What would an appropriate penalty be for BP's destruction of an entire ecosystem?

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
reply to post by Karlhungis

 

BP executives and all businessmen and contract employees involved should each get an extra $100,000,000 bonus for the headache of having to work so hard to alleviate the sorrows of an Act of God. Without BP we would be in a lot of trouble. They deserve a round of applause for their constant efforts to make our lives better and more fulfilling than ever before in the history of the world.

What would an appropriate penalty be for radical original posts on ATS? I mean a guy can win $200,000,000 just for buying a lottery ticket. What does he accomplish? Is he a target of contempt?

So welfare is only good for millionaires

No wonder this countries screwed

reply to post by kiwifoot


Excellent, you deserve a thousand stars.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


I too think that BP should be held accountable, but also we have to look at US policies, although I do believe this was international waters where it occured. The oversight on this rig has been lax to say the least. By BP, and also by whatever agency oversees off-shore oil drilling.

Yes BP should be looking at cleaning up this mess. But would you want to be hired by this company to clean it up? Would you be willing to tell environmentalists that you work for BP? I sure wouldn't want to be associated with BP after this, even if they were doing everything to return the Gulf region to pre-disaster levels.

I don't know, I guess the only thing I can think of to describe this event as a large #-sandwich...and everyone is gonna have to take a bite. Whether that is right or wrong, it's life. We can stop supporting BP, but that just means we'll be helping some other mega-corporation that has the same principles and luckily hasn't had a major disaster in a few years (Exxon).

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Why are you people acting like BP did this on purpose?

Accidents happen.

It doesn't mean we should start throwing other people's money around and imprisoning people.

Pathetic.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

What is wrong with you?

Are you saying that their business' impact on other business's is an act of god?

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by ventian
My personal thing is, the CEO should spend life in jail.

What did he do?

The CEO is not at fault. He was not on the rig.

Pathetic.

CEO as in head honcho as in head of the company. Of course he is at fault. Sure accidents happen. These guys get to pull all the strings and it is never their fault if anything happens. Ok the guys on the rig working day to day just to support their families. Lets jail them. Lets make sure that no freaking millionaire ever has to worry about jail, that is just for us poor folks.

The CEO should be held accountable for controlling a company that is negligent at best. What do you think is going to happen to people that eat food from that area? Prices will go up. How about those fishermen in the gulf? Gonna be hard to work it now. Oil Prices, perfect raise them and coincidently BP's profits can go higher. Lets not forget about the entire ecosystem destroyed because of a so called "Accident". Hell forget that, lets just let these guys go on about their day to day lives, screwing us over for the sake of having more money than they already do.

He will get a fine which is a joke. As CEO he should have realized this could have happened and took preventative measures. In the end when things like this happen we all foot the bill. Expect BP to lay off workers and the fat cats on wall street get richer. I want you to "accidentally" throw out a cigarrette butt during the next drought in your area. Then when all the woods burn down go tell the authorities. Then make sure to relay me how you do compared to how the CEO of BP does. I don't care if he has money, I do care that he is above the law.

Transocean Ltd. is the world's largest offshore drilling contractor and the leading provider of drilling management services worldwide.

With a fleet of 139 mobile offshore drilling units plus three announced ultra-deepwater newbuild units,....

Building on more than 50 years of experience with the highest specification rigs, our 18,000 employees are focused on safety and premier offshore drilling performance.

www.deepwater.com...

Nine of the eleven crew members missing in the tragic fire/explosion were employees of TransOcean Ltd.


Maybe we should take a look at everyone who had a part in this venture.

Welcome to the Gulf of Mexico Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Region of the Minerals Management Service (MMS). MMS is a bureau of the Department of the Interior. Our mission is to manage the mineral resources of the Outer Continental Shelf in an environmentally sound and safe manner.
www.gomr.mms.gov...

No Winners this year?

2010 Offshore Industry Safety Awards Postponed

WASHINGTON D.C. — The Department of the Interior’s Minerals Management Service (MMS) announced today that the 2010 Annual Industry SAFE Awards Luncheon scheduled for May 3, 2010 at the Offshore Technology Conference (OTC) in Houston, Texas has been postponed.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

Excellent, you deserve a thousand stars.

