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HELP PLEASE! Attacks on Dr. Myhill, only doctor I found who knows how to cure CFS

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posted on May, 1 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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I am outraged! On April 29th 2010 UK Dr. Myhill was found guilty by a GMC hearing reminding me of the procedures in a totalitarian state.

Here is what Dr. Myhill says about that hearing (and remember in what spirit she does her work when you read her words):

The GMC's full Verdict will be put up here Friday April 30th. Read it. It is a masterpiece of obfuscation and spin. The GMC made no charges, presented no case and ignored findings of fact. Briefly the verdict says of me: “The circumstances surrounding this case relate to concerns regarding your clinical and professional practice, and concerns regarding your website, your promotion of treatments and consequently your potential failure to recognise and work within the limits of your competence”. My comment: No facts. No concerns. No failures. No patient put at risk. No patient harmed.

*SNIP*

My story
In 1996 I contracted a disease which pretty much destroyed my life. I spent thousands of dollars for medical help, but nothing worked. It took over 10 years for me to recover to a point where I could live a more or less normal life again. I did this all on my own, with an iron will and information I found on the Internet from fellow sufferers.

At the beginning of 2010 the same disease struck again. I was devastated and hopeless. I just could not see how I would survive 10 more years of fighting a disease that no doctor understands. But this time I was extremely lucky and stumbled over Dr Myhill's website. For the first time I had the impression that somebody knew about the cause of my disease. I followed the advice of Dr. Myhill's website. IT WORKED! Within TWO WEEKS I was back to work and fully functional! You cannot truly appreciate this unless you yourself have suffered from a disease over 10 years and then suddenly find a CURE.

Dr Myhill's work on mitochondrial exhaustion is ground-breaking and science at its best. Coming from a scientific background myself, I was always disappointed by the lack of solid knowledge in biochemistry of the doctors I consulted. Dr Myhill is different. She KNOWS her sciences!

Mod Edit: ATS And Activism – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 1/5/2010 by Mirthful Me]




posted on May, 1 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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After reading over sources other than your own (all of yours were pro-Myhill sites), the case isn't as black and white as it seemed. The GMC had no problem with Dr. Myhill treating her CFS patients with thyroid hormone. What they DID have a problem with was Dr. Myhill supporting (and prescribing) unproven, unsupported therapies that had the potential to cause harm in her patients. Had she simply waited until the therapies were researched (or even researched them herself and provided the data, rather than throwing a tantrum and refusing to follow medical law) there would never have been a problem.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by VneZonyDostupa
 


For clarification: I never had personal contact with Dr. Myhill. I simply found her website, read it and got helped for free. I am not trying to do a personal favor for Dr. Myhill, in fact she does not even know that I exist.

@VneZonyDostupa:

You seem to be related to the medical field, so may I ask you: What help would you have recommended to me as a person suffering from CFS? But it must be something more than "see a doctor". I saw at least five doctors and spent a small fortune without getting substantial help. So do you know of any specialists, websites, books etc. that would offer the help you would deem appropriate for people like me?

I am an engineer. In our profession authority does not count much. What counts is results and whether the machine works or not. This is for anybody to see and test. For me the solutions of Dr. Myhill worked, nothing else did. So she is a genius. Whether she has proven that to the establishment or not is secondary to me.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:18 PM
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Here is an example of the exceptional work of Dr. Myhill:



Chronic fatigue syndrome is the symptom caused by mitochondrial failure

The job of mitochondria is to supply energy in the form of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). This is the universal currency of energy. It can be used for all sorts of biochemical jobs from muscle contraction to hormone production. When mitochondria fail, this results in poor supply of ATP, so cells go slow because they do not have the energy supply to function at a normal speed. This means that all bodily functions go slow.

Every cell in the body can be affected

The following explains what happens inside each cell:

ATP (3 phosphates) is converted to ADP (2 phosphates) with the release of energy for work. ADP passes into the mitochondria where ATP is remade by oxidative phosphorylation (ie a phosphate group is stuck on). ATP recycles approximately every 10 seconds in a normal person - if this goes slow, then the cell goes slow and so the person goes slow and clinically has poor stamina ie CFS.

