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Hiding God's Name

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posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 03:08 AM
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There is a conspiracy (which has been widely successful) to hide God's name from those who would seek to worship Him. God's name, Yahweh (from the Tetragrammaton yod-he-waw-he), actually occurs in the Old Testament over 6, 800 times. It is translated in the King James Version (and most other Bibles) as LORD or GOD (all in capital letters). See Strong's Exhaustive Concordance #3068 of its Hebrew dictionary.

Many so-called Christians adhere to the Jewish superstition that it is somehow disrespectful to use the name of God. However, NOWHERE in the entire Bible does Yahweh ever tell Israel to refrain from using His name if they are living according to His will. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Yahweh Elohim commands His children to use His name.

Then there are those who spread the lie that God's true name could somehow be forgotten, or that we would lose the knowledge of its correct pronounciation. But Yahweh is all-powerful, all-knowing, and ever-present. This is His universe, He made the rules, and everything operates ultimately in order to accomplish the purposes of His divine will.

Thus, He has ordained that those who desire to know His name, and worship Him in spirit and in truth, will be able to do so. There is no secret which Yahweh is unable to reveal unto His children. But as for those who do not have true faith, do not really love Him, or those who simply don't care, they will not discover and use His true name. And, if they do learn it, they will not acknowledge it.

There are many who will discourage you from using the name of Yahweh. They are not to be trusted, for they are either deceived about this matter themselves, or they don't have your best interest at heart.

Concerning the pronounciation of the Tetragrammaton: Yahweh, the personal name of God, is spelled yod-he-waw-he in Hebrew. The pronounciation of the "waw" as "vav" is a more modern innovation, introduced primarily by the Ashkenazi* who didn't even use Hebrew as a spoken language until the end of the 19th century and the emergence of Zionism. Prior to that, they either spoke Yiddish or the vernacular language of whatever country they happened to be dwelling in. For at least 1700 years, Hebrew was only used for writing by the Jews. Most, and I mean the vast majority, of those who study such matters agree that the sixth letter of the Hebrew alphabet was always pronounced as a "w" in ancient times.

www.yrm.org...
www.ynca.com...
www.mindspring.com...

www.jafi.org.il...
www.ancient-hebrew.org...
www.specialtyinterests.net...
www.derech.org...
www.omniglot.com/writing/hebrew.htm


For those who still might insist that the Ashkenazi Jews would have a better understanding of such matters than supposed 'Gentiles', it should be stated, and emphasized, that many, if not most, Ashkenazi are not even blood Israelites, but are descended from Khazar Turks dwelling on the Russian Steppes who converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages. But don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself.

Also of interest: "A Detailed History of [the name] Jehovah" (incorrect pronounciation of the Tetragrammaton dating from the Middle Ages, especially considering that the Hebrew language has no character pronounced with a "J" sound. And neither does Greek for that matter.)
www.yhwh.com...


[edit on 6-6-2004 by Ischyros]
*edit* changed links to working/active links

[edit on 6-6-2004 by Seekerof]




posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 08:18 AM
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Yahweh
The reason they keep the name away is because Yahweh was one of the Gods that Abraham took with him went he left his home town of sumer, along with Abrahm other Gods Yahweh was the fierce god of war was later adopted as the main God. The name was changed to give him a more appealing nature than the fierce blood seeking god of Abraham.

I you want information on this step out of the bible and research in history It will be a very interesting experience for you.



[edit on 6-6-2004 by marg6043]

[edit on 6-6-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 08:56 AM
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So you think that because of natural changes in the hebrew language (changes that happen from time to time in EVERY language on earth), there is a conspiracy to hide god's real name.

Hebrew was mainly used for prayer unltil a man named Eliezer Ben-Yehuda (who was kind of a Jewish patriot) decided to revive the language and make is usable for everyday life. It's only logical that many changes were made in order to achieve this goal, and as time passed the Hebrew language changed even more.

Today noone speaks hebrew in the way it was spoken in the days of the bible. Actually most of the people (especially the young one, or imigrants) who live in Israel today and know hebrew well are having difficulties with reading the bible because it was written in an encient language. The same thing actually happens with absoloutly EVERY language which has very long history. The encient russian for example has many words and even letters that are not present in the russian language today.

I know that because I speak both Russian and Hebrew (although It's much easier for me to speak Hebrew, I speak russian with my family), and I don't see any conspiracy here.

