I just wanted to say one thing about God that everyone talks about.
People always say if God is real why dont he show up, why dont he save kids from dying stop wars etc etc.

The way i see all religions working is that, God and his teaching are their as a means of test, all major religions will teach about an afterlife and a judgement days so to speak where everyone will be brought true justice for the good and bad.

So if god were to intervene, first of all everyone would know he is there, which would cancel out the belief system altogether, because it becomes fact. Then after it becomes fact etc, everyone will eiher obey him 100% which is most likely as he has a slight chance of sapping yo wiht his thunderbolts lol.

So Conclusion is God will not intervene, but will test mankind for their actions, be they good or bad. If a baby gets killed you might think where is the justice in that. But that is explained in religion as a hereafter system where people will get true justice. This world being a test for mankind, if you pass you get heaven, reincarnated as a better creature, go hell, reincarnated as a cockroach lol.

Whateve the religion maybe, please understand when you talk to believers, dont bring this up because the answer to all that is that mortal life is a test, a long exam.

This is a valid point and I agree that the world would be a better place today if many of the religions in todays world would end. I think, however, that it is not so much religion as it is the doctrine that anybody who doesn't follow your line of thinking, or your religion, is damned that causes problems. This idea, that a person, no matter how virtuously they lead their life, must follow a certain belief system or perish, is the true poison that has been infecting the minds of men for ages. Most religions instill the same, correct, set of values and ethics that people should live by, but then many go on to almost cancel this out by adding that those who don't follow the religion are lost or evil. This thought process is what causes violence in the name of religion. Perhaps the original intent of this idea was to ensure that people followed a set of morals, but the message was skewered from "you must follow these values" to "you must worship this deity", I don't know. That being said, it is my firm belief that this concept is so ingrained into the foundations of so many religions that the only way to stop it is to stop the religions themselves. So, while I agree that many religions do not have a place in modern society, I will not go so far as to say that all religion should be abolished, because I believe there are many positive qualities of religion. In case you've read this and are wondering, I am an Agnostic Theist, meaning, yes, I do believe in a higher power.

Originally posted by deenuu

Did you hear these words spoken? Did you see Jesus walk on water, or rise from the dead?? No-one alive did all we have is the bible, which in my opinion was written and faked by the Romans for many reasons. I don’t mean to single out Christianity here however Catholicism was forced on me from birth and went to catholic schools so I know that Religion well.

That is your opinion by the way and that is why it's called faith. Plus you can't prove the Romans made the Bible more so than I can prove Jesus walked on water; it's circular reasoning. Christianity wasn't forced on me and it shows you the kind of religion Catholicism is if it's forced on you. That's not a true religion and is why it's depicted as the false church and where the false prophet (the next pope) and anti-christ will stem from. Some people try to force their religion on to others but that doesn't make it right and they probably are doing other things they shouldn't do that goes against the Bible.

Hell, now that’s a funny one, Notice how if you are good and do the things that the Religious system tells you to you will go to heaven and experience eternal happiness, and if you are bad you go to hell and you experience eternal damnation, Cant you tell a human made that up?? It’s the old duality and it works like a gem take Yin and Yang for example or black and white or night and day give those human emotions and bam you have a perfect reward system to keep people in line. Just like adult Santa clause.

You can do every good moral thing the Bible tells you and still go to Hell. You can go to church every day and still go to Hell. You can witness and bring followers to Christ and still go to Hell. But if you don't confess with your mouth and heart and believe it that Jesus is the true savior who died for your sins you will go to Hell. It's not rocket science, but I'm sure Catholicism said it was okay to worship saints which is what they do. Downstairs you go.

Last thing If Jesus died and rose, why can you or I or someone else do the same thing, if god is all powerful It would want people to believe, not let people fight and war for thousands of years, so if God is real and I don’t mean to offend anyone here But when I get my chance I will tell him he is a C**T, I hate everything it is and will go anywhere but with him and if I have to ill fight to my second death. Let the lightning strikes begin.

Probably because we aren't God's son, maybe? Just a thought. We are His creations but Jesus is his Son. God does want you to believe, he tries to reach out to everyone. There comes a point when He gives up because you, not you personally, won't accept his free gift. Now your only chance is to rely on someone else to believe which makes it hard on you to become saved. That's how it's been described to me and it's part of the debate, right? I enjoy them too just not when people tarnish the person over their beliefs.



[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]

Originally posted by Kaytagg

Aside from your retarded little rant, you do raise some good questions. I would actually agree with some of your points if you had put "organized" in front of the word religion, as in the religious institutions. I see them as brainwashing or control centers, but religion on a personal level in not the same thing.

God & religion serve the same purpose they always have. To help set a moral compass, to strengthen us when we are weak, to explain things beyond our current understanding.

Is there some kind of all-knowing all-seeing entity or a pervasive & interconnected life energy or a flying spaghetti monster out there? I don't know. But, i can say *I* don't think the creature that gave us Mozart, Shakespeare, Einstein, & DaVinci came about by happenstance.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Religion is slavery..

Do you wipe evrytime you go number 2? If you do, does that mean you are a slave?

To me the word religion holds no implication of faith or a higer power. It simply describes the repitition of any voluntary act no matter the reason. The repitition of such an act shows reverence to all things associated with it, paving the way for hoodoo-voodoo.

"God is obsolete" ?
How can a word become obsolete? If it is offensive to a voting majority? I dont believe a word can become obsolete. The word god is made up of three letters out of an alphabet in the English language.

