Religion is slavery, and god is obsolete.

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by novastrike81

 

Saying, "oh it's written by humans," isn't evidence but an opinion based on a presupposition with no factual basis to back it up.

Saying, "oh, it's written by The Holy Spirit, look, it even says so" isn't evidence but an opinion based on a presupposition with no factual basis to back it up.

The best selling book ever is it? So let me get this straight...millions of people mold their lives around a book with no factual basis to back it up?

They don't call it faith for a reason, smart one. Thanks for copying me to prove a point that you have no basis for but an opinion. You can move along with your other atheist buddies now. It actually does have factual basis but you are not willing to accept it because you don't want to. You are a close minded individual, someone who isn't willing to accept the half of something.

I never believed in it either, I thought it was a bunch of crap until I started looking into it and started... dare I say it... some research and found it.

Example:

Genesis 22:17
Blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.

Isn't it true that scientist admit that there are more stars in the universe then individual grains of sands on the beaches of every shore on the earth combined? Oh wait that was written 6,000 ago by humans with no telescopes. Here is another one.

1 Corinthians 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.

Sure every star looks normal to the naked eye and possibly through a telescope. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others. Oh and another for you.

Jeremiah 10:13
When He utters His voice,
There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
“And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth.
He makes lightning for the rain,
He brings the wind out of His treasuries.”

In this verse you can see several phases of the hydrologic cycle—the worldwide processes of evaporation, translation aloft by atmospheric circulation, condensation with electrical discharges, and precipitation. I'm sure they knew about that back in the good old days.

And another one for your little skeptic mind. Hydrothermal vents are described in two books of the Bible written before 1400BC—more than 3,000 years before their discovery by science. Here is one of them.

Genesis 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

This one proves that the Earth was circular and not flat as originally thought a few centuries ago. Keep in mind this is the Old Testament... Before Christ. I even bolded it so your small brain could figure it out easier.

The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 BC. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested that the earth might be a sphere in this book On the Heavens.

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Then again you'll find something to make it sound bogus or not true because you choose to not believe or understand that which has been presented before you.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by novastrike81

They don't call it faith for a reason, smart one.

Please refer to page 7 for my take on faith. It's nothing but a faith in humans and what they have taught you.

You can move along with your other atheist buddies now.

I'm actually agnostic, please refer to page 7 again to understand my view here. I believe Atheists and Christians (or members of any organized religion really) are as bad as one another.

It actually does have factual basis but you are not willing to accept it because you don't want to. You are a close minded individual, someone who isn't willing to accept the half of something.

I never believed in it either, I thought it was a bunch of crap until I started looking into it and started... dare I say it... some research and found it.

Trust me, if it had any factual basis, I would know about it...you did nothing but quote numerous passages from the bible, which could be interpreted in a number of ways...and even if you did interpret them correctly, it states nothing amazing in my opinion...other ancient cultures had knowledge far more advanced...

Isn't also on the first page of the bible that the moon and the Sun are referred to as the same thing, just small and large? Small light and big light or something like that? Seems to me ancient men didn't realize the moon was actually reflecting light off the Sun and didn't actually produce light of its own...

PS - I wouldn't consider myself closed-mined my friend...I believe Aliens exist and visit Earth, in fact, I believe they even created and engineered the human species, perhaps even terraforming the Earth...I believe highly secret and powerful underground organizations exists which have world wide connections and posses technology and scientific data at least 50 years ahead of the public sector. I believe something of great significance will happen on 2012, but I don't know exactly what it will be...and I believe in certain paranormal phenomena which I believe can be scientifically explained, but involves aspects of reality which science is unable to detect at present. I believe we live in a infinite fractal and holographic reality which directly integrates with the conscious mind...yep, I'm super closed-minded...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]

reply to post by CHA0S

Isn't also on the first page of the bible that the moon and the Sun are referred to as the same thing, just small and large? Small light and big light or something like that? Seems to me ancient men didn't realize the moon was actual reflecting light off the Sun and didn't actually produce light of its own...

Genesis also makes no mention of the universe or the dinosaurs, which shows the limited human knowledge at the time. For a god that created all he was a bit sparse on the details. The Egyptians and myans knew more. From memory it also talks about god creating night and day, which is the sun and our earths rotation, but the earth was flat at that time according to religion, it wasn’t for another 1500 years we discovered the earth rotates around the sun not the other way around all of this was not mentioned in the book which Christians, Jews and Muslims base their knowledge of god around.

novastrike81. You have spent about 5 hrs defending Christianity take my hat off mate thats one hell-ova belief you got going.

i just wanted to say that im religious. but im not a slave

love ya brothers and sistas keep it real

reply to post by the illuminator


Slave is a big harsh I think. Serf is more appropriate.

