Raging Against Self Defense !

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posted on May, 1 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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I have been pondering this problem with people who believe that self defense is someone else's responsibility! That only the police and military should be allowed to own or carry firearms. In my research I came upon this article and found it interesting in its scope and in it's depth! I knew some of the reasons given but, here on ATS, I have heard so many opinions. Some informed others kneejerk on the subject. I hope many here take the time to read it. Specially those who still believe there is no reason for Americans or any other countries citizens to have the rights we here in the US have. Please, when responding, give us your opinion. Not those talking points of the anti-firearms groups.

Zindo



Raging Against Self Defense

Permission is granted to distribute this article in its entirety, so long as full copyright information and full contact information is given for JPFO.
Copyright © 2000 Sarah Thompson, MD
Published by
Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc.
P.O. Box 270143
Hartford, WI 53027
Phone (262) 673-9745
www.jpfo.org

Excerpt:

Raging Against Self Defense:
A Psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality
By Sarah Thompson, M.D.
righter@therighter.com


"You don't need to have a gun; the police will protect you."

"If people carry guns, there will be murders over parking spaces and neighborhood basketball games."

"I'm a pacifist. Enlightened, spiritually aware people shouldn't own guns."

"I'd rather be raped than have some redneck militia type try to rescue me."
How often have you heard these statements from misguided advocates of victim disarmament, or even woefully uninformed relatives and neighbors? Why do people cling so tightly to these beliefs, in the face of incontrovertible evidence that they are wrong? Why do they get so furiously angry when gun owners point out that their arguments are factually and logically incorrect?

How can you communicate with these people who seem to be out of touch with reality and rational thought?

One approach to help you deal with anti-gun people is to understand their psychological processes. Once you understand why these people behave so irrationally, you can communicate more effectively with them.


Defense Mechanisms
Projection

About a year ago I received an e-mail from a member of a local Jewish organization. The author, who chose to remain anonymous, insisted that people have no right to carry firearms because he didn't want to be murdered if one of his neighbors had a "bad day". (I don't know that this person is a "he", but I'm assuming so for the sake of simplicity.) I responded by asking him why he thought his neighbors wanted to murder him, and, of course, got no response. The truth is that he's statistically more likely to be murdered by a neighbor who doesn't legally carry a firearm1 and more likely to be shot accidentally by a law enforcement officer.


1:
How does my correspondent "know" that his neighbors would murder him if they had guns? He doesn't. What he was really saying was that if he had a gun, he might murder his neighbors if he had a bad day, or if they took his parking space, or played their stereos too loud.
2:
This is an example of what mental health professionals call projection - unconsciously projecting one's own unacceptable feelings onto other people, so that one doesn't have to own them.

3 In some cases, the intolerable feelings are projected not onto a person, but onto an inanimate object, such as a gun so that the projector believes the gun itself will murder him.

4:
Projection is a defense mechanism. Defense mechanisms are unconscious psychological mechanisms that protect us from feelings that we cannot consciously accept.

5:
They operate without our awareness, so that we don't have to deal consciously with "forbidden" feelings and impulses. Thus, if you asked my e-mail correspondent if he really wanted to murder his neighbors, he would vehemently deny it, and insist that other people want to kill him.

Projection is a particularly insidious defense mechanism, because it not only prevents a person from dealing with his own feelings, it also creates a world where he perceives everyone else as directing his own hostile feelings back at him.

6:
All people have violent, and even homicidal, impulses. For example, it's common to hear people say "I'd like to kill my boss", or "If you do that one more time I'm going to kill you." They don't actually mean that they're going to, or even would, kill anyone; they're simply acknowledging anger and frustration. All of us suffer from fear and feelings of helplessness and vulnerability. Most people can acknowledge feelings of rage, fear, frustration, jealousy, etc. without having to act on them in inappropriate and destructive ways.

Some people, however, are unable consciously to admit that they have such "unacceptable" emotions. They may have higher than average levels of rage, frustration, or fear. Perhaps they fear that if they acknowledge the hostile feelings, they will lose control and really will hurt someone. They may believe that "good people" never have such feelings, when in fact all people have them.

