child I use to be drag to all kind of political rallies and things, My parents are very much involve in politics to as this time my mother is a city commissioner.

But I will say no more on that.

I guess Reagan passing is very sad and brings the good of what he did during his presidential years.

My husband served in the marines during Reagan years so he was his chief in command for 8 years.

It's hard to reply Advisor. What's to say?

You're right of course, the solution is simple and people should just take responsibility for themselves.

But using your own example of Reagen...

What exactly happened under his bootstrap philosophy?

AIDS. Don't be gay. Problem solved. Did that work?

Crack. Just say no. How's the crack problem today as a result?

Government funded Mental Health facilites. They aint that crazy. They could get jobs if they wanted to. Closed them all and created a homeless epidemic among the mentally ill.

And don't get me started on gun control. I fear the whack jobs you want to empower (meaning us) far more than the government.

Advisor, you're right on. Thanks for that great post. Too bad not every president, or every leader of every nation is like Reagan was. The world would be a much less threatening place, but that's just not how it all works I guess. God bestows on us people like him only rarely. That's why he was so great, and he did great things.

I hope and pray we take back our nation. We need a cleansing and renewal of our government. Too bad the founding fathers never gave us a reset button along with the Constitution. But in essence, we need to correct some elements that have gotten too big and too powerful for their own good. The people aren't told the truth about what the gov is doing most of the time. And so HOW in the WORLD can the people be said to be running our nation? We pay our taxes, but we our told what's best for us, instead of ourselves telling what's best for us, and therefore the government because we are the shareholders. The gov has become disconnected, and therefore, a separate entity from the American people. Not completely yet I don't think, but very close, and there are no signs to show that the break won't be finished. I hope and pray, but what comes about, comes about, and God's will will be done. And no matter what happens to this country, the greater good will still win with Him. Fight, defend, pray for, and be thankful for this nation. It will not last forever, so don't take it for granted.

Yea we had Iran-Contra and the AIDS fiasco, and every generation has it's own disease to contend with and your not going to legislate morality into humanity...not now, not here, not ever.

Would you all rather had a continuation of the Cold War were drop, tuck and cover is the national motto?

Did the wall fall and so we could berate a dead President?

Reagan was a great man and President,
read his bio's before boiling in your own stew of hypocrisy.

Let's win one for the Gipper!

www.whitehouse.org...
----------------------------------------------
FORMER SOVIET PRESIDENT MIKHAIL GORBACHEV

"I view Reagan as a great president," said Gorbachev, adding that his dialogue with Reagan "kick-started the process which ultimately put an end to the Cold War".

"I do not know how other statesmen would act in his place at the time. Reagan, who was considered ultra-conservative, dared those steps and that was his strength."

FORMER GERMAN CHANCELLOR HELMUT KOHL

Kohl stood with Reagan as he made a historic Cold War appeal at the Berlin Wall.

"His consistent championing of freedom contributed decisively to overcoming the division of Europe and Germany. We Germans have much to thank Ronald Reagan for."

FORMER PRIME MINISTER MARGARET THATCHER

"He will be missed, not only by those who knew him and not only by the nation that he served so proudly and loved so deeply, but also by millions of men and women who live in freedom today because of the policies he pursued.

"Ronald Reagan had a higher claim than any other leader to have won the Cold War for liberty, and he did it without a shot being fired."

World pays tribute to Reagan:
www.swissinfo.org...


[edit on 6-6-2004 by Regenmacher]

I agree wit you ADVISOR. Reagan was a great presdient! And this nation isnt getting any better. Though a lot disagree with what he has done.

I didn't take the point of Advisor's thread to be about Reagen, but rather use him as an example....which I did in kind.

So before this becomes yet another "Go Grandpa Go" thread.... any thoughts on the issue of Individual Responsibility versus Big Government, because I thought that's what this is about.

IMO the Big Government debate goes beyond partisanship kind of like Advisor was saying. The Dems have their own brand as do Republicans...including uber-deficit Reagen.

While I agree some big, lumbering government sounds just yucky, I defer to the alternative. Privatization of everything, with a weak government being run by and for Corporate interests.

See the people don't get to take over outside this little fantasy discussion we're having. That's never going to happen. Corporations will...with sweat shops and monopolies galore. Kind of makes the necessary evil of government regulations not so bad, huh?

Moderation in all things. Including government bashing. You don't know how good you have it, or how bad it could be.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Ronald Reagan

Howdy Pilgrim. They call me The Duke!

Here we have had probably the greatest president willing to tell it like it is.
He spoke with his own words, writing his own speeches (unlike president of today).

"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."

I think Government is a lot like a babies 'Diaper'. It sucks up all the sh*t it comes in contact with & after too long it Stinks to High Hell and Really Needs to be Thrown Out!!

Besides Jefferson, I cannot think of any other President who spoke as such, about their own government.