Originally posted by CHA0S
Trust me, if it had any factual basis, I would know about...you did nothing but quote numerous passages from the bible, which could be interpreted in a number of ways...and even if you did interpret them correctly, it states nothing amazing in my opinion...other ancient cultures had knowledge far more advanced...

Isn't also on the first page of the bible that the moon and the Sun are referred to as the same thing, just small and large? Small light and big light or something like that? Seems to me ancient men didn't realize the moon was actual reflecting light off the Sun and didn't actually produce light of its own...

Point taken and I had a hunch you were going to relate those passages to prophecies which most can be interpreted any which way. One day I hope you figure it out, but to show you that at least ONE scripture I listed can't be taken a certain way is the first one.

Genesis 22:17
Blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.

Also to build on that I raise you:

Jeremiah 33:22
“As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.”

Has anyone counted all the stars in the universe or all the grains of sand on the beaches? No, you are willfully ignorant of the facts. Yes, the ancients were way better then we were and they didn't have telescopes. That should tell you something. Then again you wouldn't understand if even God was standing right in front of you. Then again, you probably believe in aliens from another planet.

Yes there is a passage that describes it but you don't seem to understand what it's saying. I'll show you anyway cause I have to spoon feed you like an infant.

Genesis 1:14-19:
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the da, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The purpose wasn't to figure out the Sun was reflecting light off the moon.

Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by CHA0S

 

Isn't also on the first page of the bible that the moon and the Sun are referred to as the same thing, just small and large? Small light and big light or something like that? Seems to me ancient men didn't realize the moon was actual reflecting light off the Sun and didn't actually produce light of its own...

Genesis also makes no mention of the universe or the dinosaurs, which shows the limited human knowledge at the time. For a god that created all he was a bit sparse on the details. The Egyptians and myans knew more. From memory it also talks about god creating night and day, which is the sun and our earths rotation, but the earth was flat at that time according to religion, it wasn’t for another 1500 years we discovered the earth rotates around the sun not the other way around all of this was not mentioned in the book which Christians, Jews and Muslims base their knowledge of god around.

novastrike81. You have spent about 5 hrs defending Christianity take my hat off mate thats one hell-ova belief you got going.

Before I comment, first thank you and second, I'm also working the night shift at work so I have like 12 hours to defend myself cause we all know in some jobs nothing happens at night.

Now on to your point that dinosaurs aren't mentioned in the book of Genesis... well they are, indirectly. They aren't called dinosaurs, they are called dragons. Unicorns is a different topic lets not go there. I also want to point out I mentioned the verse that says the earth is round; not sure if you saw it or not. It should be at the top of this page. If the Bible says the earth is flat then there would be no point in believe it because we know the earth is round. So that's one of those lame "i'm trying to debunk the Bible" arguments that simply isn't true.

Then again if God was sparse on the details, you can't fault him for that. One would think he wanted us to try and figure most of this out for ourselves. It says so in the Bible:

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

and it says so here too

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

I.e. figure it out on your own. Do you want to spoon feed everything to everyone or do you want them to grow intellectually and learn for themselves the mysterious in the world?

reply to post by novastrike81

Yes, the ancients were way better then we were and they didn't have telescopes. That should tell you something.
---
Then again, you probably believe in aliens from another planet.

Correct.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the da, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Exactly..."two great lights"...they aren't both "lights"...why would God, or The Holy Spirit, or whoever, state the moon was a light?!? Surely they knew better...as for the rest of your bible quotes...I don't really see the significance...they do nothing but make observations that anyone could make...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]

Originally posted by CHA0S
Exactly..."two great lights"...they aren't both "lights"...why would God, or The Holy Spirit, or whoever, state the moon was a light?!? Surely they knew better...as for the rest of your bible quotes...I don't really see the significance...they do nothing but make observations that anyone could make...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]

Which makes your point irrelevant. You're missing the point, the moon wasn't supposed to be light like the Sun. It was supposed to luminate the darkness and provide time for seasons, signs, days, and years. Stop purposely being argumentative and ignorant. It was supposed to be a lesser light to rule the darkness. You really over complicate the meaning of the text. Just as God brought light in the world to divide the light and the dark and to make the evening and the day. Can you not see where you are going when there isn't a new moon? Some people just never learn.