And as you might alrady know, noone in Israel even uses the name Jehova (we just say Adonai (religious people say Hashem sometimes) when we read it in the bible, and Elohim when we talk about it. And when we write it we just write the letter heh and `, and actually instead of Pasuk (I don't know how you call it in english, but it's the numbers that devide each chapter in the bible) Yod Heh (15) we write Tet Vav (which is also 15, but it's like writing 9+6 instead of 10+5), same thing with Yod Vav (Tet Zain)) so noone would use the name Yahweh too even if we thought it was God's real name.

And what would someone gain by hiding God's real name? sounds a bit useless to me.



[edit on 6-6-2004 by Transc3ndent]



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 09:06 AM
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I see your point of view, does make since that through translations languages change, perhaps somebody with more knowledge in Jewish traditions will be able to explain why the name of god has change.

All I have given is a little bit of the story of Yahweh, in wish I am more Knowledgeable in.


This is a very interesting topic I never knew that some religions never use the true name of god.



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 09:13 AM
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I agree the step away from the Bible and into the actual history surrounding the origins of Judaeism and Christianity is very interesting. I am searching for a book I checked out of my University library that was quite interesting about how certain beliefs in thos two religions came to be because of historical reasons. I know I have it in my notes somewhere and if I find I'll let you all know, it is very informative when it came to explaining the history of religions. Another good book is Religion Explained.



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 09:14 AM
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On a philosophical context:
What makes man think he can contain the Creator in a single word or expression?

To encapsulate infinity or try to contain the divine in some squiggly lines that is written ad naseum lacks relevance to say the least...


"To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour." ---Blake



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 09:31 AM
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There are many encient jewish believes that didn't even make it to the bible itself, some of them are even older that the bible.

For example, I bet most of you didn't know that in some book which I don't even know how to read it's name in hebrew (It's something like "Heichalot Rabati") - it says that if you do certain things for a few days, and then sit in some weird posture, and then say about 120 (I think it's 112) times a weird word made of about 40 letters, some weird entity will come and take you to the realms of God. or something.
There you will have to pass different tests and probably will die trying to do so.

There is also a description of God himself in one of those books (maybe in the same one), with detailed descriptions about his organs and the exact size of each organ (there is a description of god in the bible itself, but it's quite different).



[edit on 6-6-2004 by Transc3ndent]



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 09:34 AM
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I highly doubt that this is all a 'conspiracy', per se'. It is more a Theological misconception.
As indicated by this small article/question and answer, below, this is perhaps the reason why?


Q: How was it possible for the Jewish Culture and Religion to lose the understanding of the pronunciation of the Name spelled in Hebrew:: Yod-He-Vau-He? Only vulgar (literal meaning) efforts are made by various Protestant sects to pronounce this Name. Is it not entirely possible that clues have been left in Torah to what the invocation of the Name involves?

A: You've asked several difficult questions. You may want to read what I have written on this subject already in the archive files. Let me just point out that God's name was something always holy, and it was not used in a secular manner. To this day, many Jews simply refer to God as HaShem lit. "the Name."

According to Jewish tradtion, God's proper name (Yahweh) was uttered only once and on Yom Kippor when the High Priest entered the Holy of Holies. Once the Temple was destroyed, the pronunciation was forgotten as well. Some maintain that there are always a handful of people who know the proper pronunciation in every generation, and one who uses God's proper name is said to be able to perform miracles, Such a person mastering this ability is what is sometimes referred to as "Baal Shem Tov" lit. "master of the good name."
..................
Does Scripture allude to the name's proper pronunciation? nobody really knows for sure.

How was the pronunciation for God's name lost?

For a more indepth Jewish perspective on this, I would refer this:
The Name of God



seekerof

[edit on 6-6-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 09:41 AM
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I kind of remember reading that one of the problems with translations was that the ancient language did not have vowels in it and as they translated into more modern language they had to add the vowels in making some meanings change completely.

Does anybody have any knowledge on this?



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 01:50 PM
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"Yahweh Elohim commands His children to use His name."

Is this true?

I have been calling the Jew/ Christian god Yahweh. [I have been pronouncing it yahway,] since I read somewhere that his name was written out of the bible when it was not meant to be. I use his name even if I am pronouncing it wrong. I figure he would forgive me seeing as someone forgot the true pronunciation.


I do not except what the Jews tell us, if Yahweh in the bible told us to use his name.

If Yahweh or god did want his children to use his name then why are we not?

I don’t like using the word Lord because British society has its Lords and I WILL NOT associate those people with god.



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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Yahweh is derived from the Hebrew word for “I Am”.