Oh thanks a lot! made my day (well morning at least!)!

I fear that there'll be a slap on the wrist, I mean if they're making $15 Billion a year in profit (conservatively) what is a billion or two to them.

The people who own and control these companies care little for the environment, justice, truth and good.

It's a sad sad turn of events, have a good one friend!

Well, since the socialists have shown what they want to happen, use this as an excuse to nationalize the oil industry, that should be an indicator of just what is going on in our economy.

Might want to ask yourself, who exactly was behind the economy's downfall. Was it the greedy capitalists or the socialists in our government? Might open some people's eyes, others.......not so much. Or, they might just think it was worth destroying everyone's savings, for the good of the collective!

Now, everyone here has certainly glossed over the news that BP has stated they will pay any and all people that will be hurt by this.

I wonder how if the federal government is going to send BP a bill for 300 Billion to BP. I guess this will be the sign that the socialists in our government have the people's interest involved or their own.

Keep an eye on the left hand while the right hand is waving.

reply to post by Karlhungis


Drop the executives and their families in the middle of the slick. Then whoever gets to be executive next, has to avoid the same fate.

They're rich and clever, just incentivise them. Guarenteed they'd turn on a profit on the clean up too. If they wanted. The bank accounts of the recently deceased execs should be enough to cover the costs.

This scenario was created by men with calculators.

Originally posted by harryhaller
reply to post by Karlhungis

 

Drop the executives and their families in the middle of the slick. Then whoever gets to be executive next, has to avoid the same fate.

That is disgusting and murderous.

You are advocating murder of a person and their family.

How dare you.

The sad thing is, The Exxon Valdez disaster happened near a spot of natural beauty but quite sparsely populated, but this disaster is happening in a near enclosed sea, in a heavily populated area, and there is, up to now, no way of stemming the flow as the leak is at something like 5000ft depth. This is not over by any means and we could end up with an oil slick the size we have never seen before. It is estimated that 60% of all seafood in America comes from the Gulf so the impact will also be huge on the local economy. The clean up will not undo the damage to the eco system being done right now and economy in the near future. It is anyone's guess how long we will feel the impact of this disaster but it is going to be huge.

It also surprises me that some of you think BP is not accountable. What went wrong on that Rig? It will probably boil down to proper safety procedures not being followed and that means that BP is accountable and in that vein I also think the US government is accountable to other countries around the Gulf for allowing offshore drilling by companies that are not sufficiently vetted on safety procedures. This reeks of negligence so the US needs to pay Mexico, Cuba etc... because they WILL be impacted... That means you the Tax payers will end up paying a great deal of the cost of this disaster.

reply to post by Lebowski achiever


I agree with you on everything that you just said, but BP owes every dime of this.. if they can't afford it, then screw'em..

reply to post by Luke.S


BP will be licence holder and duty holder. They hold the contract with the government and subcontract aspects of the operation to others. The buck stops with them from a strict liability perspective.

The oil industry operates a different model to many sectors.

It is an integrated supply chain - businesses specialise in a specific 'activity' that forms a part of that supply chain.

Transocean may supply the rig...but many other companies will be providing additional services, from catering to the lubricant (mud). Other companies will provide the staff to cover their part of the supply chain.

BP is nothing more than a large contract management entity to me.

They are duty holder...they need to audit and manage their supply chain from an HSEQ perspective...therefore, it's their fault...however, I do not believe for a minute they will not seek their pound of flesh from the responsible part of the supply chain.

I am not a BP fan!

This sort of thing would happen alot less if the enviro-nuts and carbon cultists hadn't lobbied to make us stop pulling oil out of the ground.

The US has vast reserves of oil, but the cultists have crept in and made it so we cannot access it.

Same with nuclear power. Enviro-nuts and their fellow alarmists have ruined our access to cheap, clean efficient nuclear energy.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
This sort of thing would happen alot less if the enviro-nuts and carbon cultists hadn't lobbied to make us stop pulling oil out of the ground.

The US has vast reserves of oil, but the cultists have crept in and made it so we cannot access it.

