Arizona has done the nation a favor.

Originally posted by jimsmagnum
[It's about time someone took the riens to stop this mass invasion of illegals. This is the best thing that has happened in a long time @ immigration reform. Our lazy do nothing leaders of our country need to get off thier backsides and do something right for a change. And this has no Nazi themes at all...

If they really wanted to stop this mass invasion of illegals, they would penalize anyone hiring illegal immigrants.

Also- Why would Arizona, The State that was first to stand up with this issue, ruin all of it by police profiling? What would they gain by something like that? NOTHING. It will ruin their cause and THEY KNOW THIS. You act like they havent thought of this already. They are not going to spend Millions if not billions of dollars on something just to have it screwed up by a local racist deputy. The law will be on their side on this one, count on it.

Its not a police state, and it wont ever be, the CITIZENS will make sure of that. The CITIZENS will make sure that everything is handled appropriately. We already know they have no problem taking care of their issues unlikes some other states.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by Common Good]

I humbly apologise for the conflicting thoughts in your mind now, as you attempt to reassure yourself that you can contain the demons from the Pandora box you had supported to open.

Like you, I too desire for social control and protection. Currently it has the means to do so and approved by society under the sacred Constitution, although already much dirtied by the Homeland Gestapo Acts.

However, with the Nazification of Arizona, you may not have realize the longer term effects not only to the illegals, but to the very fibre of civilised society.

Allow me to show you what happens when you allow Schutzstaffel SS style of operations and powers in a democratic republic. It goes beyond just 'papers please'.

Today it is the illegal and legal immigrants. Tomorrow the blacks and Indian natives, the chinese. Next day will be your turn.

Anything WILL be an excuse to check on you, not just on the streets, but in your homes as well, a total and absolute loss of your privacy even though it is your right to quiet enjoyment and peace as a citizen.

The Schutzstaffel SS police, who may just simply have a bad day, has the power to screw you rightly and you cannot complain, citizen or non-citizen, because you gave them the power to do so.

Worse if he is criminally or crooked minded - citizen or non- citizen will get hell. Even nitemarish if someone poses as an SS officer.

And this is only the low level operator using the instrument of fear and repression you gave him. I have not touched on the higher level operators, from the officers to the Commanders, who holds even wider powers!

When you surrender your rights and power for social protection, it is only comprehensible for all men who desire peace. In the hands of perfect man, all will be well and is an oxymoron because perfect man will have no need for social protection. They will know their responsibilities to society.

But unfortunately, mortal man is not perfect. Today and tomorrow, the good results will be staggering - thousands caught and deported, to impress you the voter.

Later, the tentacles of corruption creeps in, stripping you of every right till you are no more than a serf your forefathers had been by those in power. RFID chips, etc - all forms of control to track, monitor and repress you, if you so much as utter a whisper of discontent.

It will be too late to change, for such changes will involve bloodshed, which must NOT be allowed to happen.

This is no fantasy. This had happened before. It's called the Third Reich that your grandfather had sacrificed his life to topple to ensure freedom for mankind.

Do consider carefully what you have done and supported. There are other humane solutions that human potential in good men can discuss further with patience and insight, and come up with rather than resorting to Gestopo tactics.
Heil Arizona !!!
Sieg heil !!!!


[edit on 1-5-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

You mean LEGAL AMERICANS who look Mexican who are WALKING, STANDING, or DOING ANYTHING ELSE THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO ALREADY BE CARRYING ID WITH YOU?

Seriously? Posts like yours only highlight the ignorance in support of this law.

So what is your solution to the illegal immigration problem? I'm sure it's brilliant, so I really can't wait to hear it!

America poofs out its chest and declares itself the toughest country in the world, but really we are a doormat. Illegals can bully citizens and there is little cops can do about it.

Enough is enough is enough. Go ahead and slap the word "ignorant" on to that. You just sound like South Park's version of Michael Jackson anyway.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Again simply tell me what other country doesn't have immigration laws and DOESN'T deport/prosecute the ILLEGALS in their borders? Cmon...and you still haven't told me...if we are NAZI's for doing what EVERY other country does, then that makes the entire world Nazi's by your feelings right?

Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

Again simply tell me what other country doesn't have immigration laws and DOESN'T deport/prosecute the ILLEGALS in their borders? Cmon...and you still haven't told me...if we are NAZI's for doing what EVERY other country does, then that makes the entire world Nazi's by your feelings right?

It is not what is being done, it is how it is being done. There are many ways to enforce the borders. Just because someone might wish to use a different tact does not mean they wish to open the borders.

And by the way...for ALL the members who still haven't educated themselves on the new AZ law....they need probable cause to stop and ask "for papers", as you guys like to put it, NOT just randomly walk up and ask.....gee how nice...AZ IS following the constitutional guidelines set...but yeah we know...they are still hitler in your eyes.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by rcwj1975
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

Again simply tell me what other country doesn't have immigration laws and DOESN'T deport/prosecute the ILLEGALS in their borders? Cmon...and you still haven't told me...if we are NAZI's for doing what EVERY other country does, then that makes the entire world Nazi's by your feelings right?

