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Greece is History, Greece Accepts bailouts

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posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:04 AM
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Greece secures 'unprecedented' eurozone bailout

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Bailout means 'the party is over for most Greeks' Culture of tax evasion about to come to end under new rules

www.edmontonjournal.com...


This just the start.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

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[edit on 2/5/2010 by Mirthful Me]




posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 


This means the NWO own Greece now, who'x next>? I guess would be the question..



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:26 AM
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Hmmm... Sound familiar?
www.timesonline.co.uk...


Anger is intensifying over cuts to be made as part of the EU deal to save the economy

Economists regard the bloated civil service with its jobs for life and generous pensions as a cancer consuming the country’s resources.


Bureaucrats will raise their fists at the barricades in a general strike and protests on Wednesday to protect their considerable perks from the IMF.

They and other public sector workers are virtually unsackable, can retire as early as 45 and get bonuses for using a computer, speaking a foreign language and arriving at work on time.

One of the most generous bonuses is paid to unmarried daughters of dead employees in state-controlled banks: they can inherit their parents’ pensions.





[edit on 2-5-2010 by infolurker]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:29 AM
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NWO got Greece? Hah..

It is more like common sense that has been now forced upon them. Do you actually know the benefits and system that are in place in Greece at the moment?



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:32 AM
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Greece's economy will get better and it will take about a decade imho .

second line



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by Alphard
 


It is not just Greece, other countries are also effected, if Greece was isolate then sure I would agree with you..



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by Alphard
NWO got Greece? Hah..

It is more like common sense that has been now forced upon them. Do you actually know the benefits and system that are in place in Greece at the moment?


yeah considering the structure of the Greek economy one could make the opposite argument and say that Greece is the NWO, and that the Greeks have just been saved from a further descent into slavery.

Eventually all of those cold-war #-ups like Greece, Italy and Spain will have to finally come to face reality. The times where American CIA dollars were flowing freely enough to cover up all the corruption and waste is finally over; now it's time to either face economic realities or just lay down in the shade and die.

I can't see how this has anything to do with the "NWO", and I fail to see how this is a bad thing for Greece, or for Europe. People knew this was coming. The EU could have refused to look the other way when they discovered that most sothern EU states cook their books; and the problem would have been solved then. Either you wise up on your own, or you get shocked. THat's the way the economy works.

But yeah, there is some truth to the argument that the whole process wasn't really fair; the role of the rating agencys can be debated, but to say that a serious reform of the greek economy is not needed is simply to deny reality.

Just look at their taxation system. Or the structure of their public sector and how they are compensated. No industrial nation could survive those kind of games for long (without foreign aid for being on the "right" side in the cold war, that is - that's what allowed the greeks to play crooked for decades).

[edit on 2-5-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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No, Greece isn't going to get better, Spain, Portugal and Italy will follow suit and those countries that will pay up (the money is coming from somewhere) will not be able to make do.

Greece let it come this far, how can you expect a whole nation to suddenly wake up and start doing the right thing when they've been doing it wrong for decades? And this isn't just Greece; many western nations have been living the wrong way for decades and are unwilling/unable to change their bad habits in a short time.

It's human nature, people will just hold up their hands and beg for some more money rather than lower their standards of luxury and then other countries pay up, because they need a healthy partner to trade with.

What baffles me about the whole situation is the response of Greeks:


More than half of Greeks say they will take to the streets if the government agrees to new austerity measures, according to a newspaper poll.


So basically they are a lazy bunch compared to other EU countries, now they are getting into trouble and have to loan money to keep up their lazy way of life so that the people who lend them the money (taxpayers of other EU countries) have to work even harder for them to keep up their laziness! Instead of working harder half of the population wants to go on a strike and protest against the government's cutbacks?

In comparison to the US bailouts, at least the US did something with the money, investing it in an army in an effort to make the world safer. The money came from US taxpayers, in Greece's case the money comes from EU members who don't get anything in return. Ah yeah I almost forgot, thanks for the olive oil and if you want to put Greece's relations in a historic perspective, thanks for inventing democracy (even though some other country would come up with it anyway).

What did the Greeks do with their money besides handing out all kinds of benefits to it's residents?

[edit on 2/5/2010 by Dragonfly79]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by Alphard
NWO got Greece? Hah..

It is more like common sense that has been now forced upon them. Do you actually know the benefits and system that are in place in Greece at the moment?



How is taking a MASSIVE LOAN = Common sense?

You must think that War = Peace
and Poison = Food
????

Because that is your logic.

Taking a loan of this size is suicide. It is NOT common sense.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash


How is taking a MASSIVE LOAN = Common sense?



I'm not the one to defend the international economic system, but under the current paradigm this is surely common sense. Greece has tons of obligations that they can't fullfil, so they nee to borrow money to service those obligations. Of course I am aware of how dumb that sounds, but it's not as if the whole strategy can't work at all. You have a point; in the end the question of wheter or not a new loan can fix the problems is a mathematical problem, if Greece isn't able to tap new revenues after taking the loan then it is indeed a suicidal strategy.

But the idea behind the loan ist to empower the Greek state to service its obligations. Attached to the loan are conditions on Greek public finance; if they fullfill these conditions then mathematically they are able to repay their loans. In fact, assuming that most Greeks pay their Taxes next year and that the collossal corruption and waste in the Greek system are adressed soon, then Greece has a very good chance of this being the last major loan they will have to take up as an emergency step.




Taking a loan of this size is suicide. It is NOT common sense.


That depends on who is givng out the loan on what conditions. The conditions don't seem suicidal to me, they seem to be common sense in most other European countries.