Same with nuclear power. Enviro-nuts and their fellow alarmists have ruined our access to cheap, clean efficient nuclear energy.

That I can actually agree with. Here in Bama they have been pushing and pushing deer limits and this will eventually lead to higher insurance costs as I will be hitting a deer once a year. The fringe environmentalists are being quite disruptive in alot of the aspects of our day to day lives. At the risk of crashing the entire economy, some of these crazies are trying to get this carbon tax crap pushed through. I feel bad for the common sense environmentalists (many right/left wingers I know of) that get caught in the same category as these people. In the end, the whack jobs can lobby harder and so they can push these ridiculous agendas.

wrong thread, wrong person responded to.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by broahes]

Why cant oil companies be forced to plough back a huge chunk of their profits into looking for ways to prevent this happening again. In my opinion solutions should have been worked out in the beginning before any oil was extracted in the first place.
A well known fact is that pipes have a nasty habit of bursting no matter what they're used for, so there should have been some sort of solution ready to put in place at the earliest sign of a rupture to minimise eco-damage (and fines, and the clean-up costs).
But instead what we see is headless chickens running around, trying this and trying that.
We have no way to safely dispose of nuclear waste either, but we are still producing it.
Let's have adequate solutions BEFORE production, and put a stop to this 'eco-cide'.
Dooby

reply to post by broahes


I know what you are saying and I agree with you. I am talking reality here, unfortunately. The taxpayer will end up footing a great part of the bill to Mexico and Cuba as the US government has allowed off-shore drilling on their waters. This means the USA will be held accountable. It is up to the US Government to recoup the money from BP but I am pretty sure that they won't get all of it back. It is also easier to raid the coffers.

[edit on 2/5/10 by Lebowski achiever]

Originally posted by endisnighe
Well, since the socialists have shown what they want to happen, use this as an excuse to nationalize the oil industry, that should be an indicator of just what is going on in our economy.

Might want to ask yourself, who exactly was behind the economy's downfall. Was it the greedy capitalists or the socialists in our government? Might open some people's eyes, others.......not so much. Or, they might just think it was worth destroying everyone's savings, for the good of the collective!

Now, everyone here has certainly glossed over the news that BP has stated they will pay any and all people that will be hurt by this.

I wonder how if the federal government is going to send BP a bill for 300 Billion to BP. I guess this will be the sign that the socialists in our government have the people's interest involved or their own.

Keep an eye on the left hand while the right hand is waving.

Gee End you keep going down the hole don't you?

You gloss over the fact that the very system of LAWS regulating the economy were
systematically dismantled by people who advocate a FREER MARKET. For 70 years
this nation did fine by those tenets, at the very least we did not have the entire economy fall to its knees.

You see I think it was just a ploy, sure enough we got a Trillion dollar War, a Trillion Dollar gas hike, Half a Trillion dollar energy hike and gizzilion dollar collapse.

You see I think much like you and others are sympathetic to the corporations strife, much like you and others disperse blame from this occurrence, your right politicians do the same.

I personally think it is fishy that this love for the movers and shakers, which coincided with the decade for the movers and shakers, was perpetrated by people who love movers and shakers. You may be sad to know that; you, Bush and Dick
would probably agree greatly about the wonders of business.

I would not...

HERE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE

When I was paying $6.00 for gas, the government TRIED to intervene, in fact they
were just trying to open an investigation into the magical rise of pricing.

Guess who blocked it?

Me thinks "they" share your ideas...

Guess what one absurdly honest CEO said regarding the pricing? GEE, sounds like something else that happened...

Market manipulation, on a global level

And the GOP/ AKA the head that loves freedoms blocks it! AMAZING, I would never guess.


Official: A bill to provide energy price relief and hold oil companies and other entities accountable for their actions with regard to high energy prices, and for other purposes. as introduced.
Short: Petroleum Consumer Price Gouging Protection Act as introduced.
Short: NOPEC as introduced.
Short: No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels Act of 2008 as introduced.
Short: Consumer-First Energy Act of 2008 as introduced.

This BILL had 0 AMENDMENTS

I will provide a link to the votes -

www.senate.gov...