If you can tell me how they knew about hydrothermal vents that are at the bottom of the ocean then go ahead. If not then you're just proving nothing significant and stating more denial.


[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by novastrike81

Now on to your point that dinosaurs aren't mentioned in the book of Genesis... well they are, indirectly. They aren't called dinosaurs, they are called dragons. Unicorns is a different topic lets not go there. I also want to point out I mentioned the verse that says the earth is round; not sure if you saw it or not. It should be at the top of this page. If the Bible says the earth is flat then there would be no point in believe it because we know the earth is round. So that's one of those lame "i'm trying to debunk the Bible" arguments that simply isn't true.

Im working today to but ATS is keeping me awake and especially this topic

You seem like a switched on guy, you frequent ATS and obviously know how to use the net. Mentioning dinosaurs indirectly and the vague quotes you provide from the bible, (BTW is that bible online where you are getting these quotes) that are very open to interpratation can’t give even you confidence that everything is known.

I get the whole morel side of religion, live well, treat others well and just be a decent human being, I live the same way without religion. But what I can’t understand is how people take the bible seriously. It was written almost 2k years ago in unknown circumstances giving all the answers we have asked for millennia, what created the universe? Why are we here? Etc. The big bang has been proven as the start of this universe which we frequent at this time, a whole species of completely foreign animals roamed our planet before us, was god watching over them and did he wipe them out for us?? Link that all up with the Jesus story which is very big stretch of the imagination, how can you believe all this???? I know you have faith but that faith has come from a Chinese whisper and media basically, has god spoken to you??? Do you trust the media now days, agendas and propaganda are very powerful tools? There must be something more that is driving your faith; usually it’s a life experience...

reply to post by novastrike81

It was supposed to be a lesser light to rule the darkness.

But it ISN'T a lesser light. It simply isn't a light...so why call it a light?!?

You really over complicate the meaning of the text.

I hardly think that's true. You take the most complex parts of the bible, and say, look how smart they are, they must be telling the truth...then when it seems like they don't know what they are talking about, or they have their facts wrong...it's always "You're interpreting it wrong", or "It has been translated wrong" or "You're over-complicating things"...I'm so sick of it...let me quote something I said a while back:

after talking to a lot of Christians, when it comes down to it, most of you have stated that we shouldn't take every word the bible says literally...and because it is a translation/interpretation from another language, which is probably an interpretation/translation from yet another language...how can we trust any of it? Assuming it was the work of God in the first place...how do we know man hasn't edited and changed it do his desire over time? How can we really know what to take as truth? How do we know what sections aren't the words of God? It's a guessing game...and I'm not for it...

Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by novastrike81

 

Now on to your point that dinosaurs aren't mentioned in the book of Genesis... well they are, indirectly. They aren't called dinosaurs, they are called dragons. Unicorns is a different topic lets not go there. I also want to point out I mentioned the verse that says the earth is round; not sure if you saw it or not. It should be at the top of this page. If the Bible says the earth is flat then there would be no point in believe it because we know the earth is round. So that's one of those lame "i'm trying to debunk the Bible" arguments that simply isn't true.

Im working today to but ATS is keeping me awake and especially this topic

You seem like a switched on guy, you frequent ATS and obviously know how to use the net. Mentioning dinosaurs indirectly and the vague quotes you provide from the bible, (BTW is that bible online where you are getting these quotes) that are very open to interpratation can’t give even you confidence that everything is known.

I get the whole morel side of religion, live well, treat others well and just be a decent human being, I live the same way without religion. But what I can’t understand is how people take the bible seriously. It was written almost 2k years ago in unknown circumstances giving all the answers we have asked for millennia, what created the universe? Why are we here? Etc. The big bang has been proven as the start of this universe which we frequent at this time, a whole species of completely foreign animals roamed our planet before us, was god watching over them and did he wipe them out for us?? Link that all up with the Jesus story which is very big stretch of the imagination, how can you believe all this???? I know you have faith but that faith has come from a Chinese whisper and media basically, has god spoken to you??? Do you trust the media now days, agendas and propaganda are very powerful tools? There must be something more that is driving your faith; usually it’s a life experience...

No, I know where some of them are in the Bible but I don't feel like typing it out so I just use bible gate way and just type in the Book and Chapter/Verse and select the KJV. Makes it easier if you ask me; work smarter not harder.