Problems arise when the system is stressed. If the CFS sufferer asks for energy faster than he can supply it, (and actually most CFS sufferers are doing this most of the time!) ATP is converted to ADP faster than it can be recycled. This means there is a build up of ADP. Some ADP is inevitably shunted into adenosine monophosphate (AMP -1 phosphate). But this creates a real problem, indeed a metabolic disaster, because AMP, largely speaking, cannot be recycled and is lost in urine.

Indeed this is the biological basis of poor stamina. One can only go at the rate at which mitochondria can produce ATP. If mitochondria go slow, stamina is poor.

If ATP levels drop as a result of leakage of AMP, the body then has to make brand new ATP. ATP can be made very quickly from a sugar D-ribose, but D-ribose is only slowly made from glucose (via the pentose phosphate shunt for those clever biochemists out there!). This takes anything from one to four days. So this is the biological basis for delayed fatigue.

However there is another problem. If the body is very short of ATP, it can make a very small amount of ATP directly from glucose by converting it into lactic acid. This is exactly what many CFS sufferers do and indeed we know that CFS sufferers readily switch into anaerobic metabolism. However this results in two serious problems - lactic acid quickly builds up especially in muscles to cause pain, heaviness, aching and soreness ("lactic acid burn"), secondly no glucose is available in order to make D-ribose! So new ATP cannot be easily made when you are really run down. Recovery takes days!

When mitochondria function well, as the person rests following exertion, lactic acid is quickly converted back to glucose (via-pyruvate) and the lactic burn disappears. But this is an energy requiring process! Glucose to lactic acid produces two molecules of ATP for the body to use, but the reverse process requires six molecules of ATP. If there is no ATP available, and this is of course what happens as mitochondria fail, then the lactic acid may persist for many minutes, or indeed hours causing great pain. (for the biochemists, this reverse process takes place in the liver and is called the Cori cycle).



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:23 PM
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And here is an example of treatment advice Dr. Myhill gives. This is just an overview, she gives specific details on her website. But it shows her general approach.



Treatment package for failing mitochondria

The biological basis of treatment is therefore explained:

* Pace - do not use up energy faster than your mitos can supply it.
* Feed the mitochondria - supply the raw material necessary for the mitochondria to heal themselves and work efficiently. This means feeding the mitos correctly so they can heal and repair.
* Address the underlying causes as to why mitochondria have been damaged. This must also be put in place to prevent ongoing damage to mitos. In order of importance this involves:
* Pacing activities to avoid undue stress to mitos
* Getting excellent sleep so mitos can repair
* Excellent nutrition with respect to:
o taking a good range of micronutrient supplements
o stabilising blood sugar levels
o identifying allergies to foods
* Detoxifying to unload heavy metals, pesticides, drugs, social poisons (alcohol,tobacco etc) and volatile organic compounds, all of which which poison mitos.
* Addressing the common problem of hyperventilation
* Address the secondary damage caused by mitochondrial failure such as immune disturbances resulting in allergies and autoimmunity, poor digestive function, hormone gland failure, slow liver detoxification.

And now for a bit of good news! AMP can be recycled, but slowly. Interestingly, the enzyme which does this (cyclic AMP) is activated by caffeine! So the perfect pick-me-up for CFS sufferers could be a real black organic coffee with a teaspoon of D-ribose!





[edit on 1-5-2010 by SacredLore]

[edit on 1-5-2010 by SacredLore]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:32 PM
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Here is the link to Dr. Myhill's website from where I copied the two previous quotes:
CFS - The Central Cause: Mitochondrial Failure

(Sorry, can't seem to edit that link into the previous post).



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by SacredLore
 


s&f to you SacredLore, i am a health professional and really appreciated your postings. i will certainly study it.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by SacredLore

You seem to be related to the medical field, so may I ask you: What help would you have recommended to me as a person suffering from CFS?


