Islam: Does it belong in America?

reply to post by DarkspARCS

Edit~a question- what does it mean to you to be british?

regards

[edit on 1-5-2010 by FeatheredSerpent]

It means i can have my Freedom here whereas i wouldnt have my Freedom if some Islamic Group were in charge of the Country... you only have to look at Iran to see that...

I like the fact that i can do what i like...

I like it when i see women in short skirts down the street so i cn see their legs...

I like to see a womans face...

I like to chat to her face...

I like the fact that i don't have to answer to anyone and that i can get up and go about my business with no intereference from others trying to tell me what i can and can't do...

(Of course this last statement also refers the TPTB at present)

I don't like it when i see people in these Naqibs & Burqas... it just doesnt look right on our streets...

I also don't like it that a big divide has been set up here...

I live in a very mixed area but i just can't see any sense in what the Muslim Faith is about...

When i travel into central London i'm so grateful that i don't see any of these Opressed people about and am happy until i reach my home Town again...

It just doesn't fit here... if i was to travel to Eygpt or Iran then yeah it's their way of living and their dress so i'd live with it for my 2 weeks vacation... but i'm hardly going to visit Iran, not in this present climate... i'd probably get taken hostage and be told to convert or else...



[edit on 1-5-2010 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist]

The op post is filled with absolute falsehoods. It is just a bigoted ignorant rant

To name some of the falsehoods

The Prophet Muhammad certainly was a human being; he never claimed to be god or a god. He taught his followers that he received revelation from the divine as a human being to guide human beings.


The statement regarding viels

This is an outright lie.
In fact Muslim woman at the time of Muhammad DIDN’T WEAR VIELS


Your other false statements can be easily refuted by reminding that Christian and Jews for centuries lived in Muslim land and thrived compared to how christians treated others, in fact the Jews under the moors had great freedom, much better than under the catholic Spanish with the inquisition.

It was the medieval Muslims that brought Europe out of the dark ages; that are documented history.


This post is an example that this forum ATS unlike many others allows bigotry of the worst order in the name of free speech


To those who run this site, I say, that may get you a lot of members but it brings this forum down to a very low level of intelligence. I would suggest you re-think your policies that would allow a post of such ignorance and blatant and bigoted falsehoods.

To further illustrate the bigoted ignorance and narrow-mindedness of this op

One merely has to understand that all pre-modern religion of the world has in their pre-modern lore beliefs and practices that are anathema to modernity, Islam should not be singled out as anything unique in comparison to the other faiths..

Indeed the beliefs of pre-modern Christianity and Judaism [where even today many still adhere to] are more primitive or just as much than Islam if we analyze them, for instance.

Christianity for example states that people not Christian will burn in hell forever.

Where as in Islam it is believed that people will be judged according to their beliefs, and that hell is a temporary form of purification.

What belief here is the most reasonable?

Judaism: The Jews are gods chosen people

In Islam there is no designation of any national or racial superiority, only the people who do good to others are said to be nearest to God.

Which belief system makes the most sense?


Just think it is only a few decades when we in the west here were still stepped in pre-modern religiosity, such as the second class treatment of woman, prayer in the classroom, and ideas about homosexuality. This secular modernism is only a recent phenomenon.

Certainly the European west has met modernity before most of the Islamic countries, that granted, they are behind in the historical phenomena of secular modernity, but in many instances the west still has pockets of religious backwardness, such as the evangelicals, and the Israeli idea of God chosen people having the right to the land of Israel, and the many Dave Quraish and Jim Jones types, as well the Christians here who want to turn the clock back to a Christian era such as Pat Robertson and other evangelicals who want to teach that we are 6000 years old in the schools.

We need to shun hysterical bigotry and ignorance; and seek light, tolerance and understanding, IMO!

Before one goes about daming THE OTHER, look at yourself first.

It's funny that people still think the Quran is the same as Islam, this is totally not the case.

The Quran, is a very violent book, I will agree.

Islam is NOT a violent societal system or culture. Just like Christianity isn't or Judaism isn't.

When we look at what's in the Quran and apply it to all those who subscribe to Islam, we are making very ignorant statements.

I suggest you do a little reading into the two very different sects of Islam.

Sunni & Shi'a are very different, both in culture and philosophy.

I don't think ANY sort of organized religion belons in ANY open and free society. But we don't have an open and free society, so it only makes sense that we still have archaic religions to divide and conquer us into submission.

Personnal religion and belief is the only way forward. Any established attempt to organize such belief systems will always lead to abuse and control.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


You are right the Quran has some nasty things in it. I don't have to remind you of the old testament do I. Mass genocide of entire cities.

From Judaism I keep hearing and reading the same monstrosities which are even more repulsive.

The difference between Sunni & Shi'a are is only political.
One side believes a descendant of Mohamed should rule the other side thinks the one most fit for the job.
I learned it recently somewhere.

reply to post by DarkspARCS


I have read and heard propaganda similar to that in your OP, so I'm not going to review your links. Sorry.

