Islamization, acceptable or not?

This is a very important thread, especially to the Europeans.

Here in America we don't have many issues with Islamization but I feel that sometime in our not so distant future we will have the same battle Europe is currently having upon this issue.

Some nations such as Belgium have voted to ban the Burqa along with the French legislature and president supporting the same. Many 'far-right' parties in Europe are gaining momentum based mostly upon the fact of immigration as Europeans are seeing their jobs taken and their cultures altered do to the influx of Arab immigrants.

So here is a set of questions. I don't want anyone to hold back on their opinion as long as they stay in accordance with ATS rules and regulations.

1. Can muslims truly be incorporated into western society?
2. Do they pose any threat to our national security?
3. Are they negatively affecting our traditional way of life?
4. Should we restrict immigration from the arab world?
5. Should other nations adopt strict rules regarding Islamic culture such as banning the Burqa, Minarets, and Sharia courts?

I am craving some input on this subject from a wide range of political affiliations and ethnic backgrounds. Whether you are American, Canadian, Austrian, British, Israeli or Aussie, I would like your opinion.

[edit on 5/1/10 by Misoir]

reply to post by Misoir


1. I dont think that every muslim can truly be incorporated into western life. The answer I say is none truly, just to degrees. To fully integrate would mean cessation of being muslim. It can be done to the extent that we live side by side practicing what each believes. To take a case I know from first hand experience.
I work with a lot of indians. I know not the same but there are similarities in diets and beliefs to do with diet. Within two years they all have gradually relaxed their own practices to do with food. The seikh guys I work with will now all eat beef occasionally now they live in Oz. The hindu fellas all will now eat some chicken and fish every now and then. This by no means makes them incorporated by any stretch. They still rarely talk to people outside their community. But they do like it here and like being able to make the choice how religiously (pardon the pun) to take their religious requirements. The few muslim guys i know feel the same about smoking and drinking.

2. I think only slightly more than any other group. There are various terrorist/paramilitary groups of various ethnic backgrounds that all pose a threat, from white power militias, islamic extremeists, serb hate spewers, and cypriot challenging armies, to name a few.

3. Only if you let them.

4. Only to the extent you would restrict it from the western or asian world. The truth is people who want to immigrate usually want to for a better life not to destroy it. There should however be restrictions on all immigration regarding levels for the obvious reasons of solving overcrowding and shortage in one location and just transfering them to another.

5. This is a hard one. I wish muslim countries would ban the burqua.

Hope this is what you wanted. Not much of an opinion i know, but its the only one i have.

The thing is: Not all people are the same. There are a lot of muslim extremists and crazy muslim who think that their way of life is the only right one. But there are also some nice people who can accept, that people life different. I even was in some muslim countries and people were nice, sure it were mostly tourist places but still. Not all muslims are crazy.

As for the questions:
1. I think they can, at least the younger generations are far more open and willing to accept western lifestyle and all the things. For the older generations....no way. In Germany we had enough killings, were parents killed their children because they lifed like german teens and not like muslims. Fathers or brothers killing daughter/sister because they had a german boyfriend. It's basically once a week in the newspaper, a new honour killing because a teen wasn't 'muslim enough' for their parents.

2. Not the majority, but like everywhere there are crazy people and terrorists but you can also find them in european people, american people...everywhere.

3. Do they? Why? I don't see it. I can still eat pork, i can still drink alcohol and i can still joke about mohammad. Of course they get louder every day and the South Park case shows that, but christians also did that in the 1970s with the Monty Python move Life of Brian, which even was banned in some countries.
the only thing that affects my way of life are the political correct people who think that everything is wrong.

4. Immigrations should generally be restricted in my oppinion. Not because i have anything against immigrants, but most countries handle immigration very poorly. People come over to a country but don't adapt to the rules, the life or the language but rather stick to their own people. They create their own societies and that will always cause problems.

5. In my oppinion all religious crap should be banned from public places. I don't wan't to see Burqas, i don't want to see crosses and other things outside of private homes or churches. Also religion should be banned from school, it just brainwashes little innocent children and that's not good.

Good or bad doesn't matter cos it aint gonna happen less than 2 mill Muslims about 58 mill none Muslims so this whole topic constantly getting raised is a total none issue, one might suspect dark motives on the part of those raising the said none issue.

Answers to your balanced and fair questions.

Yes
No
No
No
No



[edit on 1-5-2010 by Thepreye]

reply to post by Misoir


1. If they truely are Muslim....no way. I don't wanna hear about the youth, the religion of peace is anything but.

2.Yes they do, as has been proven time and again, are they the only ones, no? But yes, they do pose a risk.


3. Yes. Any time you have terrorist organizations such as C.A.I.R. dictating what is and is not accpeptable in our country, as well as extorting money and trying to dictate policy in this country, they are a threat to our way of life.

4. Not only should we restrict it, we should end it.

5.It's really up to these other countries....I think in the name of self preservation they should, but it's their call.

You didn't mention Muslims in your list of people who are welcome to respond, but I will anyway.

1) No. We do not wish to be. The ones who do are confused in matters of religion, which is unfortunately a lot of them.

2) As long as you are at war with the Islamic world and causing mischief in the Islamic world, supporting dictators and corrupt governments, and maintaining military bases in the Islamic world, you should not expect total peace, so yes, a possible threat. But again, see answer #1 and you see that many Muslims are confused and seduced by the West, so you would not find most of them a threat. Most who come to the West just want a job.

3) What is your traditional way of life? Is it going to Church? As a Muslim, if you will not become Muslim, then I encourage you to go to Church. But if by traditional, you mean people dressing and acting shamelessly. Using bad language, drugs, drinking, partying, etc. Then yes, we will negatively effect that in various ways, insha'Allah.

4) If you want, but you will only come off as racist, whether you are or not. And it won't protect because many Westerners are becoming Muslim and many of the people even getting arrested today for "Islamic Terrorism" are American citizens (two yesterday (one american citizen, and one american/aussie citizen)

5) Banning niqaab (you call it burqa, but it's called niqaab. burqa is something else), minaarets, and Shar'iah courts, restrict the practice of our religion. I am against this of course, but it's up to you.

Burqa is a face mask almost looks like an opera type thing.
Niqaab is the full face veil which most countries mean when mistakenly saying burqa.

Why do you need to see our women's faces? Obviously, by living in your countries, you cannot call it oppression. There might be the one odd husband who tells his wife she has to wear it, but the vast majority choose it since your law does not force them to wear it. It's actually more of a challenge to wear it in a western country since it is looked at as odd by many. And if for security reasons, obviously if they commit a crime you can run them through the process, just respect their religion and only allow women to handle them or see them. Do not force them to show themselves to men.

Minarets? Churches have high steeples with a cross on the top. But banning minarets is ok? In my opinion, this is nothing more than an attack on Islam.

Shar'iah courts: These are only for civil matters and they are optional for the people so what's the problem? If a Muslim commits a crime, then he is charged by the standard criminal court and local/state police. Why ban it? If the Muslims of the area wish to have a Shar'iah civil court to handle their matters, does it harm non-Muslims?

My personal opinion on the last one is that a Shar'iah court cannot exist within a Western society with western law. It's a bad hybrid attempt. Unless an area is wholly ruled by Shar'iah, living in a half-Shar'iah/half-Western law zone is the same as not having Shar'iah at all. It's wrong, but I guess for settling some small civil disputes, as a Muslim, I would rather to go a Shar'iah court than some kuffar court who may not understand our issues.