"Government is the people's business and every man, woman and child becomes a shareholder with the first penny of tax paid."

Does everyone understand what he is implying? That we the people are in control of the government, not the other way around.

While I do agree with you Advisor to some degree, that isn't going to solve the problem either IMO.

People are HELPLESS MORONS in general, so they equate 'Government working for them' as 'Government doing everything for them'. You can see how extremely similar those two statements are, and in a way they are the same and both will work out the same eventually too. The reason is because 'Words' are only 'Symbols' and 'Symbols' can mean Anything. I'll Demonstrate:

BLACK
WHITE
'This Statement Is False.'

So, as you see, 'Symbols' can even mean the opposite of what it 'Represents'. This works very much the same as 'Government' too. What is Government?
It's a bunch of People in the Act of Governing.
Well, 'Govern' means:
1. To make and administer the public policy and affairs of;
2. To control the speed or magnitude of;
3. To control the actions or behavior of;
So, It's People in the Act of Controlling, People.

Why do People need to be Controlled?
Well, in basic terms because they are HELPLESS MORONS, which I've already stated. Who, because they can't solve problems for themselves, tell the 'Government' solve them. But Wait! Government is People, right!?!? So that means MORONS CONTROLLING MORONS!!

Oh, but you say that's why we 'Elect' the least Moronic to Lead the rest of the Foolish. Well, I say, 'How great of a plan is it when Fools trust their Decision to Elect Good Decision Makers?'

But what if People aren't Helpless Morons, then what?
Well, then they can trust their Own Decisions and don't need others to do it for them. So, obviously, GOVERNMENT = STUPID PEOPLE IN SLAVERY TO PEOPLE, and if they are equal, then they are THE SAME!!! Therefore:
NO GOVERNMENT = NO STUPID PEOPLE IN SLAVERY
or
FREE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE

I feel that I've hammered that point to death now and will move on. What is sad is I know so many Still Won't Get It!!! This isn't Rocket Science here Folks!!

And a quote for those who recall his oddball comments;
"I've often wondered, what if all of us in the world discovered that we were threatened by a greater power from outer space from another planet--wouldn't we all of a sudden find that we didn't have any differences between us at all?"

Reagan is essentially the guy who said, "Can't we all just get along?", but not in those exact words.

Not quite. He's the guy who said, "Let's group together cause we are the same and their is something Different out there that we don't understand, and at this point is something fictional that I have just made up, but let's gang up and go KILL IT!!"

I've heard that speech before. Against so called Savages in other lands who we didn't know or care to know, but crossed oceans to destroy them and take everything they had. Claiming it was for their own good. That we were helping them. (I'm not talking about IRAQ either BTW. But it's easy to how it might apply there too isn't it?? Hmmmm.....wonder why??)

We don't need an ENEMY to not be ENEMIES OURSELVES!! If you really want to find the Enemy it's they guy who's looking for Enemies!! So if that is you, KILL YOURSELF & YOU GOT 'EM!!

So why were there so many attempts on his life, what were "they" trying to prevent or hide. We will never know, or will we...

Well, 'they' obviously thought he was the Enemy!

Some of you are probably wondering, what is he typing about, what is this thread leading to. Well if any of you have read the numerous threads of mine it may be more clear. For those who have not, take another glance at my avatar, it may dawn on you eventually.

Our government is getting out of control, if it isn't someone is doing a great job of making us think it is. Smear campaigns, propaganda, mis and dis information. Who is it for, the American people, our "enemies"?

I couldn't agree more ADVISOR!! Just as your AVATAR is One who Stands Strong Upon His Own Two Feet, so should we. Where is the Government in that Picture?? Hmmm...Must be hiding. Or possibly sneaking up to stab you in the back, cause it sure isn't in the Picture. Or perhaps the reason why your AVATAR Stands Alone with Courage is because he knows He Requires NO CONTROL except SELF CONTROL. Now there is a Wise & Free Man. The Duke could even learn a few things from that guy.

Just have to love your way with words, what a way to spice things up.



Regenmacher, nice addition very good.
However RANT was on the mark with the "Individual Responsibility versus Big Government", bit.


Well, not sure what else to say exept;

Let it be known, those of us who knew, tried.

I think we became dependent on big government throughout the years, and we keep going towards more of communist state.
When the constitution was formed, we were a republic of sovereign citizens who had a government to ensure that sovereignty.
More and more, people are dependent on everything else, centralized this and centralized that. So when the government break's down, we break down, but it shouldn't be that way.
I like this thread.

Where do we start and who's to start it? Yes we the people are the bosses of the gov't but we cannot as Donnie Trump would put it say your fired as easily. I know exactly what your saying as I had a similar post. It's a tough call and I do want some power back as I'm sure most of you do. We need to have a word about everything that happens in our country. If it's something that effect the population then the population should make the decision.

