Energy never dies

reply to post by Bedlam


Thank you very much your explenation is very easy to understand.
Which for me is a good thing .

I don't remember where I read it but it definitely had aether in it.

Black holes you said form when the energy can no longer escape the gravity and the whole star collapses into it self. The place where the energy and matter goes gets so small that the gravity effecting everything in the neighborhood increases because more mass is falling into less space.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Does this not mean that the original gravity of the star does not change but only the effect it has on the space what was filled with the star itself ?

Or is the increase in gravity exponential and reaches further then the star gravity did originally ?

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas

Black holes you said form when the energy can no longer escape the gravity and the whole star collapses into it self. The place where the energy and matter goes gets so small that the gravity effecting everything in the neighborhood increases because more mass is falling into less space.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Does this not mean that the original gravity of the star does not change but only the effect it has on the space what was filled with the star itself ?

Exactly! The gravity is still the same, but the original mass is compacted tremendously. About all you can tell about the original matter is spin, charge, mass, and magnetic field. Theoretically they have a temperature too, which is a sort of measure of the hole's entropy.

Since the star (usually a star, anyway) is now so much smaller, the gravity gradient is spectacular near the hole. The infalling matter and radiation in the accretion and photon disks are whipped around the star at a spectacular rate.

If a black hole is small enough, it will "evaporate" due to particle pair production at the event horizon. I guess if you could control the space expansion coefficient in the volume of the hole, you could expand one to death too, that's supposedly why we're not inside a black hole NOW, although some physicists still think we are. I guess the 3K background radiation could be matter infall into our hole instead of residual energy from the bang.

reply to post by Bedlam


Thank you.

It explains a lot.

accept for two things.
How could a black hole feed from a star which were part of a binary system, if the gravity stayes the same ?

Super massive black holes are said to pull matter in because they are so massive.If the gravity stayes the same, isn't there supposed to be a areea around it empty ? Since it's only effecting a specific area.

Originally posted by Misoir
I was reading that energy never dies it just changes form. Since humans are made up of alot of energy does that mean we never die? Maybe our 'spirits' are our bodies left over energy after we die? Please help me out!

If you take a computer, and it you hit it with a sludge hammer, everything it's made up of is still there, but it won't be doing much computing

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Well, gravity goes on forever.

Take your example of a binary system. Generally, (I'm no cosmologist or astronomer, so take it for what it's worth...) you have a system where you have a big red star and a smaller close orbiting companion. The bigger star's "atmosphere" extends past the star itself, much as our Sun's does. The smaller companion scoops this up, and likely its gravity will encourage the red star to give up matter as well, and there's all sorts of tidal issues.

Anyway, if the small massive companion finally scoops up enough matter from the larger low density red star, it can collapse and become a black hole. Then the matter from the red star will start contributing to its accretion disk, and you'll get this nice spiral thing forming between them.

The Stargate episode gets it wrong on a lot of levels, although it's one of my favorites. First, once the singularity forms, the gravity doesn't increase, so you don't see any of that sudden sucking in of matter you see at the very first of the episode. You wouldn't get a sudden time rate change on a planet orbiting the hole, since the planet was ok to begin with and the really steep gradient where you'd see that sort of thing would be closer to the hole itself. If you were that close, the planet would break up instantly due to tides (roche's limit).

On the other hand, it stands to reason that the stargate transport system has to deal with time rate differentials at the two ends of the link, so having a time rate gradient near the device when connected actually makes a demented sort of sense.

Originally posted by Bedlam


Matter is not energy. Matter can be converted to energy.

So you agree?

You cannot convert something into something it is not.

You can only convert something into something it is.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Matter emits electromagnetic radiation,

Because it deteriorates.

The "radiation" is energy emanating from the deteriorating particles.

Thus further proving that all matter = energy.

reply to post by Bedlam


Thanks.

I luv Stargate but I didn't even remember that episode until you just brought it up.

It was in a documantary on space and an artists impression.

Don't you have an answer to the second question ? ( would be fine, I'm already happey with what I've learned so far. )
Or can I expact it later in time ?

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Bedlam


Matter is not energy. Matter can be converted to energy.

So you agree?

You cannot convert something into something it is not.

You can only convert something into something it is.

Not at all. That doesn't even make sense. If it is energy, it wouldn't need conversion, eh?

Matter is not energy, although in some cases it can be converted to energy, and vice versa.

The very definition of "conversion" implies a change in form, no?

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Bedlam

Matter emits electromagnetic radiation,

Because it deteriorates.

The "radiation" is energy emanating from the deteriorating particles.

Thus further proving that all matter = energy.

Not at all. Any matter with a temperature > absolute zero emits EM radiation. Not because it's "deteriorating". If it's charged and moving, it'll emit EM radiation too, in the form of deBroglie waves.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Oh, I thought I had. The gravity it's putting out isn't bounded, it goes on forever, more or less.

Matter is continually being attracted to it, if conditions are right, it'll keep getting infall essentially forever. The stuff close to the hole will be drawn in quicker so there is a emptier area nearby that's already been vacuumed up, so to speak.

reply to post by Bedlam


Right.

More or less like what happens in the atmophere with low and high pressure. If the pressure is low there is air that moves in to equalize the pressure, wind.

So a black hole is like an infinite low pressure area in a high pressure surrounding.
So to speak.

Edit. the low pressure comes from the the vaccuum it creates by sucking in even the smallest atom, neutron photon ,whatever.

[edit on 5/2/2010 by Sinter Klaas]

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Sure, and since everything's moving, the black hole is toodling along sweeping in the stray gas and dust in interstellar space, if nothing else.

reply to post by Bedlam


So with enough mass it will never die. well... Until there's no more food of course.

Thank you for your time. It's greatly appreciated

reply to post by Misoir


Misoir - Hoping this gives you some comfort and insight.

From The Upanishads are also called the Vedanta. The literary meaning of Vedanta is “the end of the Vedas.” But the spiritual meaning of Vedanta is “the cream of the Vedas, the pick of the inner lore, the aim, the goal of the inner life. In the Upanishads the spiritual meanings of the Vedic texts are brought out and emphasized in their own right.

According to our Indian tradition, there were once one thousand one hundred and eighty Upanishads. Each came from one branch, shakha, of the Vedas. Out of these, two hundred Upanishads made their proper appearance, and out of these two hundred, one hundred and eight Upanishads are now traceable. www.poetseers.org...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/40775ec2881d.jpg[/atsimg]

And no our energy, our lifeforce, some call it our soul - never dies.

I have felt this as it has lifted from the dying body. I could not see it, but felt it for only a brief second.

I'm not a sage or even very smart or wise but I felt this "passing/lifting/leaving" several times.

Only these shells that trap our souls die and when these shells die our soul, our real inness pops out and moves on.

"I honor the Spirit in you which is also in me."

We are all part of the one.



[edit on 14-8-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by Misoir


That's true,although you eat the foood and it disapears,it later reapears out the other end. Although it's flushed,it again appears at the waste management facility.

energy is only crafted,never destroyed.