This is especially true now that education "experts" commonly prohibit children from expressing negative emotions or aggression. Instead of learning that such emotions are normal, but that destructive behavior needs to be controlled, children now learn that feelings of anger are evil, dangerous and subject to severe punishment.

7:
To protect themselves from "being bad", they are forced to use defense mechanisms to avoid owning their own normal emotions. Unfortunately, using such defense mechanisms inappropriately can endanger their mental health; children need to learn how to deal appropriately with reality, not how to avoid it.8

(This discussion of psychological mechanisms applies to the average person who is uninformed, or misinformed, about firearms and self-defense. It does not apply to the anti- gun ideologue. Fanatics like Charles Schumer know the facts about firearms, and advocate victim disarmament consciously and willfully in order to gain political power. This psychological analysis does not apply to them.)

More at the LINK!




posted on May, 1 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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It's kind of hard to shove someone into a boxcar when they have an autoloading 7.62 rifle.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by ZindoDoone
 


I'm with you. It is fear and lack of self-confidence I think. I know a lot of people that are anti-self defense and it seems to stem from a world view where there is them, the hip socialist, and everyone else, the Walmart shoppers. They distrust and despise the Walmart shpppers and think they are all ignorant low-IQ rednecks that would shoot one another over any number of innocent confrontations and therefore they are more likely to be shot by a law abiding civilian than by an actual criminal.

Of course, knowing the guy I sort of agreed with him - he certainly had more to fear from law abiding Americans.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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I'm sorry

Both sides STFU

if you want to carry, carry

if you don't, don't

Just do it!



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


If it were that simple there would be no need to fight the anti-firearm attacks we see every day here in the US and the world. It's people so scared of their fellow citizens who refuse to become victims of the scum our government keeps turning back into the streets. They are the ones that have so loudly proclaimed their rights to be safe from the law abiding but expect to be protected 24/7. An idea that can never be accomplished!
Zindo



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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As a member from Australia, I though I would share how much "protection" or really lack of we get from police here. I live in a small town, we don't expect much in the way of services, but most think at least one or two police officers assigned to our area is not asking too much. The problem is they fudge the figures, the police are assigned and live here, and then at certain times, the most critical - mainly Friday and Saturday nights they leave us high and dry and catch a few drunks and speeding drivers in the nearby city, leaving us unprotected and the nearest officer nearly an hour away.

Think about it for a minute - they have taken our guns away so we have to rely on them for protection, so when some loony cracks up and start shooting his illegal weapon, or a drugged out maniac with a knife want my stuff, what do I do? Ask them to wait on my couch for an hour till the police arrive? How much damage could someone do in an hour? Think about that in your big cities the next time you curse the police because they didn't arrive in a couple of minutes.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by Dragon12
As a member from Australia, I though I would share how much "protection" or really lack of we get from police here. I live in a small town, we don't expect much in the way of services, but most think at least one or two police officers assigned to our area is not asking too much. The problem is they fudge the figures, the police are assigned and live here, and then at certain times, the most critical - mainly Friday and Saturday nights they leave us high and dry and catch a few drunks and speeding drivers in the nearby city, leaving us unprotected and the nearest officer nearly an hour away.

Think about it for a minute - they have taken our guns away so we have to rely on them for protection, so when some loony cracks up and start shooting his illegal weapon, or a drugged out maniac with a knife want my stuff, what do I do? Ask them to wait on my couch for an hour till the police arrive? How much damage could someone do in an hour? Think about that in your big cities the next time you curse the police because they didn't arrive in a couple of minutes.


agreed, you need a gun!

Machete's inspire fear , although they are useless beyond a meter.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 11:10 PM
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Thanks Janky Red, but Machetes, or any other sword like item is also illegal, as is carry any sort of knife, even a pocket knife. If caught, it will be confiscated and you will be charged.

Maybe that druggy with a knife will just go away if I ask him nicely?