But associating this propaganda with the majority of Islam is like saying Reverend Phelps represents Christianity and therefore we shouldn't have Christianity in the US. It's just more bigoted BS.

Also, I strongly support the First Amendment, so I believe in and staunchly support freedom of religion.

As far as Obama's brother. My brother is a born-again Christian. I'm atheist. How does it work that people who are related, even as distantly as Obama and his half-brother, automatically share the same beliefs again?

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

You are right the Quran has some nasty things in it. I don't have to remind you of the old testament do I. Mass genocide of entire cities.

From Judaism I keep hearing and reading the same monstrosities which are even more repulsive.

The difference between Sunni & Shi'a are is only political.
One side believes a descendant of Mohamed should rule the other side thinks the one most fit for the job.
I learned it recently somewhere.

I agree with everything you said. Except for the Sunni & Shi'a is only political.

I've met many of both cultures and they are truly different. Their interpretation of the Quran is different and their adherance to it is very different as well.

~Keeper

I live with Muslims and interact with them on a daily basis.

NOTHING of what you posted - and I mean NOTHING - have I ever encountered.

Just like with Christianity, only knowing and accepting a ONE WAY belief system - and will eradicate or ban to hell those who do not conform - so is Islamic ways.

Now, have I 'seen it all' with the Muslims I know?
Of course not.

But do I respect those that I know as loving family members, hard working people who live, die, hope, breath, sweat, lie, cry, laugh, have heart attacks, and on and on just like the rest of us? Yes, I do.

If people want peace it starts in your own heart.
Stop Muslim hate.
There are fanatics of all kinds, just not on 'their side of the mountain'.

peace

The Origins of the Sunni/Shia split in Islam
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What was the main disagreement between sunni and shi'a muslims?
how the leaders should be chosen -NovaNET answer Answer The Islamic religion was founded by Muhammed in the seventh century. In 622 he founded the first Islamic state, a theocracy in Medina, a...

It was a WIKI answer. But I 'm now with you on this

[edit on 5/1/2010 by Sinter Klaas]

Originally posted by Scarcer
but Islamic Leaders do not represent the common Muslim, as the Pope doesn't represent the common Christian, and as the U.S. President doesn't reflect the common American.
[edit on 1-5-2010 by Scarcer]

See, the problem with the common Muslim is that I do not see them protesting against Muslim extremism and how women are treated in their native countries and such.

Why do they not protest against these things? Are they happy to let these behaviours carry on and continue to tarnish the reputation of their religion?

Mind you, to be fair, they do protest sometimes, try naming a teddy bear Mohamed and see what happens.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
The Origins of the Sunni/Shia split in Islam
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What was the main disagreement between sunni and shi'a muslims?
how the leaders should be chosen -NovaNET answer Answer The Islamic religion was founded by Muhammed in the seventh century. In 622 he founded the first Islamic state, a theocracy in Medina, a...

It was a WIKI answer. But I 'm now with you on this

[edit on 5/1/2010 by Sinter Klaas]

No your right my friend. Technically that was the original divide, but since then it's evolved into two seperate cultures.

So were both 50/50 lol

~Keeper

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
As a Christian, I have no real problem with Islam as a spiritual faith. Many Muslims that I know, are honest, hard working, law abiding people that live quiet lives.

But then there are the crazies that wish to spread the word of Allah by force, and impose Sharia Law on everyone.
They want their thirteen virgins (or however many it is?).
Most of the really violent radical Islamic stuff is more political than religious.

I believe there is a place for Muslims in America, PROVIDED they realize they are Americans first, and not part of some holy army still fighting a jihad for the old country.

You conquer a country while people are asleep and in confort, like in Troy. Was Troy better off afterwords? Acording to the conquers it was. So who can say.

~ Whipes the cream pie filling off with a large towel ~

WHEW!... that was fun... now, onto round two..

Documented Evidence

special note: thnks to ATS member TruBlu, for providing the links to the video utilized in this section...

Many have contended that the derogatory atrocities commited by Islam have come from me, or that It is something that stems from my personal bias of Islam.

I'm only the messenger people, the things I've reported upon are in fact things that come directly from the horses mouth, and now I will provide the horse - so that Islam can tell you too, what it is all about...

Video #1:

Mosque in U.K. where extremist Islam is preaching Jihad, and the takeover of Great Britain

"If any man changes his religion "Kill him in Islam state"
"There is Jihad in Islam - What's the most beloved and favourite thing to Allah - Jihad in the name of Allah."

Google Video Link

Video #2: Reveals that Islam intends to conquer the entire world

Google Video Link

Video #3: Islamic cleric openly talks about their take over of parliament in U.K., and openly boasts about how much money they are creaming off the British and sending back to the their Arab homelands.




Video #4: Children being taught to kill the infidel from a very young age.




