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Can Arizona Declare War?

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posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by one4all
You simply hunt the criminals down and americans like that idea,ask the mexican government for permission to cooperate with Mexican law enforcement ,then hunt em down and let the federales shoot em dead.

Shoot em all dead and you save both mexico and America time and energy.


"Shoot em all dead"? That's your solution? Just send out hit squads to take out the criminals. This isn't Nazi Germany where we just kill the "undesirables". Criminals may have broken our laws but they are still people and no person deserves to just be hunted and gunned down.




posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


"no person deserves to just be hunted and gunned down"

That is percisely what is happening to law abiding american citizens in border states. And the plan for co-operative police actions have not worked in fact they have failed miserably, there have been many instances of corruption within the Mexican governement and their law enforcement. In fact their have been u-tube posts of Mexican officals being gunned down in their own country.

I suspect that there is a covert militant mission active in Mexico that its own army/law enforcement cant handle.. We commonly attribute it to drug cartels...
I ask is there a possible middleastern connection ? And would that not be grounds to declare a state of war?

[edit on 2-5-2010 by jbmitch]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by jbmitch
Well this is symantics about defending yourself versus declaring war. And this is the curcix of the issue..civilians and state authorities are being hampered by federal mandates..who themselves have proven either to be either incapable or unwilling to respond to the needs of the people of the state of Arizona.


It's not semantics. Saying I slapped you when I punched you is semantics. Saying the clouds are off-white when they're gray is semantics.

I can defend myself from anyone who attacks me and not break the law. This is how someone who kills in self-defense doesn't get thrown in prison for murder. If I attack someone else just because I feel like it I would be breaking the law and thrown in jail, possibly prison if I kill them in the attack. This is no different from states being able to defend themselves when attacked but not being able to just declare war if they feel like it.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


"I can defend myself from anyone who attacks me and not break the law. This is how someone who kills in self-defense doesn't get thrown in prison for murder. "

You may want to get "up to speed" as it varies from State to State as to what extent you are allowed to defend your self and your posessions.
There have been many court cases where criminals have taken there victems to court for excessive force.

Semantics, I agree there is a clear division of criminal acts and acts of war.
When a foreign country can no longer control violent acts against its neighbors to the extent that Mexican citizens are commiting against law abiding American citizens then its clearly an act of war because it violations state soverignity by crosssing its borders and committing acts of violence which are no longer criminal acts but acts of war.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


"I can defend myself from anyone who attacks me and not break the law. This is how someone who kills in self-defense doesn't get thrown in prison for murder. "

You may want to get "up to speed" as it varies from State to State as to what extent you are allowed to defend your self and your posessions.
There have been many court cases where criminals have taken there victems to court for excessive force.

Semantics, I agree there is a clear division of criminal acts and acts of war.
When a foreign country can no longer control violent acts against its neighbors to the extent that Mexican citizens are commiting against law abiding American citizens then its clearly an act of war because it violations state soverignity by crosssing its borders and committing acts of violence which are no longer criminal acts but acts of war.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Yes find em and kill em.Do it in the name of Humanity and call it a day.Humanity trumps god which is what we used to create these pathetic liberal and destructive laws we have.

Only your false GOD allows you room in your reality to forgive and not simply kill a criminal,eliminate your GODS power and you eliminate the evil,its pretty simple isnt it,unless of course YOUR RELIGONS DOCTRINE IS EVIL ITSELF.

Humanities needs outweigh the individuals needs plain and simple,our guns only allow us to cheat other human beings out of their share of resources,we cheat because unless ALL HUMANS HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO EARN EQUAL REWARD FOR EQUAL TIME INVESTED---WE CANNOT "EARN" ANYTHING AT ALL.

We can only spend our time stealing from others.

Kill em but not because they cross the border,but because they have comitted crimes against humanity.Who cares where they did it.

And save your tears and prayers for the portion of humanity that deserve them please.Not criminals,and while we are at it lets fire up old sparky and empty these prisons already,this is rediculous already,we could be feeding and expending valuable resources on humans who deserve it.Instead we cater to the religous few,wire em up captain,time to clean this place up.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by one4all
Yes find em and kill em.Do it in the name of Humanity and call it a day.Humanity trumps god which is what we used to create these pathetic liberal and destructive laws we have.


Hunting people like animals is the complete opposite of what humanity is supposed to stand for. Even criminals have rights you know, not just the people you like.


Only your false GOD ...


I read that part and skipped the rest of the paragraph or sentence or whatever that was. Do not make assumptions about things you have no knowledge of. You've no clue whether I have a religion, follow any particular god, or whether that god is false if I do have one. Making assumptions is very unbecoming and only serves to make you look a fool. I need no religion or god to know the difference between right and wrong or to have a sense of morality.