It depends entirely on your case. CFS is actually a misnomer, as it's a collection of MANY symptoms/causes that cause when is essentially a low-grade inflammatory response. This often causes sluggishness/fatigue. I've only seen a few CFS patients, personally, probably half a dozen if I had to guess the number. Two I recommended a better diet and vitamin regimen, which is fully endorsed by the CDC, and the others had their most severe symptoms treated temporarily while awaiting evaluation at a sleep center. Beyond that, they were in the hands of physicians far more capable of treating them than myself. I don't specialize in those sorts of disorders, as they are typically endocrine in nature.


But it must be something more than "see a doctor". I saw at least five doctors and spent a small fortune without getting substantial help. So do you know of any specialists, websites, books etc. that would offer the help you would deem appropriate for people like me?


The best I can tell you is to try anything that has been deemed safe and somewhat effective. Listening to people who offer unproven and unsupported treatments can be harmful, as there isn't any data on side effects. As I stated above, I've seen treatments ranging from diet/exercise and vitamins to sleep studies and therapy. It all depends on your particular symptom profile. It could be something as simple as a thyroid or other hormone imbalance, or it could be indicative of a much larger problem.


I am an engineer. In our profession authority does not count much. What counts is results and whether the machine works or not. This is for anybody to see and test.


Unfortunately, "see and test" doesn't apply in medicine, where the "test" could very well harm or kill a patient. That doesn't seem like a very logical risk when you're "testing" a new treatment. There are appropriate means of testing new therapies in increasingly complex animals and then increasingly larger pools of humans, allowing us to understand the pharmacodynamics and pharmcokinetics of the therapy.

I absolutely understand that when you are ill, you will try anything that seems to hold promise, and I certainly can't fault anyone for that. What I *can* fault someone for, though, is using that same desire to treat as a means to circumvent safety mechanisms built into the medical community. The safety of the general patient population comes before any single patient's desires/needs.


For me the solutions of Dr. Myhill worked, nothing else did. So she is a genius. Whether she has proven that to the establishment or not is secondary to me.


And I have absolutely no problem with you using her treatments. That doesn't change the fact, however, that she illegally used her authority to push treatments that were unproven and unsupported, which is both a violation of her medical license and the laws of the UK.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
It depends entirely on your case. CFS is actually a misnomer, as it's a collection of MANY symptoms/causes that cause when is essentially a low-grade inflammatory response. This often causes sluggishness/fatigue. I've only seen a few CFS patients, personally, probably half a dozen if I had to guess the number. Two I recommended a better diet and vitamin regimen, which is fully endorsed by the CDC, and the others had their most severe symptoms treated temporarily while awaiting evaluation at a sleep center.


Thank you very much. This certainly is sound advice, helpful also for others, who have CFS and read this thread.

My main symptoms were:
* Low-grade fever (37.5 Celsius) in the afternoon
* T4/T8 cells out of balance (the doctors only found this after I told them to test it, found the information on the Internet)
* Very low blood pressure, regulated down instead of up when standing up
* Ongoing (for years) flew-like symptoms and headaches
* Sleeping difficulties
* Cognitive difficulties such as poor concentration, poor short-term memory
* Fatigue (obviously :-)

The onset was both times triggered by a virus infection (influenza). Thankfully I never had any muscle pains, which seem common in others.

As I have mentioned, I feel cured through Dr. Myhill's recommendations. The above symptoms are gone. I cannot exclude a relapse (hey, I might even die in this lifetime :-) and your advice regarding diet, vitamin regimen and especially sleep pattern is very important. It really is my responsibility to not over-exhaust my body again to the point of breakdown.

I think the key is mitochondrial failure. What is very interesting is that this also affects the cells of the heart, which explains a lot of the symptoms.



Unfortunately, "see and test" doesn't apply in medicine, where the "test" could very well harm or kill a patient. That doesn't seem like a very logical risk when you're "testing" a new treatment. There are appropriate means of testing new therapies in increasingly complex animals and then increasingly larger pools of humans, allowing us to understand the pharmacodynamics and pharmcokinetics of the therapy.