The best example that I can find.
Jesus was and is God (Yahweh, I am).

Exodus 3:13-14

Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I am who I am. [2] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

It is true that God refers to himself an “I am” many times in the bible. The Egyptians had many gods by many different names. Moses wanted to know God’s name so the Hebrew people would know who sent him to them. God called himself “I Am”, a name describing his eternal power and unchangeable character. Hebrews 13:8 says god is the same “yesterday and today and forever” because God’s nature is stable and trustworthy.



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 04:02 PM
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quote from link

"According to the custom of many Jews, the name of GOD was too holy to either write or speak in everyday use. This notion was extrapolated from Deu 5:11, which says we should not take GOD's name in vain. GOD, however, left it up to man to decide what was "in vain". Jews and Christians during the last 2000 years or so decided to be very conservative in this, and decided that GOD's name should only be used by specific authorities (priests, official scripture readers, etc.) and on special occasions."

Thanks kinglizard, it sounds a bit riddely to me, but if what is above is correct, then why should the Christians and Jews have decided for me, that gods name should be sacred, and only for those in the know. Isn’t this a bit like going against the will of god. God wanted us all to know his name and to speak it. I never use his name in vain. I can make that decision for myself. In my opinion it’s a bad example of what Christianity and Judaism is today all this secret stuff. not for me entirely. IMHO



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 05:47 PM
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personally I don't think any human has ever comprehended, heard or understood the name of "god". And i don't mean the gods of the bible, koran, torah, vedic texts. I am talking about the "one god" the nameless that i still believe we cannot understand or comprehend him/her, we can only feel "god". since we humans have to try to comprehend everything, we gave "god" his many names but none are the true ones. just my opinion



posted on Jun, 6 2004 @ 08:04 PM
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I'm with you on that 100% Worldwatcher.

Defining God in a word or phrase sounds implausible bordering on ridiculous. Man has a big ego....



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 01:37 AM
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I gave Christianity a chance and even though I went to youth group where many kids were only there because their parents were Christians and had to go and have never became part of the church.

My first day of going to it I saw cult like religion thats scripture is based on lies that preach superiority over those not with them while constantly gossiping about who does what preaching abstence while proclaiming natural desires are evil.

Yes there are a small number of good Christians who keep the morals and dont go overboard on what the good book says. Ive read the bible and all and it was insulting to have them constantly explaining their Dogma, i felt like because i wasnt a part of the church they though i was clueless.


I like the idea of Jesus the Messiah but I know important facts about his life have been lost in Catholism, many aspects of it are taken straight from Roman mythology. Catholism is what is left of the Roman Empire.

Most humans dont grasp how awesome and mighty God has to be. False religions and twists on good ideas has hurt the diety's image. If there is a God think of what that means and what kinda of power God has.



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 04:15 AM
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A couple of important verses related to God's name.

King James Version Exodus 3:13-15
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: (Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh) and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM (Ehyeh) hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God (Yahweh Elohim) of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

KJV Psalms 8:1 O LORD (Yahweh), our Lord (Adon), how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

KJV Psalms 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee

KJV Psalms 44:20-21
20 If we have forgotten the name of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange God;
21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

KJV Psalms 45:17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

KJV Psalms 91:14-16
14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation (Yahshua - the true Hebrew name of the Son and human incarnation of Yahweh Elohim).

KJV Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation (Yahshua); I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD (YAH) JEHOVAH (YAHWEH) is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation (Yahshua).

KJV Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD (YAHWEH): that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

KJV Isaiah 50:10 Who is among you that feareth the LORD (YAHWEH), that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD (YAHWEH), and stay upon his God (Elohim).

KJV Isaiah 51:15 But I am the LORD (YAHWEH) thy God (Elohim), that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD (YAHWEH) of hosts is his name.

KJV Jeremiah 23:26-27
26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
27 Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal (lord in Hebrew).



posted on Jun, 7 2004 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
Yahweh is derived from the Hebrew word for “I Am”.

The best example that I can find.
Jesus was and is God (Yahweh, I am).

Exodus 3:13-14

Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I am who I am. [2] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

It is true that God refers to himself an “I am” many times in the bible. The Egyptians had many gods by many different names. Moses wanted to know God’s name so the Hebrew people would know who sent him to them. God called himself “I Am”, a name describing his eternal power and unchangeable character. Hebrews 13:8 says god is the same “yesterday and today and forever” because God’s nature is stable and trustworthy.