Also I have provided a link to a video with the big five OIL Senate Judiciary Cmte. hearing on Rising Crude Oil Prices.

I remember tuning in on cspan to watch this,,, You will be amazed to hear what comes from mouth of John Hofmeister, president and U.S. country chairman, Shell Oil Co( the only honest one of the five) -
paraphrased - he said that if you take out the market speculation and the geo political
concerns that oil can (without speculation) be produced, shipped at about 40 - 60 dollars a barrel -

all the other members cited 130 - 170 a barrel !

bottom video of the four

www.c-span.org...

This video is over three hours but maybe some of you would like to see these men
and feel yourself, defend away (free market ).

www.swivel.com...

So I see a whole lot of defense of wallstreet and now this

oh and that which was just mentioned

All of it has a common theme,

Where does the BS party stop amigo?

You see I really think applying the same solution to every problem and then defending the results with the same accusations gets old.

Before you exaggerate; I have just given you a very good example of the Socialist
Fed trying to be for the collective. The patriots thought it was unworthy to look into the market manipulation, because... WOW... they believe in the free market and bigger WOW, don't care to advocate for the consumers because that is interference.


You advocate for less government, rant about the failures of government, but fail to
admit that it is the people who have an outlook like yours that really don't care about
the pee ons as much as the big boys. Therefore blocking FEDERAL INTERVENTION
REGARDLESS OF THE POSSIBLE REPROCUSIONS, WHICH CREATES BUSINESS for some!!! ... It also makes the GOV look pro corporate and inept... BIGGEST WOW YET!!!

I mean-

Don't like unions, anything with the world social in it, poor people are generally describe as lazy across the board. So is it fair to say you like the successful people more or what? It seems many do, however you imply it and shy from it at the same time.

With that being said my theory employs Occam's Razor

Governments inept??? YES BECAUSE We WANT IT TO LOOK THAT WAY, WE LEGISLATE TO CREATE SUCH RESULTS, WHICH MAKES OUR BELIEFS LOOK MORE ATTRACTIVE... Hows that theory?

All this big business defense, me thinks this is injected into righty policy and benefits the PRODUCERS of the world. Because the producers earned it and worked hard to reach such heights, hell, they even create many jobs.

But back to your works...

How you have built a the SKYSCRAPER of all explanations

again

Occams...

My connections are rather simple, some legislate from the top down, others from the bottom up.

However you claim the socialists do both

Endishighe's Noccam's Blazer

Socialists love their welfare and love them corporations too. Therefore completely preplanning of all the worlds woes, with emphasis on corporate success.


Your wonderful theory also depends on the Bi Polar Socialist canard...

All these socialists get elected, however upon being elected all of their
core socialist beliefs melt from their bodies, poof. right END...?

Socialists HATE CORPORATION by design, as much as you hate welfare, yet once again, you have your Crystal tower, that tells you the ones who hate un abashed capitalism, also work tirelessly to promote it.

Then you assert that the people who love the Free Engines of CAPITALISM, do not pay tribute to the institutions that exemplify their favorite accomplishment of mankind. Finally, capitalism eats more and more money of the piss ons, because the socialist who favor the piss ons, in fact work tirelessly to smite the piss ons

You want it fifteen different ways...

I mean...

Do you think I am retarded?

If you like French Elite doctrine, fine, but I am getting sick of you trying to throw the results in my Maoist lap. You like the corporations and their role in society, own it, wear it proudly.

I finally see that both have distinct roles in the disfunction's of society, then again
I can admit, I can lay one hell of a stinky turd sometimes.

IF you think BP is going to provide for the other business's losses I will laugh preemptively and then ask, how will BP determine that? If not, how on Earth will
the local courts deal with hundreds of thousands of suits? AH, class action, ah lawyers
hundred dollar settlements and clean up on the tax payers dime... Oh and

WELFARE and UNEMPLOYMENT CLAIMS

Goddamned socialists













[edit on 2-5-2010 by Janky Red]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Exuberant1


They're the ones advocating destruction of an entire ecosystem as acceptable risk. They're the ones who reap profits through any cost reduction.

How dare THEY??