Yes a lot of it is open to interpretation but then again we are reading an english version and not the original Hebrew version in the correct tense and verb. Some words which don't necessarily mean the same in English as they do in Greek and from Greek to Hebrew. If you ask me, the people 3-4,000 years ago predicted the birth of Jesus, Yeshua, whatever name you choose to give him well in advance. That he would be the Savior, and claim to be the Son of God. Do you think those could have multiple interpretations or just leave it up to change that some guy gets named Jesus and proclaims to be the Messiah and does exactly as its told 1-2,000 years ahead of time?

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by novastrike81

 

It was supposed to be a lesser light to rule the darkness.

But it ISN'T a lesser light. It simply isn't a light...so why call it a light?!?

You really over complicate the meaning of the text.

I hardly think that's true. You take the most complex parts of the bible, and say, look how smart they are, they must be telling the truth...then when it seems like they don't know what they are talking about, or they have their facts wrong...it's always "You're interpreting it wrong", or "It has been translated wrong" or "You're over-complicating things"...I'm so sick of it...let me quote something I said a while back:

after talking to a lot of Christians, when it comes down to it, most of you have stated that we shouldn't take every word the bible says literally...and because it is a translation/interpretation from another language, which is probably an interpretation/translation from yet another language...how can we trust any of it? Assuming it was the work of God in the first place...how do we know man hasn't edited and changed it do his desire over time? How can we really know what to take as truth? How do we know what sections aren't the words of God? It's a guessing game...and I'm not for it...

Does the moon still not give off light even if it's a reflection of light? Really stop asking stupid questions. And to answer this gem of yours "How do we know what sections aren't the words of God?" Quite simply put.. because IT DOESN'T SAY GOD SAID IT DUH! In every passage of scripture when God talks or says something it says "And the Lord said" "God said..." "the Lord our God said" etc it is always preluded or said after a sentence whether God speaks or not. You are up with the most unintelligent and misinformed Agnostic's ever.

Also most words in the English vocabulary aren't in the Greek language or in the Hebrew language so we have to use the closet one to it if none exist. If you want to read the real version of the Bible go learn Hebrew.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

I think someone just looked at the sun and the moon and saw they were circles and assumed the earth was a circle, if the sun and moon were squares that verse would have prob said "It is He who sits above the square of the earth.

Plus that quote actually says to me why they though the world was flat because it looks flat in the sky... Interpretations of quotes that have already been interrelated many times don’t fill me with confidence of anything.

Originally posted by deenuu
Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

I think someone just looked at the sun and the moon and saw they were circles and assumed the earth was a circle, if the sun and moon were squares that verse would have prob said "It is He who sits above the square of the earth.

Plus that quote actually says to me why they though the world was flat because it looks flat in the sky... Interpretations of quotes that have already been interrelated many times don’t fill me with confidence of anything.

Then what would make you believe? If God appeared in front of you and said "Hey, I'm God!"?

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by deenuu

It was written almost 2k years ago in unknown circumstances giving all the answers we have asked for millennia, what created the universe? Why are we here? Etc.

Exactly! I don't think it's smart to mindlessly follow a book which claims to have all these answers, when there is absolutely no proof of these claims. Apparently, some great book has given you all the answers to life and the after-life...it's seems a little too convenient to me...I've said something similar before:

Religion: Usually informing it's followers that everything in the universe (including humans) was created by a God of some description, it relieves followers of the need to ask questions about reality, history and our origins. It totally strips you of any chance at independent thought, Christianity for example, a whole freaking book that dictates how you should live your entire life...was written by man, not a God...I'm not saying God(s) don't exist, or even that they didn't create us or the universe, just that no book on Earth contains the will of such an entity if one does exist...

---

Seemingly, some great book has answered everything for you. You now know where you came from and how you got here, you don't really have to ask questions about reality. You now know what's right and wrong....and the bible even goes so far as to say "Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding."...basically you can't even think for your self anymore. How can you accept all this and be content with it? It's an insult to independent thought.

Religion in itself isn't a bad thing. Science has shown that praying leads creates endorphines which make you feel good (or have visions). People meditating enjoy a similar effect.

Having said that, if everyone would just accept the fact that whatever religion they follow makes them feel good...and at the same time allow others to enjoy the same by letting them believe whatever they want, all would be good.

Sadly, the churches (Christian/Muslim/etc.) are abusing their power. They are using religion as a way to indoctrinate key words into people, and they can link those to whatever they want.