I absolutely understand that when you are ill, you will try anything that seems to hold promise, and I certainly can't fault anyone for that. What I *can* fault someone for, though, is using that same desire to treat as a means to circumvent safety mechanisms built into the medical community. The safety of the general patient population comes before any single patient's desires/needs.


You are right, of course. After years of suffering and dragging myself to work feeling dead sick I was willing to try ANYTHING. I did indeed experiment with actually dangerous stuff that I am not even going to mention here. But you have a point - while it is my problem what I do with my body, a doctor's responsibility is bigger.



And I have absolutely no problem with you using her treatments. That doesn't change the fact, however, that she illegally used her authority to push treatments that were unproven and unsupported, which is both a violation of her medical license and the laws of the UK.


If you have links to pages that explain exactly what part of her treatment is considered risky, I would appreciate that. I may even try to contact her and see if I can change her mind about this. But I hope it is not about B12 shots. That would be absurd: A doctor in our country just offered them to my wife. They surely are a safe and regular practice.

I am convinced that Dr. Myhill has very good intentions and a lot of effective help to offer. Her patients love her and she must be drowning in work. So one has to understand her problem as well - she may not even have the time and surely not the resources to get her procedures approved. It would be good if the UK government would fund the necessary studies and if she could continue her work.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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From what I could gather (and I apologize I don't have more specific information at the moment, I'm bouncing between this site and dictations...fun stuff, let me tell you
), the main crux of the GMC's argument was that the "mitochondrial damage" idea holds no water scientifically, and I agree with the GMC.

I'll try to keep this fairly simple, but can explain in greater detail if you want me to in a subsequent post. Basically, yes, Dr. Myhill is correct when she states that the mitochondria is the "energy factor" of our cells. What she is either forgetting (or perhaps never learned) is that damage to the mitochondria that would prevent it from producing energy ALWAYS (and I literally mean always, as in 100% of the time, which is rare in science) leads to cell death. The only things that can lead to the mitochondria failing to produce energy are interference with cytochrome proteins (the mechanism of cyanide poisons) or disruption/damage to the mitochondrial membrane. While damage to the membrane sounds like a minor or temporary thing, in all actuality, it is always fatal for the cell in question. The mitochondria contains a plethora of apoptosis proteins that leak out anytime there is damage to the mitochondria's membrane integrity, and these proteins then activate caspases in the cell's cytoplasm (as well as cross-linking lipids in the cell's membrane). These actions lead to destruction of the nucleus and cell death.

Now, if this mitochondrial damage were widespread enough to produce fatigue in an individual, you would be looking at cell death in number large enough to cause organ failure and visible areas of inflammation and necrosis, which is why I don't buy the "mitochondrial damage" argument.

I do agree with you, though, that further study is needed. Many good therapies were discovered while studying a completely different concept. Dr. Myhill might be wrong on the actual cause of CFS, but that doesn't mean her therapies aren't treating the actual cause by sheer coincidence.

Not to mention, you always have to do a double-blind crossover study to rule out the placebo effect, which is an entirely real and confounding variable in any pharmcologic study.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
From what I could gather (and I apologize I don't have more specific information at the moment, I'm bouncing between this site and dictations...fun stuff, let me tell you
), the main crux of the GMC's argument was that the "mitochondrial damage" idea holds no water scientifically, and I agree with the GMC.


Thank you very much for taking the time to explain about mitochondria. (And I hope you could finish the dictations :-)

I think we can really agree that further study is justified.

I see the following possibilities:

1) The placebo effect is on her side. I once read that 20% of the sick people are cured if you simply impress them enough. Be it with a colored pill, a magic potion or a machine with a lot of blinking lights.
Personally I don't think it is (only) that in the case of Dr. Myhill. Too many patients rallying to her help. And from my own experience I know that something has improved on a physiological level.