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by Dragon12
Thanks Janky Red, but Machetes, or any other sword like item is also illegal, as is carry any sort of knife, even a pocket knife. If caught, it will be confiscated and you will be charged.

Maybe that druggy with a knife will just go away if I ask him nicely?


Posts like this are quite sobering. Freedoms that most in the U.S. take for granted are treated as crimes in most parts of the world.
Not being able to carry even a pocket knife? Are you allowed any self defense options like tasers or pepper spray?
This is why I wont give one inch when it comes to gun control.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 12:45 AM
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Posts like this are quite sobering. Freedoms that most in the U.S. take for granted are treated as crimes in most parts of the world.
Not being able to carry even a pocket knife? Are you allowed any self defense options like tasers or pepper spray?
This is why I wont give one inch when it comes to gun control.


No Tasers are definitely illegal. Pepper spray, I'm not sure of, but I think is illegal as well. Certainly the stronger ones are.

A few murders in my area in the last few years, but thankfully not in my town has certainly made me think twice. This used to be a safe place, now I'm not so sure.

One murder in particular made me question my and my families safety. It involved the father of a female police officer. The policewoman left her kids with him and her mother. When she got home she found her mother and kids murdered and her father took to her with an axe. She thankfully escaped next door with head wounds, but the police only found him days later when a retired police officer who owned a motel where he was staying recognised him and he was captured.

It makes you think if he decided to go next door, how would they have stopped him? And if we are not allowed anything to defend ourselves with, why so few police, and to let him escape for days?



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 05:40 AM
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Yep, here in the good old Uk, no Guns, No Tasers/ stun guns, no knives etc. (only the criminals seem to have these!) People can and do get prosecuted for carrying an "offensive weapon" if they have a baseball bat in their car! Even worse, friends of mine (I ride motorbikes) have been prosecuted for carrying "Multi tools" on their belts, because they have a locking blade, while arguing it is a "Tool", irrelevant, UK knife law states it is illegal to carry a locking knife of any size, and they were successfully prosecuted for "carrying an offensive weapon!"

In the UK you are expected to call the police, even after someone has stabbed/ shot, or beat you to a pulp!

I have found a solution for me though, I have trained in Martial arts for years and my house has many weapons which i legally can own for my training purposes, and I have American Bulldogs (never been burgled in my life... thanks Bob! (see pic)),



but still, if someone comes at me with a gun, I'm the first to say "The only defense against a gun, is another gun!". I wish we had the right to defend our homes like you guys in the US! I really do envy you!

My instructor has a favorite saying when asked about what to do when facing a "life threatening" situation...... "BETTER TO BE EXPLAINING TO TWELVE, THAN LYING UNDER SIX!".... and I couldn't agree more,

Respect

Peace

p.s., I think that old lady in the US who shot at them guys trying to break into her home this week is now a LEGEND, GOOD FOR HER!

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Myrddin Wyllt]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Myrddin Wyllt]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Myrddin Wyllt]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by Myrddin Wyllt
 


"My instructor has a favorite saying when asked about what to do when facing a "life threatening" situation...... "BETTER TO BE EXPLAINING TO TWELVE, THAN LYING UNDER SIX!".... and I couldn't agree more."

Here, that saying is "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six!" The comments here are about what I expected. Those from Europe or the Pacific Rim, are in dire need of revamping their government as much as we are here. Common rights of citizens to protect themselves should be paramount to a free society. You'd think the damned bureaucrats would realize that live tax payers are needed not dead or injured and infirmed victims. It is better for the countries they live in.

Zindo


[edit on 5/2/2010 by ZindoDoone]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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It's called a monopoly of force, states crave it so they can force us to do what they want.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Hey, in an enlightened prison society, only the jailers have the right to defense. /s

Oh well, the world is but just a stage, and the show must go on.

Cops and the Bad Boys, what you gonna do when they come for you.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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Resurrecting this thread. It's time again.

Here is the link from the OP in case you want to know what's going on.


www.vcdl.org...



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 09:34 PM
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edit on 8-1-2013 by Rikku because: old thread didnt notice.






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