For example...if some political leaders want to prevent the use of microchips in modern medicine, all they have to do is talk about the "mark of the devil" in the news, and Christians will automatically look at microchips negatively, no matter how beneficial they are in certain circumstances.

Religion allows leaders to condition people, appeal to their emotions rather than their rationality and logic.

This fact makes the CHURCH a dangerous organization. Just look at the agenda of Christian fundamentalists (or Muslim fundamentalsits...same thing really).

It's time moderates and agnostics to rise up, and tell all those fundamentalists and leaders who abuse religion as a way to foster their agenda to SHUT UP!!

The sad part is, it's a devil's cycle. It's very hard for believers to break out, because the only way they can do so, is to admit that they've been manipulated and wrong. No one likes to admit they've been wrong.

Imo religious beliefs should be banned from all fields that require RATIONALITY and LOGIC...namely politics and science.

Bill Maher put it nicely in his movie:

The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken.

George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction.

Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not.

The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting # dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a horrible price.

If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers.

If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was. We learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.

Having said that, we need to differentiate betweeen RELIGION and the CHURCH. Religion by itself isn't a bad thing, but the greed and power hungry CHURCH is abusing it as an excuse to push through their agenda (and preserve their power).

[edit on 2-5-2010 by MrXYZ]

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by deenuu

 

It was written almost 2k years ago in unknown circumstances giving all the answers we have asked for millennia, what created the universe? Why are we here? Etc.

Exactly! I don't think it's smart to mindlessly follow a book which claims to have all these answers, when there is absolutely no proof of these claims. Apparently, some great book has given you all the answers to life and the after-life...it's seems a little too convenient to me...I've said something similar before:

Religion: Usually informing it's followers that everything in the universe (including humans) was created by a God of some description, it relieves followers of the need to ask questions about reality, history and our origins. It totally strips you of any chance at independent thought, Christianity for example, a whole freaking book that dictates how you should live your entire life...was written by man, not a God...I'm not saying God(s) don't exist, or even that they didn't create us or the universe, just that no book on Earth contains the will of such an entity if one does exist...

---

Seemingly, some great book has answered everything for you. You now know where you came from and how you got here, you don't really have to ask questions about reality. You now know what's right and wrong....and the bible even goes so far as to say "Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding."...basically you can't even think for your self anymore. How can you accept all this and be content with it? It's an insult to independent thought.

We have a biased person in the thread. You agree with those who agree with you and disagree with those who don't. Please stop posting now since you've posted your postion.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Religion in itself isn't a bad thing. Science has shown that praying leads creates endorphines which make you feel good (or have visions). People meditating enjoy a similar effect.

Having said that, if everyone would just accept the fact that whatever religion they follow makes them feel good...and at the same time allow others to enjoy the same by letting them believe whatever they want, all would be good.

Sadly, the churches (Christian/Muslim/etc.) are abusing their power. They are using religion as a way to indoctrinate key words into people, and they can link those to whatever they want.

For example...if some political leaders want to prevent the use of microchips in modern medicine, all they have to do is talk about the "mark of the devil" in the news, and Christians will automatically look at microchips negatively, no matter how beneficial they are in certain circumstances.

Religion allows leaders to condition people, appeal to their emotions rather than their rationality and logic.

This fact makes the CHURCH a dangerous organization. Just look at the agenda of Christian fundamentalists (or Muslim fundamentalsits...same thing really).

It's time moderates and agnostics to rise up, and tell all those fundamentalists and leaders who abuse religion as a way to foster their agenda to SHUT UP!!

The sad part is, it's a devil's cycle. It's very hard for believers to break out, because the only way they can do so, is to admit that they've been manipulated and wrong. No one likes to admit they've been wrong.

Imo religious beliefs should be banned from all fields that require RATIONALITY and LOGIC...namely politics and science.

So because science says prayer leads to make me feel better that dismiss God? Really? Exercising and working out makes me feel better but that doesn't disprove God. I'm sure if science told you you could breathe in space without any suit you'd believe that too.

reply to post by novastrike81


But that prediction is only true if Jesus was the magic man the bible says he is. Jesus, I believe was just a dude, who in his teen years went to India, studied Buddhism prob smoked some hash had a real good think about what being a decent human being is all about, came back to his homeland to spread the word, was killed by the TPTB at the time, prob along with many other preachers. Now it wasn’t for a few hundred, yes hundred years the bible was written and collated in Rome, by Julius Caesar and Constantine and friends if my history serves me right.