2) Dr. Myhill has a working model that explains certain mechanisms well enough to develop a treatment. But it is just a model and not the full truth. Something like the old model of the atom as developed by Niels Bohr.
This is the most likely explanation for me. Her treatment seems to be aimed at solving the problem that "ATP is converted to ADP faster than it can be recycled". I am no expert in this field, but this is exactly how I felt with CFS: The body is not able to produce enough energy.

3) Dr. Myhill is spot on with her theory.
I still would not rule out that option. Her main interest seems to be the treatment of patients and not scientific studies. So she might simply have been misunderstood. From what I understand, she does not say that mitochondria are actually damaged. It is more like the example you give of cyanide poisons interfering with cytochrome proteins, which would hinder the function of mitochondria. What do you think of the following statement?
"Problems arise when the system is stressed. If the CFS sufferer asks for energy faster than he can supply it, (and actually most CFS sufferers are doing this most of the time!) ATP is converted to ADP faster than it can be recycled. This means there is a build up of ADP. Some ADP is inevitably shunted into adenosine monophosphate (AMP -1 phosphate). But this creates a real problem, indeed a metabolic disaster, because AMP, largely speaking, cannot be recycled and is lost in urine."
I just believed her this, because it seems to make sense. But is this founded in actual science? Or could it at least be a new discovery that cannot be completely ruled out?

The GMC has a tremendous responsibility and a very difficult job. They must protect the public from charlatans, but at the same time must be able to recognize valuable contributions from strong-willed non-conformist individuals.

It should also be mentioned that the UK GMC does seem to have its problems:
GMC Killer Doctor Nepotism Puts Lives At Risk.
The GMC must make sure that all their members live up to the high ethical standards required for such a position.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by orangutang
reply to post by SacredLore
 


s&f to you SacredLore, i am a health professional and really appreciated your postings. i will certainly study it.


Thank you very much for the acknowledgment! I am very happy to see that a health professional is having a look at the material of Dr. Myhill.

I can honestly say that the advice on Dr. Myhill's website has helped me tremendously. I do not see a danger if this is used by a responsible practitioner. On the contrary, this might well be the solution that the millions of CFS/ME sufferers have been waiting for.

I have made a backup copy of Dr. Myhill's website in the meantime. Just in case :-)



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by SacredLore


Thank you very much for taking the time to explain about mitochondria. (And I hope you could finish the dictations :-)


Not a problem at all, and the dictations never end =P The beauty of modern medicine.


I think we can really agree that further study is justified.


Absolutely.


I see the following possibilities:

1) The placebo effect is on her side.


I think this is definitely a contributing, if not majority, factor in this case. The placebo effect is both real and powerful. There have even been a few studies that showed simply taking extra time to talk with the patient and address their questions has a positive impact on recovery. Neurochemistry is a potent modulator of the immune response, definitely.


2) Dr. Myhill has a working model that explains certain mechanisms well enough to develop a treatment. But it is just a model and not the full truth.


I could see this being a realistic possibility. She may have found an effective treatment by pure serendipity, but attributes it to the wrong cause. We have plenty of drugs that work wonderfully, but have an unknown or unclear mechanism of action, such as some antidepressants.


3) Dr. Myhill is spot on with her theory.


I still have a hard time accepting this, as her explanation just don't seem rational to me, though until she performs studies and writes some more papers on the concept, I can't say for sure what she is trying to explain, as it may be lost in the attempt to explain it.


What do you think of the following statement?
"Problems arise when the system is stressed. If the CFS sufferer asks for energy faster than he can supply it, (and actually most CFS sufferers are doing this most of the time!) ATP is converted to ADP faster than it can be recycled. This means there is a build up of ADP. Some ADP is inevitably shunted into adenosine monophosphate (AMP -1 phosphate). But this creates a real problem, indeed a metabolic disaster, because AMP, largely speaking, cannot be recycled and is lost in urine


I would say this, especially the last sentence, is absolutely not true. AMP is a critical component of the ATP regeneration cycle and most certainly is not excreted. ATP is a very unstable molecule (hence the reason we store it in ATP/creatine forms in muscle), but AMP is much more stable, allowing us to utilize it as a relatively lower-energy storage form.