Hmmm, there isn't really a word in Hebrew for "I am". You can say "Ani" which means "me" and "anochi", which also means "me", but you cannot say "I am".
The "I am" thing from Exodus has a different explanation and meaning.
God does not tell Moses that his name is "I am", but he tells him something like "Noone can comprehend and understand my name, so tell them I am whoever I am", it's like asking what is a cow, and answering that a cow is a cow, or asking "who are you?" and answering "I'm me".
The hebrew words in the bible for "I am who I am" is "Ehiye asher ehiye". "ehiye" is written with Alef-Heh-Yod-Heh, which is somehow similar to Yof-Heh-Vav-Heh (Yahwe), but I don't think there is any reference to God's real name in saying "I am" (though the Hebrew verb Lehiyot (to be) might have something in common with God's name).



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 09:54 AM
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Kode, nowhere in the NT does Jesus refer to his father as Yahveh, Yahweh or anyother such deity...The only thing he calls him is ABBA father...Now, for the lowdown on Yahweh I suggest reading An early history of God by Mark Smith...He has written numerous books on the truth about Yahweh...The god of this entire universe is not a god of war as demonstrated by this Yahweh character.
Also, do you know why it reads "I am who I am"...because in those times it was a superstition that if a person knew a gods name then that god would become his servant...naturally, this god wouldn't reveal his name...



posted on Jun, 8 2004 @ 10:51 AM
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1. Several people have opined that modern hebrew is somehow a different language from the classical hebrew of the psalms. While the pronunciation is altered, and some of the verbal forms are understood to have simplified meanings, the consonants remain what they are. This is true across almost all semitic languages, ancient or modern. i.e. Modern Arabic "peace be with you" is Salaam Alaykem. Hebrew is Shalom Aleychem. "No" is 'la' in Arabic; it's 'lo' in Hebrew. There are many imported words and words that have evolved different meanings, but most arabs and Jews can understand each other's basic statements. Most modern hebrew speakers can read the very straightforward hebrew of the first 'book' of psalms, as well as things like isaiah or the binding of isaac.

2. The original post has what I consider spurious assumptions. Yad, he, and vav are not exactly vowels in the Indo-European concept. They are consonants that show what vowels should be pronounced.

For instance, final he implies a preceding qames, the short a sound. As in "Zacariah," written "zkryh." Hence, the divine name must end in an "ah" sound

the initial construct "Y-H-V" gives a vowel form like "Ye-Ho," as in Joshuah, written "yhv-sh-o/a"

So y-h-v-h, could be transliterated as "Yeho-ah" (no v!) This is pretty cumbersome in Hebrew, but conforms to the verb y-h-y, to be.

Incedentally God's name is not "I am who I am." You're thinking of Popeye, rather than the deity.

The Divine name is "I THAT (because) I AM," or equally "I WILL BE BECUASE I WILL BE"

3. It could be argued that the Tetragrammaton is not the divine name at all, but a rebus for God's true name. There is more than one reading of Exodus 3:13-14.

4. YES. God's name DID need to be kept secret. Words mean things. Names have power. Other cultures believed this too, i.e., plains indians. In fact, this worldview was universal until the Enlightenment.

God did not actually manufacture the world; he spoke WORDS, and the world popped into existence in obedience.

He gave Adam dominion over creation by allowing first man to name all the animals

Jacob's name was a negative label. It basically means "Taker." But God changed his name, and changed his soul. In return, Israel (God-wrestler) renamed the place where God wrestled with him.

Every city in the ancient world had a secret name, and knowing it could allow it to be taken. Atillah payed millions in gold to learn the secret name of Rome . . .

So God's name could very rightly be kept as a secret from the world, so that they not take it in vain.



posted on Jun, 12 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

the initial construct "Y-H-V" gives a vowel form like "Ye-Ho," as in Joshuah, written "yhv-sh-o/a"

So y-h-v-h, could be transliterated as "Yeho-ah" (no v!) This is pretty cumbersome in Hebrew, but conforms to the verb y-h-y, to be.



This is not necessarily so. The letter "vav" can be read as "O", "U" or "V", depending on the word. Another thing to remember is that each letter in Hebrew can be read in many different ways, depending on the dots surrounding it (it's called Nikud in Hebrew). Most of the people (probably starting from 4th grade) do not write with those dots, so you can write the letter "HEH" and read it as "Ho" or "Hu" or "Hee".

And if you know Hebrew and you don't know Arabic, you probably won't understand a word from what an Arabic-speaker says to you. Although some words are indeed similar, they way people pronounce them is very defferent.




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