What would an appropriate penalty be for BP's destruction of an entire ecosystem?

reply to post by Karlhungis

An interesting question that I think would be worth exploring. Especially in cases like this where companies make so much money that safety and ethics mean nothing. Otherwise, if you have enough money, you simply end up being above the law. And this has been shown to be the case quite a bit recently.

Yes because our laws are made by and for the large corporations.

Read my location.

reply to post by Janky Red


Yes, the impact of this disaster will reach beyond the ecosystem. The local economies will suffer greatly. The local people will be stuck with this for a long time. If it hits the gulf stream like some are suggesting, it won't even be limited to local ecosystems / economies and people.

reply to post by Exuberant1


No it's not just some oil and with that kind of comment you have no comprehension of the extent of this tragedy.

You don't care because it's not you and you and your loved ones aren't involved (You think) however this involves all of us on this ball of dirt we call home.

The oil will be almost impossible to "clean up".

Originally posted by jrmcleod
Sorry for my ignorance but this disaster is not a profound and the Valdez incident off of Alaska. Infact its no where near it.

First of all, ATS members are not in the habit of excusing ignorance. Second of all, you are making a response before even being well informed. The media has reported that this spill "will eclipse" the Valdez incident.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II


Wonder how the OP would feel if after being caught in a traffic violation, the judge determined the fine as a percentage of his annual income?

Actually I believe on the Autobahn in Europe they do fine you according to your income.

Back to OP, the problem with fining the company, is where exactly would the fine go? Would it be all put towards cleanup? Would it be put towards environmental safeguards for the future? This is sticky situation because BP will still want to make a profit margin, and while UK pays approximately $10/gal for petrol, will they see a further increase for fuel prices?

This is my biggest concern with corporations. They are too ambiguous to fine. They have too much influence on such a large scale. A fine of $1 billion dollars will be passed on to the consumers, while the company still pulls in huge profits in its quarterly reporting. Wages for employees will drop, while executives will see continued or rising wage increases. Cutting corners pays on the executive level.

I just hope that this stays as an isolated incident. I mean it is going to affect a lot of things in the Gulf and possibly the Atlantic, but I hope we don't see something like this happen again in any other region of the world. The North Atlantic drills just as heavy as the Gulf, and the Middle East I speculate has just as much off-shore drilling or more.

I'm also curious how this will affect Obama's reversal of the Off-shore drilling off the coasts of Virginia and whatnot, or if he reversed his reversal of that decision? I think it is finally time to start looking at alternative energy sources. Or possibly to take a real hard gander at finding more efficient ways of producing energy.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Yes, the impact of this disaster will reach beyond the ecosystem. The local economies will suffer greatly. The local people will be stuck with this for a long time. If it hits the gulf stream like some are suggesting, it won't even be limited to local ecosystems / economies and people.

They will probably remedy it by raising petrol prices

Sorry, bad joke

Truth is this is completely screwed, in one way it is done, but in another way
it has only just begun.

There is no way to assess the economic damage as that would be speculative.
NOLA will now have a huge hole in their economy and I guess the government will
have to figure something out. FED, STATE AND LOCAL

To be Preemptive against thee KOTET - yes, I did say the government, because I don't
see BP doing a goddamned thing, or being able to address this in the manner it needs to be addressed even if they wanted too.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

The oil will be almost impossible to "clean up".

Nonsense.

Oil is Biodegradable.

*Also, The carbon cultists/nutcases are probably the reason they didn't start burning the oil earlier. Way to go you guys.



[edit on 2-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

My personal thing is, the CEO should spend life in jail. If you or me goes and burns down a forest, it is called arson. Charge him/her with arson on a major scale and let the people on the board get a new CEO. Really people, bankrupting an organization doesn't hurt the person at fault. It only kills an entire workforce.

reply to post by saabster5

I'm also curious how this will affect Obama's reversal of the Off-shore drilling off the coasts of Virginia and whatnot, or if he reversed his reversal of that decision?

I do believe that he has "reversed the reversal" and halted offshore drilling.

And RE the rest of your post, I think that you are correct. It is unfortunate that we have created an environment where we are essentially extorted into avoiding penalizing corporations out of fear that they will simply recoup the fine in other less savory ways.

Originally posted by ventian
My personal thing is, the CEO should spend life in jail.

What did he do?

The CEO is not at fault. He was not on the rig.

Pathetic.

Originally posted by ventian
My personal thing is, the CEO should spend life in jail. If you or me goes and burns down a forest, it is called arson. Charge him/her with arson on a major scale and let the people on the board get a new CEO. Really people, bankrupting an organization doesn't hurt the person at fault. It only kills an entire workforce.

Fair enough

But who is gonna pay for the cleanup?

And the lost wages for all the Maritime business's the eco system used to support?

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by ventian
My personal thing is, the CEO should spend life in jail.