Humanities needs outweigh the individuals needs plain and simple


So if 'humanity' decided that their needs dictated you be hunted down and killed for nothing more than being alive, that would be ok with you because your needs don't matter? Somehow, I think not. It's ok though because the people you are talking about hunting down like animals don't look like you right?



our guns only allow us to cheat other human beings out of their share of resources


Actually, my gun allows me to prevent people who share your ideals from hunting me down just for daring to exist.


Kill em but not because they cross the border,but because they have comitted crimes against humanity.Who cares where they did it.


Crossing a border isn't a crime against humanity, it's a violation of a country's law. Killing someone else isn't a crime against humanity, it's murder and thus a violation of not only a country's laws but a violation of that particular persons right to be alive.


And save your tears and prayers for the portion of humanity that deserve them please.Not criminals,and while we are at it lets fire up old sparky and empty these prisons already,this is rediculous already,we could be feeding and expending valuable resources on humans who deserve it.Instead we cater to the religous few,wire em up captain,time to clean this place up.


I have no tears for criminals, but that doesn't mean I see them as sub-human. Nor do I see the logic in executing everyone in prison when there are many people in prison who are guilty of nothing more than drug violations or fraud. Hardly worthy of the death penalty if you ask me.

edit: spelling

[edit on 2-5-2010 by Jenna]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by jbmitch
That is percisely what is happening to law abiding american citizens in border states.


Which is precisely why the federal government needs to get off their tail ends and worry more about protecting the people of this country than they do about how much they money they can get for their pet projects. It doesn't, however, change the fact that according to the Constitution states can only defend themselves unless in imminent danger.


I ask is there a possible middleastern connection ? And would that not be grounds to declare a state of war?


Highly unlikely, and no. A middle-eastern connection would not be grounds to declare war.


Originally posted by jbmitch
You may want to get "up to speed" as it varies from State to State as to what extent you are allowed to defend your self and your posessions.
There have been many court cases where criminals have taken there victems to court for excessive force.


I am 'up to speed' as you say. Variations between states does not negate my point that many a person has been cleared of charges because they acted in self-defense.


Semantics, I agree there is a clear division of criminal acts and acts of war.
When a foreign country can no longer control violent acts against its neighbors to the extent that Mexican citizens are commiting against law abiding American citizens then its clearly an act of war because it violations state soverignity by crosssing its borders and committing acts of violence which are no longer criminal acts but acts of war.


In the interest of getting 'up to speed', here's the definition of an act of war:


Source
An act of war is an action by one country against another with an intention to provoke a war or an action that occurs during a declared war or armed conflict between military forces of any origin. The loss or damage caused due to such conflicts are excluded from insurance coverage except for life assurances.


Unless you're making the claim that those crossing the border are actually part of Mexico's military and/or that Mexico is sending people across our borders to commit crimes in an attempt to provoke us into war, there have been no acts of war from Mexico against the US. Claiming something does not make it so. You seem to be looking for justification for Arizona to bomb Mexico to the stone-age where there legally isn't any.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by one4all
Yes find em and kill em.Do it in the name of Humanity and call it a day.Humanity trumps god which is what we used to create these pathetic liberal and destructive laws we have.

Only your false GOD allows you room in your reality to forgive and not simply kill a criminal,eliminate your GODS power and you eliminate the evil,its pretty simple isnt it,unless of course YOUR RELIGONS DOCTRINE IS EVIL ITSELF.

Humanities needs outweigh the individuals needs plain and simple,our guns only allow us to cheat other human beings out of their share of resources,we cheat because unless ALL HUMANS HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO EARN EQUAL REWARD FOR EQUAL TIME INVESTED---WE CANNOT "EARN" ANYTHING AT ALL.

We can only spend our time stealing from others.

Kill em but not because they cross the border,but because they have comitted crimes against humanity.Who cares where they did it.

And save your tears and prayers for the portion of humanity that deserve them please.Not criminals,and while we are at it lets fire up old sparky and empty these prisons already,this is rediculous already,we could be feeding and expending valuable resources on humans who deserve it.Instead we cater to the religous few,wire em up captain,time to clean this place up.




In what reality do the religious have a monopoly on compassion? By your logic all atheists should be bloodthirsty savages, and this is simply not at all the case. I'm not even sure what you're really trying to hint at here though, you contradict yourself quite a bit. However it should be noted that the Christian Religious Right in the United States is for the death penalty.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Loken68
 


Hillary is giving Phoenix to Israel?

I'm of mixed emotions about this.