I do, however, think there is some truth in the concept of ADP/ATP imbalance. There are a few conditions (which I can't recall off the top of my head at the moment) where this occurs, and it certainly creates a feeling of fatigue. More notable, however, is its effect on tissue. An increased ADP:ATP ratio would cause atrophy and cell death in some tissues. Such an imbalance would be systemic, rather than localized, as well, unless the poison responsible were targeted to a given tissue.

So, basically, we reach the same point we were at to begin with...we need more data!



The GMC has a tremendous responsibility and a very difficult job. They must protect the public from charlatans, but at the same time must be able to recognize valuable contributions from strong-willed non-conformist individuals.


I agree entirely. As far as I can see, the only problem the GMC has was that she was violating a common term in all medical licensure, that is, you cannot legally provide a therapy that has not been studied to at least some extent. If the therapy is later shown to work, then yes, it stinks for the people who had to wait. However, if the studies show it doesn't work or is harmful in the longterm, then they have saved people the time and suffering it may have caused. It's a tough situation, for sure, but it boils down to the "needs of the many versus the needs of the few" mantra.


It should also be mentioned that the UK GMC does seem to have its problems:
GMC Killer Doctor Nepotism Puts Lives At Risk.
The GMC must make sure that all their members live up to the high ethical standards required for such a position.



I agree entirely. Ethical standards are paramount in the medical field, and it is heartbreaking to see such thigns occuring.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by VneZonyDostupa
 

VneZonyDostupa,
Your posts have been Extremely informative and well-worthy the claps and stars given with regards SacredLore's inquiries.
Top Stuff!
Honestly.

The Beauty of the Community, if you will.


I, on the other hand, have a few personal experiences with individuals "professing" the whole Chronic Fatigue Syndrome "catch-all" as a means to further "self-medicate" that which ultimately seemed little more than underlying psychological and/or emotional issues.

Stress, Anxiety, Inability to cope, if you will, etc...

Not saying that's the vast majority, or that SacredLore's "claims" are one and the same ...

I guess I just get a bit perturbed by the seemingly increasing trend of "catch-all", "umbrella" type "illnesses" which "require" and/or are prescribed medications at the drop of a hat .. often times with little or no demonstrable Physical need or requirement.

Not to say their aren't legitimate cases where the individual actually needs such and experiences a better quality of life as a result thereof ...

... it's just the seeming "blanket" approach to "script writing" that boggles this mind.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by 12m8keall2c
 


Aww...you're making me blush! Thanks for the compliments! I truly do enjoy posting here as a means of flexing my mind a bit on issues I don't normally come across in day-to-day life/work.

As for CFS as a catch-all diagnosis, yes, I agree that this occurs quite often. Similar arguments have been made for irritable bowel syndrome and this nonsense known as "restless leg syndrome" (I swear, I cringe anytime I have a patient tell me about this contrived, pharmaceutical company created "illness").

That being said, even if the symptoms of CFS are purely psychological in nature, there should be some root cause, whether they be psychosomatic or neurochemical. I'm truly interested in any treatment that seems to help (even if it comes from an English doctor who wants to buck the system), I just want the data first.

Again, thanks so much for the kind words!



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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hi sacredlore, could you please tell me what you did to cure yourselfof cfs in two weeks? thankyou



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by knackers323
hi sacredlore, could you please tell me what you did to cure yourselfof cfs in two weeks? thankyou


Hi knackers323!

Sorry, I don't have much time, but wanted to give you a short answer.

I have essentially followed this advice of Dr. Myhill.
Please read it yourself.

Some very important points to consider:
- All my life I never drank alcohol regularly, never smoked, never took any mind altering drugs (neither street drugs nor psychiatric)
- Before my relapse beginning 2010 I was in good physical shape, doing daily exercises and sports. I am not overweight.
- I followed much of Dr. Myhill's advice with the exception of all pharmaceutical products. All the stuff I used I bought at iherb.com, no prescription drugs.