It is not what is being done, it is how it is being done. There are many ways to enforce the borders. Just because someone might wish to use a different tact does not mean they wish to open the borders.

Please explain WHAT is being done and HOW we are doing it that is so evil compared to EVERY OTHER NATION on earth?

Originally posted by Alora
So what is your solution to the illegal immigration problem? I'm sure it's brilliant, so I really can't wait to hear it!

Ah, finally. I hate when you guys take so long to finally resort to this. Unless I have the perfect solution, everything else I say is worthless, right? Is that how this is supposed to work?

America poofs out its chest and declares itself the toughest country in the world, but really we are a doormat. Illegals can bully citizens and there is little cops can do about it.

Illegals can bully cops? When and where does this go down?

Enough is enough is enough. Go ahead and slap the word "ignorant" on to that. You just sound like South Park's version of Michael Jackson anyway.

If you say so. Look, I am sorry that you do not see the difference between this new bill and you being pulled over while operating a motor vehicle but unfortunately, that is ignorant. Call me Michale Jackson from South Park if you think that response makes you seem more intelligent or informed then.

reply to post by rcwj1975


Ask "for papers"?

An idea that's a bit too late, for some poor indigenous folks...

blogs.ajc.com...

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Please explain WHAT is being done

I thought you were talking about protecting borders? No? Am I the only one reading your posts? Go ahead, there is one on this page. If you follow along from one thought to another it makes it easier to keep up.

and HOW we are doing it that is so evil compared to EVERY OTHER NATION on earth?

Which other countries introduced or have implemented legislation that allows police to ask for proof of citinceship from ANYONE, ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, DOING ANY LEGAL THING?

Originally posted by rcwj1975
And by the way...for ALL the members who still haven't educated themselves on the new AZ law....they need probable cause to stop and ask "for papers", as you guys like to put it, NOT just randomly walk up and ask.....gee how nice...AZ IS following the constitutional guidelines set...but yeah we know...they are still hitler in your eyes.

Better read it again. This time, read it out loud for the whole class to hear so we can see where you are messing up.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by rcwj1975

 

Ask "for papers"?

An idea that's a bit too late, for some poor indigenous folks...

blogs.ajc.com...

The comparison of NOW to back then really is a stretch. Considering resources were plentyful and space was unlimited. The population during the revolution, minus the native americans, was 500,000 people...thats it. Now the population is 300,000,000 PLUS the 20 million ILLEGALS....resources are dwindilling, economies falling, etc....that is the REALITY and the NOW....if this was 1770 I highly doubt it would be such an issue. I agree the Natives were here first, but again, what good does that argument do when things have changed DRASTICALLY since?

Also, do you really think America is the ONLY land/country taken by force that now has borders and laws? Doesn't Mexico ask people for their papers...or can you just go there as a white guy and do whatever you want without ever being "talked too"?

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by rcwj1975

 

Ask "for papers"?

An idea that's a bit too late, for some poor indigenous folks...

blogs.ajc.com...

The comparison of NOW to back then really is a stretch.

When was "back then?" I looked at that joke and did not see any reference to 1770.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by Taupin Desciple

 

I agree with your idea of it, just the implementation.

Since we cannot speak of it, I will just say, look into the fact that a president of the United States was able to do something awhile back.

Now, why cannot I. Is there an Amendment that has been added that I do not know about?

The only law that was in effect for a citizen based on the Constitution.

You have absolute rights of Life, Liberty and Property (POH). The only criminal act is if you hurt another or infringe on their inherent rights.

I say it is time a state has the BALLS to take this one step further. And make all STATUTES that infringe on everyone's rights to be abolished.

I say it is way past the time that all citizens that think that our government has gone off the deep end, to call for us to follow our hearts and our minds and say enough!

I want all of my rights back. I want my fellow freedom lovers to UNDERSTAND what these corrupt bastards have taken from us. People do not understand that this government and their minions have destroyed our liberties. They have destroyed self determination. They have taken our very ability to say I am pissed and I am NOT going to take it anymore!

I call for a move back to individual sovereignty. To individual freedom. To individual liberty.

And for the most important, to individual RESPONSIBILITY!

I Totally AGREE with the OP of this thread.
I also agree with you here but I do want to make one thing absolutely clear.

The American People will not RISE UP against the SLAVERY and TYRANNY they live under UNTIL every resemblance of their FREEDOMS are GONE !

Then and ONLY then, will they RISE UP and take back their FREEDOM and their LIBERTY from the TYRANTS who stole it away, and they will do so at the barrel of a gun because it is the only thing that TYRANTS understand and fear.