I'd say defaulting on your sovereign debt is suicide - national suicide that is, which most often comes with way more conditions set by foreigners than simply taking a loan does.

It does seem rational to me. It does seem to be what common sense demands. The trade-offs as compared to defaulting clearly point to taking this loan being a rational strategy. This way part of the anger of the Greeks can be defused on the IMF, etc - the protests you are seeing now are nothing against what you would see if Greece would have defaulted.

Defaulting can be a good startegy but only if the circumstances are different than in the Greek case.

But I guess it's mostly a battle of opinions. All I'm saying is that given current economic paradigms, taking this loan is neither suicidal nor something that violates common sense.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 08:17 AM
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Hmmm…
So sad, so sad!
Yesterday (according to MSM) there were lot's of riots…
I also heard on the radio that they are cutting 8% of all (unsure) salaries.
Sad!



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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wow some of you think the bailouts will help greece?
It wont help.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by skunknuts
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter
 


Hey look, Agent USA is pretending to be an educated economist. Again!

Best,
SN



And here is everyone meet MR USA capitalism Man coming to save you, in the holy name of OBAMA the true President



Funny you got one star for attacking me, and who are you an economist? i think not.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism
This means the NWO own Greece now....


Uh uh

The US [taxpayer] is the largest underwriter of IMF funding/loan programs. It might be more accurate to declare that we now own a controlling share in the Titanic otherwise known as Greece. Some estimate this "bailout" will cost the US taxpayer 100BB USD.

The outrage ?

Practically non-existent.

AJ6P never connects the dots, and doesn't realize his pockets been picked until he's paying higher prices at the supermarket a year down the road.

Along side our other winning assets [bailouts] - AIG - GM - Chrysler - Fannie Mae - Freddie Mac - and several toxic financial institutions, our stake in the Greek economy makes for one hell of a dynamic portfolio folks.

Truly, the joke is on us.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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Dumbass Greeks.. It's hard to have pity for them when you see what they waste their money on .. but then, you have to feel bad that other countries are forcing them to act a different way.. a non-greek way... but to accept the bailout, you exchanged economic hardships for what? You're now the bitch of the EU, the USA, and international banks...

The US Government is giving Greece $105 billion dollars.. the Germans will offer up the other big piece of the pie, and everyone else will get to own a little bit of Greece --- even Greece paid $2.5 billion to bail out Greece (don't ask how that makes sense..)

And please, Greeks.. don't think the rest of the World cares about you.. they don't .. the only reason you're being saved (if you call this saving) is because you could sink the Euro. One Soveriegn Default in the EU and the entire Euro could collapse..

Why do you think Iceland wasn't pushed upon? .. They were offered a bailout, the people said !% you, even while countries like Britain tried to use anti-terror laws on Icelandic holdings they were so mad... but Iceland wasn't in the Euro, so in the end, no one cared... last I checked the depression there has sucked all around, but at least they are free and sovereign, and surprise, things are looking up for them. Why, their island even had some retribution for Europe, coating it in ash and crippling it's economy.


When the Greek communist/socialist roll over and allow themselves to be raped by mega banks, oppressive countries and the likes.. then we know their spirit is broken, and the Globalist claim one for their own.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by OBE1
 


$105 billion according to the last estimates, the IMF not being an actual institution but the offspring of Congress, it has to get funding from somewhere.. but I think Europe is happier hearing "IMF loan" instead of "US Loan" .. which is essentially what it is. It will be in the IMF denomination, so as to keep a clean ratio of currencies, keeps it stable.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by OBE1
 


AND America is not the biggest and strongest state owned by the NWO?



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Well.. considering most of the corporations dominating the World and pushing for Globalism are American .. one could assume that America IS the NWO .. in partnership with France and Britain and Germany. Those four countries alone dominate almost every aspect of life on this planet..



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
AND America is not the biggest and strongest state owned by the NWO?


I may have a keen interest in spirituality, ufology, and things paranormal oozyism, but I'm not one that subscribes to the NWO thesis. Greed ridden international corporations, corrupt, self-serving political institutions, and powerful families whose roots may trace back to Old Europe (like those of many average US citizens) don't qualify in my opinion, and I refuse to buy-into the mindset that I am "owned". I'm not a slave to anyone, or anything, outside of my own shortcomings and limitations. Fortunately I followed my intuition and began prepping for this downturn/currency crisis a number of years ago. A wife at the time that grimaced whenever I began researching a new miner...friends and acquaintances that snickered when I mentioned precious metals. Funny, they aren't snickering today...on the contrary, some of them are even they're asking questions.

Perhaps because I represent an older generation. My working-class parents were raised during the GD. I've heard the vivid anecdotes. For the most part I inherited a set of values that emphasized the importance of restraint, delayed gratification, frugality when necessary, political awareness, and self determination. I certainly made mistakes during my formative years, pizzed-it away on more than one occasion, but I've always had a foundation to fall back on. I'm most grateful for that.

Many Americans have been living in their own private Athens. Granted, the system is seductive, clever in promoting indebtedness...manipulating emotions, but I still believe in taking personal responsibility. Too easy to play victim...lay-off woes on a corrupt legal system, Madison Ave, capitalism run a-muck, or the NWO...and what would I learn about myself in that process ? What real strengths would I develop ?

I apologize for the lecture-y tangent oozyism, but there is always a way. With a modicum of education and determination there are basic protective measures available to every, and I emphasize every, motivated Joe & Jane regardless of situation, but they may have to shake-loose the NWO overlay in order to fully appreciate them. Personally, I find it oppressive.

I believe state of mind is paramount in any circumstance, and as they say: Free the mind, and [insert desire] will follow.



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