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Can Arizona Declare War?

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posted on May, 1 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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why would AZ need to declare war?

We are already at war with terrorism
and illegal immigrants are terrorizing
AZ.

What else do they need
as far as paperwork ???




posted on May, 1 2010 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


the cartels would be a nuetral party as it wouldnt behoove them to take either side, they have plenty of other routes... nm the feds, this question doesnt concern them. its purely arizona vs mexico. and if it did the feds certaintly wouldnt war against arizona as it would make the other 49 states rise against the feds as well.. the fed would be seen as a forgien controlled entitiy (much like it is now) and they would burn..



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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It has been stated in the thread before, the Feds wont back a state.

That leaves it to the Lady Governor of Arizona to defend and protect her people.

Remember, the states are a GROUP of United States. They are supposed to be sovereign.

She should post the natl. guard and raise a militia (that wont be hard LOL) in her state.

Shoot the first SOB to cross the southern border and tell the supremes to go straight to hell (they may anyway LOL). Find an MS13 dirtbag? Up against the wall. Go into the prisons, if they have the tats for Mexican Mafia or related tats? Take'em out back. That should clear some room in the prisons!

I'd be interested to see what happened when/if the feds sent in THEIR troops to stop Az.

god bless AZ. Our POS governor hasnt got as much balls as a LADY!



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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According to a candidate for U.S. Senate, Arizona's law IS constitutional.
(one of the best constitutional scholars I've ever met)


Article 1 section 10 of U.S. constitution:

allows for States to defend themselves if invaded;

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

edit; key words are "invaded" & "imminent danger"



[edit on 1-5-2010 by zzombie]



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 11:37 PM
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If any of the border states declared war on Mexico, it could only be in reciprocity. Though not "officially", the Mexican cartels- and esp, the "Mexican Mafia" declared war on the United States some time ago. The Mexican Mafia has been notorious in Texas prisons since the 1980s.

It makes me sick to my stomach that any person, for the sake of political partisanship/ ideology (because that is exactly what it is), would deny born and raised- or naturalized, Unites States citizens the right to defend themselves and take precautions against the actions carried out en masse by these illegal aliens.



posted on May, 1 2010 @ 11:54 PM
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Unless the Mexican military have actually invaded and occupied Arizona, then there is no warfare with Mexico.

What we are seeing is increasing violence and lawlessness from some illegal immigrants. And that is a criminal matter, not a military matter.

So really it comes down to the Arizona police force, which SHOULD be backed by the FBI, because immigration is a Federal matter.

The governor of Arizona can always declare a state of emergency, and call out the National Guard, but that is still not the same as declaring war on another country, which simply cannot happen.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 02:10 AM
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Yeah War between Arizona and Mexico, that would be something . Knowing that a lot of the army soldiers are Mexican American or Immigrants that were promised a green card after they served.
What a mess! Hehe!

"Join the army and become a US citizen in 6 months", That's uncle Sam creation. Go figure!



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


"Also if the Fed issued an order to cease and the state refused would this cause the Fed to also engage the state like during the Civil war?"

Interesting thought there..US attacks a state that was defending its borders as a result of the US responsibility to defend its borders against foreign incursion?



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


"why would AZ need to declare war?"

I touched on the reasons earlier but here are a few thoughts.

The present dilemma in Arizona and other border states is the application of civil rights to illegal aliens and the limitations of law enforcement agencies within the state. There are current restrictions to private landowners and to what extent they can protect their property and themseves. The rules change when a "State of War" exsists.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Jenna
Unless there's some loophole I'm unaware of, declaring war is a power given solely to Congress. Individual states don't have the money or manpower to declare war against an entire country, so even if there is a loophole it would be a very very bad idea.



Yeah, Immigration is the job of the Federal Government too, but that didn't stop Arizona..



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by cvs34
 


"Yeah War between Arizona and Mexico, that would be something . Knowing that a lot of the army soldiers are Mexican American or Immigrants that were promised a green card after they served"

Well if the Mexicans join the US Army and are legat citizens of the United States then technically they would be American hispanics protectiing their country from what they left behind. Mexicans who were not American citizens that were serving on active dutry ...good point ...but not the exact vein of this thread.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:39 AM
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reply to post by Silver Shadow
 


"Unless the Mexican military have actually invaded and occupied Arizona, then there is no warfare with Mexico"

Good point and what consitutes an "Act of War".
However again..I'm talking about State not Federal mandates.
And if the states retain their right to act as a soverign entity then they may very well reserve the right to declare war on whoever they feel is threatening the security of their state. That threat doesnt have to be necesserily be from a foreign military power, just that country's failure to contain its citizen's illegal activites..acts of war ....i.e. murder, rape, kidnapping, tresspassing with intent to do harm..etc,,,,,