What did he do?

The CEO is not at fault. He was not on the rig.

Pathetic.

Theres the corporate conundrum right there

nobody is ever responsible for their companies actions because they are protected
by the entity as a whole.

Originally posted by Janky Red

And the lost wages for all the Maritime business's the eco system used to support?

Salmon catches increased after The Exxon Valdez spill.

Bet you didn't know that.



[edit on 2-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by Janky Red

And the lost wages for all the Maritime business's the eco system used to support?

Salmon catches increased after The Exxon Valdez spill.

Bet you didn't know that.



[edit on 2-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

Do you also rub salt in peoples eyes at funerals?

No didn't know that, my point is in the end I believe the tax payers are going to foot the bill.

reply to post by saabster5


I say fine BP the amount of money it will take to clean this mess up and now.

We're talking billions of dollars.

They should be made to have to hire as many people as possible to not only clean this spill up but also wash off and care for the sea life, the creatures that call this ocean home.

We need a heavy pollution tax levied on BP immediately and all of it goes towards the clean up of this oil spill.

I also think BP's license or ability to drill for oil should be revoked until such time they can prove to be more responsible.

As of yesterday we are talking 1.6 million gallons of oil.

Most people that do not work with oil have no idea how drastically this is going to effect our planet.

As the worst U.S. oil spill in decades began endangering the shoreline habitat along the Gulf Coast, documents emerged showing that British Petroleum downplayed the possibility of a catastrophic accident at the offshore rig that exploded.

In its 2009 exploration plan and environmental impact analysis for the well, BP suggested it was unlikely, or virtually impossible, for an accident to occur that would lead to a giant crude oil spill and serious damage to beaches, fish and mammals.

At least 1.6 million gallons (6 million liters) of oil have spilled so far since the April 20 explosion that killed 11 workers, according to Coast Guard estimates. One expert said Friday that the volume of oil leaking from the well nearly 5,000 feet (1,500 meters) below the surface could actually be much higher, and that even more may escape if the drilling equipment continues to erode.

"The sort of occurrence that we've seen on the Deepwater Horizon is clearly unprecedented," BP spokesman David Nicholas told The Associated Press on Friday. "It's something that we have not experienced before ... a blowout at this depth."

Amid increased fingerpointing Friday, efforts sputtered to hold back the giant oil spill seeping into Louisiana's rich fishing grounds and nesting areas, while the government desperately cast about for new ideas for dealing with the growing environmental crisis. President Barack Obama halted any new offshore drilling projects unless rigs have new safeguards to prevent another disaster.

There isn't going to be a simple easy wipe it up clean up project. Crude oil is virtually impossible to get rid of. It's toxic as hell.

Again the loss of sealife is going to be tremendous and that cannot be replaced so maybe levy another fine on say some set amount per sea creature that washes ashore dead from the crappy oil they are caked with.

Imagine you are swimming along minding your own business and all of a sudden your lungs fill with this stuff.

Most people say they are empathetic but really are not.

Now for people out there that like fish - what do you think the price of seafood is going to go up to when half the ocean's creatures we call "seafood" are dead.

Supply and demand.

We are ruining our oceans and killing off massive amounts of sealife.

God, we have a island bigger than the size of Texas made up of plastic and other "garbage" floating around on the other side in the Pacific.

And it just keep getting worse.




[edit on 2-5-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by Karlhungis


I seem to recall that BP posted strong first quarter profits recently, LINK, just a shade over $6 Billion, how about BP forgoes all profits until the ecosystem has fully recovered.

Whether it be 1, 5 or 15 years, they need to learn a hard lesson.

Scumbags.....

Originally posted by Karlhungis
So honestly, with a track record like this and an entire ecosystem in the balance, what would a just penalty be for a company like this?

Death. Death of the company that is..

I am disgusted by this.

Why are you people acting like BP did this on purpose?

Accidents happen.

It doesn't mean we should start throwing other people's money around and imprisoning people.

Pathetic.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Karlhungis


BP executives and all businessmen and contract employees involved should each get an extra $100,000,000 bonus for the headache of having to work so hard to alleviate the sorrows of an Act of God. Without BP we would be in a lot of trouble. They deserve a round of applause for their constant efforts to make our lives better and more fulfilling than ever before in the history of the world.

What would an appropriate penalty be for radical original posts on ATS? I mean a guy can win $200,000,000 just for buying a lottery ticket. What does he accomplish? Is he a target of contempt?

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Why are you people acting like BP did this on purpose?

Accidents happen.

It doesn't mean we should start throwing other people's money around and imprisoning people.

Pathetic.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Exuberant1]

No it's pathetic that they will not be held accountable for this..

Perhaps a small bailout by the taxpayers to help with the burden of the cleanup cost is in order..

[edit on 2-5-2010 by broahes]