Heres a correct usage of your adjective.....This thread is obsolete.

religion is not slavery

If there was no religion, then society would end up in chaos. Here's an example as to why. There are currently 2.1 Billion people in the world today, whom are Christians (including me). Now, take away their fundamental beliefs and laws they were to follow; such as The Ten Commandments, and Jesus' greatest commandment as to treat others the way you would want to be treated. By taking away Christians' belief of a God, you take away religion, and you give them a mindset where they believe they can do whatever they want and get away with it.

Take Away
The 1st Commandment: "Thou shall not have other gods beside me."
- And you will have those Christians, worship idols and the materialistic world.

The 2nd Commandment: "Thou shall not take the Lord's name in vain."
- Bad when there is a God; Not much damage to society if not.

The 3rd Commandment: "Remember the Sabbath Day and keep it holy."
- (Refer to 2nd Commandment Result)

The 4th Commandment: "Honor your Mother and Father."
- Now this is a huge deal. Without the Christians' feel of responsibility to respect and obey their parents, kids would end up rebellious and even try to cut their relationships with the very parents that raised them. If any of you are parents, you would know what I'm talking about.

The 5th Commandment: "Thou shall not commit murder."
- This is another huge commandment. Without following this, there would be chaos all over this world. With people killing others and not feeling guilty about it, this is a huge problem. With those of you saying that there's a lot of murder and crime, being that America is a Christian country; remember that Christians don't ever believe in killing... one who kills is not even Christian. A true Christian would keep this commandment. Not only does this commandment refer to physical killing, but also verbally abusing people and hurting them. You wouldn't want 2.1 Billion people think they can kill someone, and have no guilt or fear of it. The logical thing here would be to have everyone follow this commandment.

The 6th Commandment: "Thou shall not commit adultery."
- I don't understand why this would be a bad thing to obey. Doesn't it seem logical to have everyone be faithful to their own spouse and not cheat on anyone? If this commandment were to be taken away, Christians would go on raping sprees, or look at other women lustfully and feel good about it.
I really don't think you would want your wife/husband to look at someone else while your still in the relationship. Also this could mean 2.1 Billion more porn addicts, cheaters, rapists, and people on Jerry Springer. Doesn't sound fun, does it?

The 7th Commandment: "Thou shall not steal."
- Take this away, and you would have 2.1 Billion more people trying to steal your car, children, etc, etc. Civilization would destroy itself from within. You should be thankful for these Christians to not steal anything from you. Yet they are taking in all the trash you are throwing at them, and only seek peace with you guys.

The 8th Commandment: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor"
- Take this away, and the percentage of liars and sinister people rise up by 2.1 Billion. Personally, If I did not follow this commandment, there would be no need for me to defend anyone innocent.

The 9th/10th Commandment: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods or wife/husband."
- Take the 9th Commandment away, and not much damage would contribute to society, however taking the 10th Commandment away would pull in for some adulterous relationships and filthy minds.

And lastly, take away one of Jesus' Greatest and Peaceful Commandments:
"Love others as yourself."
- Society ends up with 2.1 Billion more people who don't give a crap about people, and end up being ego-centric, cynical people who treat others with dirt.

The point I'm trying to convey here is that, there is no logic in taking away a person's belief in a God or His Laws. There is logic in following God.

People think taking away religion will create chaos and disorder.

Well...Taking away religion will give ALL of us one less thing to fight about.

As for the whole God thing. I don't believe in God as a conscious being ready to put someone into heaven or hell. I don't believe God as a being that is omnipotent and omniscient.

It's all too paradoxical, especially if you throw in the free will thing. (I'll explain if asked)

Now to Christianity, people believe in it because they believe in Jesus, who, was supposedly documented in history. However, I've read several times that this has been debunked, or at least debated thoroughly (I don't feel like looking up the sites as they've been a collecting of things I've read over the years).

Most people believe in God/religion because they want to feel entitled to something when their life is meaningless (when they're dead).

Let's say there wasn't a heaven or hell. Would you still believe in God, to do good? I'm unaffiliated, but I still do good. I base my morals off of no god or religion.

I will give you my personal beliefs here. I believe that there was an initial creational energy that started everything. This being is neutral, unconscious, unknowing. This energy is all part of us, and the universe as a whole is what makes up this "GOD." Good or bad, it doesn't matter, because in the end, we are just energy taking on different forms throughout eternity. When we die, we become digested, etc etc. It's a cycle.

I choose to do good, because it makes my existence, in this energetic form of a human, better and more tolerable. That's what's important to me. Whatever stage of life you're in, make it as meaningful and effective as you can. God or no god, it doesn't matter.

On Earth, Heaven can exist in your own mental state, as can hell.

I am not better than you, as we are all made of the same stuff. One.

I have a problem with religion and MSM "god" because it portrays those who believe it as "Better and more deserving." We are not entitled to anything but what we have right now.

Don't let religion blind you. You might need to meditate more, you might be thinking too much with a severely indoctrinated brain.

Picking on religion isn't going to reveal any truth for you and it's a losing battle.

Two dogs barking at each other. Energetically,in most cases, both believers and non believers are fueled by the same emotion when debating the existence of God. Hatred and Arrogance.

I wish both of you would take your fight to another planet.. One far away so our children never again have to see another drop of blood.

It takes an incredible amount of compassion and understanding to deal with someone who refuses to take the required steps to see over the mountain top. It's absolutely frustrating at times, watching the both of you fighting over belief systems when in reality, you need no system of belief.

Religion is like driving a car with your eyes closed, hoping you make the right turns.

Godlessness is like pushing a fully functioning car down the street not knowing that all you have to do is start the engine.

Both is operating with blind sight.

You are not your avatar.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by manbird12000]