[edit on 2-5-2010 by jbmitch]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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Under the Sept 11th scenario (no, I don't buy the OS- but just using that for comparison/ contrast from a federal govt pov), we attacked/ "went to war" against both Afghanistan & Iraq because we were attacked by those (less than 15) terrorists/ "enemy combatants"/ guerilla warriors. The US was not attacked by an "army" in that case. A "war" was not declared against us. Our "enemy" was nebulous/ hidden/ dispersed & we couldn't clearly define who we were going after. Nor were we attacked using conventional weapons (not even by Middle Eastern standards/ kalishnikovs)
By comparison, we have now been under attack by thousands of cartel members FOR YEARS (some are posting here saying that Mexican MILITARY helicopters HAVE been in US air space in the Texas Valley/ border AND the cartels are using military grade weapons. IS the crime committed by the illegals systematic or is that even necessary to define it as "guerilla warfare"?

We can play semantics- tell ourselves we aren't being "attacked" and "invaded" all we want to. The fact is that it is violating our security; causing loss of life and property & undermining the country financially- often by fraud.
If anyone wants to cry "racism" or violating the "rights" of existing US citizens, what about those of Middle Eastern extraction and esp, those who have been hauled off to GITMO? It's okay to play fast & loose with the "rights" of Middle Easterners, but not with Hispanics? (& why does this remind me of another double standard between GW Bush & Obama?)
There is very little difference in appearance between a person of Middle Eastern extraction and one of Hispanic extraction if the "profiling" is visual.


[edit on 2-5-2010 by DogsDogsDogs]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by Major Discrepancy
 




As the Major previously stated; no the state of Arizona cannot declare war. You may have some sophomoric attachment to the idea, but that changes neither the U.S. Constitution or the Enumerated Power of the Legislative Branch. The Major suggests a little more reading of his erudite posts and supporting linked material and less of your juvenile attempts to dispute irrefutable facts.

Dismissed.


Excuse me but can you please point out in the Constitution where it forbids a state from declaring war or defending itself?

You appear to suffer from a common misconception that the constitution had authority over the states when it does not. It strictly defines what the federal government can and cannot do not what the states can and cannot do except in a very limited capacity.

In other words of it is not in there the federal government has no say in the matter. Do you really believe nay state would have signed on had they thought they were giving up thier right to declare war and defend themselves? it was a mutual defense compact of a union of several states not the creation of one big state like everyone thinks it is today.

Ignorance of our history is killing us!



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
Excuse me but can you please point out in the Constitution where it forbids a state from declaring war or defending itself?



Section 10 - Powers prohibited of States

[...]

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.



Do you really believe nay state would have signed on had they thought they were giving up thier right to declare war and defend themselves?


There's a difference between defending yourself and declaring war, they're not the same thing. Any state can defend itself if invaded or if they're about to be attacked. No state can just up and declare war and attack another country just because they want to without the consent of Congress.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by broahes
Yeah, Immigration is the job of the Federal Government too, but that didn't stop Arizona..


Oh I know. I never said they couldn't do it anyway. Wouldn't be the first time our Constitution was ignored.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


.unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

Notice the "unless".....big question is ..does Arizona have to wait..how many incursion, how many deaths and violations of civil law before this mets the "imminent Danger" clause.?



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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Get real,America knows what to do,the question is WHY isnt anything being done?


You simply hunt the criminals down and americans like that idea,ask the mexican government for permission to cooperate with Mexican law enforcement ,then hunt em down and let the federales shoot em dead.

Shoot em all dead and you save both mexico and America time and energy.

These are also terrorists and should be treated as such by the definition of the laws alterd and created to deter terrorism in and against the United states.
Open up on em.

War has already been started against terrorism,dont tell me there arent mexican AlQueda.Publicise the connection when you find it,flood mexico with military support,stabilise their government in the process eliminate all criminal groups"connected to the terrorists" and regain and solidify national security,in TWO COUNTRIES all at the same time.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by one4all]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


"There's a difference between defending yourself and declaring war, they're not the same thing. Any state can defend itself if invaded or if they're about to be attacked. No state can just up and declare war and attack another country just because they want to without the consent of Congress"

Well this is symantics about defending yourself versus declaring war. And this is the curcix of the issue..civilians and state authorities are being hampered by federal mandates..who themselves have proven either to be either incapable or unwilling to respond to the needs of the people of the state of Arizona.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by DogsDogsDogs
 


" IS the crime committed by the illegals systematic or is that even necessary to define it as "guerilla warfare"? "

Very good point..are the activites taking place in Mexico actually organizated with the intent of destabilizing our national security or creating an anti-governement sentiment...sure appears that way.
-They are increasingly well armed with "soviet block weapons" now commonly associated with middleastern groups (AK-47's).
-Some mentioned the similarities of Hispanic and middleastern physical characteristics, so there could be advisors from Islamic Terrorist groups, working with the Mexican governement.
-There is a well advertised Hispanic movement ,,represented in California supporting the re-annexation of the American Southwest back to Mexico.

To me these are things to think about or at least consider!



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