President Reagan was a man of great vision who had a unigue talent of taking complicated political issues and condensing them down to simple concepts everybody could understand whether or not you agreed with him. There was no ambiguity or prevarication in his statements, hence the great communicator label.

The nation was very fortunate to have him as president during the 1980's, I shudder to think of the alternatives when looking back on history.

One of Reagans visions was to reduce the size of the federal government. In another time and place he would have been successful in this vision, but cold war realities and domestic politics prevented this from occuring.

ADVISORS, Quoting of Samuel adams is just as applicable today as it was when he made it,

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

I believe this not to be an observation on Sam Adams part, but rather it is a warning to his and future generations about the loss of freedom experienced by allowing the government to usurp personal responsibility.

Using todays standards lets see the comparisons of Sam Adams statement sentence by sentence.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty",
I can think of many examples that fit this today, this fits able bodied persons on government assistance all the way up to the multi-national corporations that RANT fears. A wide variety of persons, groups and corporations are only intersted in what government can do for them at the expense of all without giving one wit about the results on the nation.

"The tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace".
If one prefers laws, legislation and government in place of personal responsibility Sam seems to be saying those that expect government to provide for their every whim should have no say in their lot, he says - "go home" you have nothing to morally argue about.

"We ask not your counsel or arms".
Those not fighting for freedom, but for gain are not reliable.

"Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you".
Give up your freedom by purpose or forfiture and this will happen.

"May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
Stating an obvious and deserved distain for those that give up freedom by purpose or forfiture.

If Samual Adams were alive today and spoke these words he would be considered a far rightwing nut by a large group of people, further he would be compared to people such as adolf Hitler by our more liberal element for his ideas of what freedom means, perhaps this would be because his words hit to close to home for some to admit.

ADVISOR your call to take back this country rings true for me as I believe we have strayed to far from the ideals that the founders had in mind when it was founded.

It seems to me the only possibility of doing this politically is to lift the libertarian party out of its doldrums and get back to a constitutional government for and by the people.

This will unfortunatly take almost as long as it took to spoil the republic as it is so I am prepared for this to take a long time to accomplish also.

Samuel Adams was perfectly correct. Its the I'm alright, Jack mentality of many people that have allowed the Governments of the world to take our freedoms from us. Apathy is the killer of the human spirit. Either we get off our arses and tell the governments to work for us, or we just sink deeper into slavery.

Its our choice.

I'm glad to see this is of interest, even if a only few of you have the round ones to speak up.

Perhaps it will take just as long to fix this once great nation as it did to ruin it, and it will be worth it. For now though, those willing to "start it", as I See You, so clearly put is on the govs plate. All we the people can do, is react to what goes on, as futile as it may seem.

If enough people gathered out side the white house and congress in a peaceful assembly, and stayed there until all voices were heard and actually listened too, I feel that would be a great start. After all, that is how things used to get done, and another thing, we REALLY need to go back to the paper ballots for voting. Even though it seems easier to just click a button to vote, we all know the technology is screwing us ALL over ROYALY!

It's been proven already the modern way of voteing is not accurate, who cares if it takes a little bit longer to count all the slips of paper! Do they really have anything better to do (besides waste the time they could have been counting, by bitching), I think not.

What disappoints me though, is the lack of replies to the few posts I do make in simular fashion to this one. Speaking out, I wonder if people are actually afraid to make a stand, even online where they are able to speak minds without anything more than some troll flaming. I'll not get it...

What is important that I see, is that I'm not alone in these beliefs. At least there are people who do consider what I type to have merit, and that counts for ALOT. For, as long as even a few of us hold on to the true ways of this country, "they", will never really take it all away. Many others, and myself have swore to that.

It's just too bad, not everyone has...

I'd like to refresh this thread for new discussion.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
I'd like to refresh this thread for new discussion.

Hmm, maybe this year..or next.

Oh and by the way really quick off topic, in BTS my second post, I just knew the Government bit was some where on here.

The Secret

Be lucky that you don't get all the government you are paying for

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Our government is getting out of control, if it isn't someone is doing a great job of making us think it is. Smear campaigns, propaganda, mis and dis information. Who is it for, the American people, our "enemies"?

Some time back there was a saying going around, "Take back ATS" and other nonsence, well what about TAKE BACK AMERICA!
Or even take back the world.

It seems the people have been manipulated by fear, or maybe this quote would say it better;

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

- Samuel Adams, debates of 1776

Whoa.. your right, ADVISOR.

So, what shall we do to "TAKE BACK AMERICA!"? You want to start building bombs and take out the local government offices first? You want to start the planning to take back America...or the world. Set up some teams to strike the White House, would that be a good start in taking it back?

WHO IS READY? Some people are always talking about stopping the NWO and all...

ADVISOR created this thread back in 2004. How much territory have we captured from "them" since the call to action? Where are our troops ready and fighting?

hmm...

maybe we are doomed ADVISOR...



[edit on 17-12-2005 by andpau66]