As long as the CONSTITUTION of the State and the US Constitution are in sync with one another, Arizona has every right to do what they are doing.
The US Civil War in the 1800's is proof enough that the States have their rights that are not given over to the Federal Government. Since the Feds have failed to act since 2001 on Immigration issues, the States now have the RIGHT to impose whatever sanctions they want to in order to control illegal immigration and the raping, pillaging and plundering of our State economies.

There are only 3 ways in which to fix the illegal immigration problem:

1.) Illegal Aliens should be immediately deported and shot on sight if trying to cross back into our country illegally.

2.) Totally close off the border and allow no one to cross it period.

3.) Annex Mexico into the United States, take down and destroy their corrupt government and make them all 14th Amendment citizens of the UsA, thus also taking their natural resources and tourism as our own. It would give us new oil supplies and new places to vacation to. We could then use the US Military to kick the ass out from underneath the Drug Cartels and put them out of business and out of their misery, ending a huge part of our drug problem once and for good.

[edit on 5/1/2010 by Evisscerator]

why don't they just change the social welfare and public program to people who have legal status here o.0?

I think that would just solve part of the problem already.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Ah, finally. I hate when you guys take so long to finally resort to this. Unless I have the perfect solution, everything else I say is worthless, right? Is that how this is supposed to work?

So...nothing, then? You've got nothing? I wasn't asking for perfection, just an idea, a theory, a viable solution....

No, not everything you say is worthless, but I don't believe it is actually a counterpoint without the counter argument. Poo-pooing on the new law is fine, insulting others who don't squat on it isn't a shining example of your intelligence, though, since you seem to want that kept into play.

I like this law and stand behind my original point. America has become a doormat. If this law offends criminals (i.e. illegal immigrants) then so be it. If you don't like it then go to another country and see how warmly you are welcomed there.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by rcwj1975
And by the way...for ALL the members who still haven't educated themselves on the new AZ law....they need probable cause to stop and ask "for papers", as you guys like to put it, NOT just randomly walk up and ask.....gee how nice...AZ IS following the constitutional guidelines set...but yeah we know...they are still hitler in your eyes.

Better read it again. This time, read it out loud for the whole class to hear so we can see where you are messing up.

I have read it again...including the amendment made...apparently you have not.

reply to post by drwizardphd


well, we pretty much already live in a "papers please" society. anyone stopped by the police must be able to produce valid ID or else run the risk of being detained until their identity can be proven.

anyone younger than 18 must be at home or under adult supervision by midnight, and any adult must be able to produce ID after midnight. generally some sort of probable cause must be established before the police become interested. thing is, just walking down the street after midnight can easily land one in the 'suspicious behavior' camp.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


There seems to be quite a lot of disinformation on this part of the law. Both federal and state law requires that the person have already been legally stopped and during the course of that stop probable cause was found to question the person’s immigration status. So the idea of the Gestapo coming up to someone standing on the street and asking for papers is moot. Further there are federal regulations dictating that non US citizens in this country have in their possession visas, passports, ECT, and be prepared to produce such document upon request by authorized personnel.

Finally, if we had half a million Icelanders, all blond haired and blue eyed, streaming across our borders and causing the same problems, the mantra we would be hearing would be quite different. “Hey officer, why are you stopping me? Do I look Icelandic?”

Originally posted by Alora
So...nothing, then? You've got nothing? I wasn't asking for perfection, just an idea, a theory, a viable solution....

I never said I had nothing. In fact I have already answered this question to some degree in one of the other 40 threads about this bill floating around. If you really want answers, I have them for you. I just do not see how flipping the program answers my questions or addresses what I said. To me, it simply looks like you ran out of arguments and decided that your last refuge was to paint me as still the lesser for not readily jumping at your last dying command. I will find my other post and U2U a link if that makes you happy. I would rather stay on track here and you are doing a wonderful job of introducing distractions.

No, not everything you say is worthless, but I don't believe it is actually a counterpoint without the counter argument. Poo-pooing on the new law is fine, insulting others who don't squat on it isn't a shining example of your intelligence, though, since you seem to want that kept into play.

I am not sure what squatting on it means. My "insults" were simply pointing out that your comparison of laws already on the books and this entirely NEW BILL was one lacking in information. That is called ignorance. If you took it to heart, you need to look it up.

A counter argument would be if I came in here and said that all proposals to fix illegal immigration are bad. Then it would make sense if I had a good one to argue with. That is not what I said so asking me to counter it is shifting the conversation away from what I originally asked, stated, and the clear lack of understanding you pointed out with your comparison.

I like this law and stand behind my original point. America has become a doormat. If this law offends criminals (i.e. illegal immigrants) then so be it. If you don't like it then go to another country and see how warmly you are welcomed there.

I could care less what criminals think or feel about this law. I must be guessing you do not live in AZ or could not be mistaken for Hispanic. The people I care about are the people that are also Americans like you and me. The people that will be stopped and harrassed because of what they look like even though they were born here just like me or came here LEGALLY like my grandparents. The people I care about being "offended" as you call it - illegally searched and detained I call it - are American citizens.