Will they be shipping it there, or will the israelis be moving here?

ooooooh. Tan people with thick hebrew accents moving to Arizona? I smell trouble.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by one4all
 


Mass murder in the name of protecting human rights.

Well, I see ATS missed its last lithium treatment.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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Not mass murder,not killing EVERYONE IN PRISON,killing the people who have harmed other human bings and if the harm is great enough on a personal level as rape is then death is the logical sentence,if law enforcement is persuing you and you are armed and therefore have intent you are to expect to die NOT TO BE CAPTURED,no negotiations.

Mass murder is what happens on our streets every day in this world,there are more domestic murders at home every year than there are military casualities in the war we are fighting.

No Dorothy you arent in Kansas anymore,and the good olde values of the Wild West which are what America was built on just dont all work anymore today.

If these criminals have comitted murders or other serious crimes against humanity they should be persued and punished,if they are armed which they presumptiously are considering murder usually requires a weapon,they should be shot on sight,unless they disarm themselves before they have a bead on their forheads.


What right do you people claim to have to defend these people ,if they were innocent they would surrender,you know that,so what right do yopu claim other than ignorance of the needs of your fellow man to be protected from violence and harm.

As I said FALSE RELIGONS that allow for some type of divinely ordained forgiveness that precludes simply eliminating a deviant human from our world due to crimes comitted outweighing their personal value to the rest of humanity WHICH IS WHO WE ALL ANSWER TO ---NOT YOUR FALSE GODS.

You have a right to believe in whatever god you choose but keep your religous values away from the rest of humanity we dont espouse your values dictated by your religous doctrine.We wont accept the good despite the bad,we only accept good for humanity,and forgiveness for crimes against humanity is not within the abilities of other people,and god isnt home so I guess its the old noose.

I am no mass murderer but I will pull the lever in an instant and if I make a mistake,to bad,criminals make mistakes every day and my numbers will always favor humanity.

If you are afraid of death or pain or suffering then you need to grow the heck up,where do you think you live,eden?Why do you think we have public courtrooms,SO YOU CAN GO AND ACTUALLY SEE HOW JUSTICE AND PUNISHMENT WORK AND SO YOU CAN WITNESS THE DEVESTATING AFTERMATH OF THESE CRIMES,and hear the evidence firsthand in front of your whining noses of the majority of serious offenders BEING REPEAT OFFENDERS,and you can take to bed with you at night EVERY OUNCE OF PAIN you see from the victims families and friends because it is foolish perspectives like yours that allow these monsters to hit the streets a second time with your blessings,you are actually parties to EVERY SUBSEQUENT CRIME COMITTED.

If you havent been part of the justice system personally or IF YOU HAVENT DONE WHAT I JUST EXPLAINED---IT IS FREE YOU KNOW AND SHOIULD BE A PART OF OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM---then you really should take a mulligan on this one.

I think I am being pretty clear here.

I am pretty happy with the lie detector percentages myself and they save a hell of a lot of time money and resources.Hook it right up to the current and let the suckers fry their own criminal butts.If they can pass the test and walk away I AM OK WITH THOSE ODDS--its kinda like granting clemency if the rope breaks during a hanging,the odds are so low we can live with them.

There ,see I can be a bleeding heart to,IT JUST WONT BE MY REAL HEART BLEEDING IF I CAN HELP IT.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


An act of war is an action by one country against another with an intention to provoke a war or an action that occurs during a declared war or armed conflict between military forces of any origin. The loss or damage caused due to such conflicts are excluded from insurance coverage except for life assurances


Life insurance? WTF? typical rhetoric ..it wasnt an act of war unless a war already exisits. Well then howdoesn a nation at peace delcare war on another country when the said counry commits acts of terror, destablization and violation of soverign borders.

Stay home with your guns and shoot anyone who might try and break in.
I'mwaiting for the shoot fest to start up in Arizona and I rotate home..I'll be headed to the Southwest!



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by jbmitch
 


Bad editing on my part. Oops. The definition came from a legal website, I just forgot to edit out the part about insurance since it's irrelevant.

You completely misunderstood the definition or you failed to read it all. An act is considered an act of war if it occurs during a war or if it is an act intended to provoke war.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by jbmitch
 


I don't believe they can "declare war", but the militia should be able to lawfully engage in a battle within the states boundaries. And another state if asked for assistance.

We can go to 'war' in our states, just not outside of the country. But then again you probably could... but you would have ZERO federal protection.



posted on May, 10 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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As stated clearly, they cannot declare a war.

However, as it stands now, they are under invasion and could, considering the federal government is not doing anything, use their national guard troops aggressively inside their borders against said invading force.




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