Video #5: Islam is not really about religion, but is an entire geopolitical, social, economic, and cultural system and much like Nazism it is a system of take over - an agenda.




Video #6: The breakdown of how Islam invades and takes control over countries.




Video #7: Actions and words from Islam:

"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam"

After a woman in Australia was gang raped by Muslims this comment was made: "Woman deserve to be raped if they don't cover their heads, as they are uncovered meat."

"The most dishonest unjust people are Western people and the English in particular."




Video # 8 & 9: Radical Islam in Europe






Video #10: How Islam treats Women. This woman is from Syria. She is talking about the Muslim faith and how it treats it's people, this is not radical Islam, this is simply ISLAM.





Video # 11, 12, & 13: Robert Spencer - The Complete Infidel's Guide To The Koran

Documentation

Sexual Perversion in Islam

Other forms of sexual abuse inflicted on children by Muslim male family members include fondling of genitals, coercing a child to fondle the abuser's genitals, masturbation with the child as either participant or observer, oral sex, anal or vaginal penetration by penis, finger or any other object. Another technique used by Muslim men is called "thighing". The child's legs are pressed together and the abuser inserts his penis between the thighs of the little boy or girl...

As this was how Mohammed had sex with his wife, Aisha, from the time she was six years old

The practice, of course, was approved of by Ayatollah Khomeini who in his Little Green Book asserted "It is not illegal for an adult male to 'thigh' or enjoy a young girl who is still in the age of weaning; meaning to place his penis between her thighs, and to kiss her"” Yes, indeed, you can be a good Muslim while copulating with the thighs of an infant.

The Grand Ayatollah's full ruling on marriage can be found here:

Ayatollah Khomeini's Religious Teachings on Marriage, Divorce and Relationships

"A woman may legally belong to a man in one of two ways; by continuing marriage or temporary marriage. In the former, the duration of the marriage need not be specified; in the latter, it must be stipulated, for example, that it is for a period of an hour, a day, a month, a year, or more."

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

The institution of "temporary marriage" appears to be designed to facilitate prostitution...

Quotes from the Koran:

And now, here are some quotes found in the koran, for your viewing pleasure:

Sura 3 verse 28:

"A Muslim shall not befriend a non Muslim."

It further says "If they befriend a non Muslim, Allah will cut them off from himself."

Sura 98 verse 6:

"People of the book that means Jews, Christians and Shalobayays are the most evil of all creatures."

Qur'an 9:29:

009.029

YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

So you see, the things I've disclosed here aren't necessarily my ideas, but are direct quotes and belifs directly from Islam itself. more can be pondered upon, however again, I ask the question :

Islam: Does it Belong in America?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
[
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No your right my friend. Technically that was the original divide, but since then it's evolved into two seperate cultures.

So were both 50/50 lol

Well that's what I meant. I just did not know about the rest. yet.

I mean the difference is big enough to kill for.

Always nice to learn new things . Thank you.

Theo van Gogh. R.i.P. dikke gek. Had je maar niet zo'n grote bek moeten hebben.

Van Gogh was murdered by only one guy. Theo had a big mouth and a regular alias for Muslims was 'geiten neuker' ( Goat #er ).

Tell that to a full fledged indoctrinated young Muslim , as radical as you can get , along with the fact it is in the quran. He set out to make an example of him.

I do not approve or whatever is taking place or is said , is a good enough reason for murder. I would not loose a night sleep if they make an example out of him...But...Theo had it coming. He knew there were people capable of this act, he was warned and he was threatened. Still he didn't stop insulting, offending and provoking.
Look I'm all for freedom of speech. But I believe there are two boundaries.

1. Actions or words should not harm anyone physically or mentally.
2. Tolerance.

I do not want to sound all goody two shoes here and I do think that there are a lot of problems we need to solve. This will never happen if we let ourselves be manipulated. ...

We are all in the same mess here and the fact remains that we are not alone on this world. We need to coexist or blow each other up. The blowing up part is not my idea of making myself useful well... maybe as maggot food.

Christianity doesn’t belong in America

REMEMBER IT WAS CHRISTIANS WHO MURDERED THE NATIVE AMERICANS AND ENSLAVED AFRICANS AND CAUSED MILLIONS OF THEIR DEATHS!

IT WAS CHRITIANS WHO COLONIZED THE THIRD WORLD.
Did the inquisition
Denied science
murdered the south american indians

Hitler was a Christian

Kind Leopold who worked 10 million Africans to death was a Christian

The ignorant one who is a bigot posting other Islamic haters has no intelligence behind him, only his own mental illness and obsession is at work.

Get some therapy


[edit on 1-5-2010 by inforeal]

Click here for more information.

reply to post by inforeal


Hitler was Christian ?

Got any proof ?

Kind Leopold who worked 10 million Africans to death was a Christian. ?

Don't forget to mention that Leopold colony was private property and He kept it a secret.

Don't go making the same mistakes you are putting up for disscusion.

I do agree with you here