Pay special attention to regaining sufficient and healthy sleep. Melatonin helped me with this (but I never took it longer than two days in series). Avoid artificial light (includes TV and Computer!) right before going to sleep.

I used some antiviral herbs in addition, because they helped me earlier on. I also used a special Magnesium product.

If you suffer from CFS yourself or want to help somebody with this condition please U2U me an email address. I will mail you all details when I have more time to write them up.


[edit on 4-5-2010 by SacredLore]

[edit on 4-5-2010 by SacredLore]



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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hi sacredlore, I cant yet send u2u but please contact me at [email address removed] Thanks very much for your help.




[mod edit]
Please do not post your own personal information. You should be aware that any personally identifiable information you submit here can be read, collected, or used by other users of these forums, and could be used to send you unsolicited messages. We are not responsible for the personally identifiable information you choose to submit, and may remove it at our discretion.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on May, 5 2010 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by knackers323
hi sacredlore, I cant yet send u2u but please contact me at Thanks very much for your help.


OK, I have copied your email address and will write you on the weekend.
Better edit your post and remove your email address now so you don't attract spam.



posted on May, 9 2010 @ 01:48 AM
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@VneZonyDostupa:

Thanks for taking the time to reply, your feedback is very much appreciated.


Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa
Not a problem at all, and the dictations never end =P The beauty of modern medicine.


So even medicine seems to have its less glamorous moments :-)





Originally posted by SacredLore
What do you think of the following statement?
"Problems arise when the system is stressed. If the CFS sufferer asks for energy faster than he can supply it, (and actually most CFS sufferers are doing this most of the time!) ATP is converted to ADP faster than it can be recycled. This means there is a build up of ADP. Some ADP is inevitably shunted into adenosine monophosphate (AMP -1 phosphate). But this creates a real problem, indeed a metabolic disaster, because AMP, largely speaking, cannot be recycled and is lost in urine


I would say this, especially the last sentence, is absolutely not true. AMP is a critical component of the ATP regeneration cycle and most certainly is not excreted. ATP is a very unstable molecule (hence the reason we store it in ATP/creatine forms in muscle), but AMP is much more stable, allowing us to utilize it as a relatively lower-energy storage form.

I do, however, think there is some truth in the concept of ADP/ATP imbalance. There are a few conditions (which I can't recall off the top of my head at the moment) where this occurs, and it certainly creates a feeling of fatigue. More notable, however, is its effect on tissue. An increased ADP:ATP ratio would cause atrophy and cell death in some tissues. Such an imbalance would be systemic, rather than localized, as well, unless the poison responsible were targeted to a given tissue.

So, basically, we reach the same point we were at to begin with...we need more data!



We are in full agreement here. More research is needed to provide more data.

Interestingly enough, Dr. Myhill proposes a test for CFS. As you see some validity in the concept of ADP/ATP imbalance, do you think that this test could provide a deeper insight into CFS? Do the following statements make scientific sense in your opinion or are they at odds with proven facts?

A Vital Test in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

The central problem of chronic fatigue syndrome is mitochondrial failure resulting in poor production of ATP. ATP is the currency of energy in the body and if the production of this is impaired then all cellular processes will go slow. It is not good enough to measure absolute levels of ATP in cells since this will simply reflect how well rested the sufferer is. The perfect test is to measure the rate at which ATP is recycled in cells and this test has now been developed by John McLaren Howard. He calls it "ATP profiles". It is a test of mitochondrial function.

Not only does this test measure the rate at which ATP is made, it also looks at where the problem lies. Production of ATP is highly dependent on magnesium status and the first part of the test studies this aspect.

The second aspect of the test measures the efficiency with which ATP is made from ADP. If this is abnormal then this could be as a result of magnesium deficiency, of low levels of Co-enzyme Q10, low levels of vitamin B3 (NAD) or of acetyl L-carnitine.

The third possibility is that the protein which transports ATP and ADP across mitochondrial membrane is impaired and this is also measured.

The joy of the ATP profiles test is that we now have an objective test of chronic fatigue syndrome which clearly shows this illness has a physical basis.



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