Arizona has done the nation a favor.

reply to post by daddio


You are SO right ,i even got the spelling of sheriff wrong,
its the principal i was getting at

It starts off as a bully who takes others things,
this can be from someone who,s intelligence is superior taking advantage of others ignorence ,deception (could be called a lawyer), or giving a few beans for a cow ,a conman,many crooks have many names,but we have to be exact so as not to offend.yes we MUST get our facts (or is it fax)right, i did say it depends on which side of the fence you are on.
maybe you are one of the educated ones that laugh at us ignorant ones, you know the ones that are downtrodden ,because we ain,t as clever as u.

Originally posted by jeffiriff
Yeah thanks AZ. Now you are going to force the migration of illegals into your surrounding states. How very American.....

Your right, this is probably going to happen, unless the surrounding states follow Arizona's lead. Arizona did the hard part, they were first. It should now be easier for other states to follow their example.


While this law definitely has its flaws, hopefully it will force the Fed's hand in stepping up federal immigration laws. If there were proper federal immigration laws in place the states wouldn't have to protect themselves and handle it themselves at such an extreme level.


Oh wait...... Dammit I forgot. Big business LIKES illegal immigrants, which means Big Brother does too.

[It's about time someone took the riens to stop this mass invasion of illegals. This is the best thing that has happened in a long time @ immigration reform. Our lazy do nothing leaders of our country need to get off thier backsides and do something right for a change. And this has no Nazi themes at all...

At first, without thinking to much on the bill I was for this, but honestly the more I think about it the worse it gets. I understand that the border states have issues with illegals and am not denying that. The fact is Phoenix, yes Phoenix (the place where old people go to retire) has become one of the world's best places to kidnap people due to illegal immigrants involved in the drug trade. I do believe something has to be done about it, but am not sure this is the answer.

For one, how are you going to prove you are a citizen? License? SS card? Birth cert? All of these can be faked. I stronly believe that this is going to turn into a "We need the Federal I.D.'s and we need them now!" movement. Everybody knows that its not hard to fake the above id's and pretty soon the cops are either going to be kicking out people who they think are illegal when in fact they are actually legal. This will open up a whole can of worms and it will get ugly and I can only see the Federal ID's as the goto solution.

Second, lets not forget the economy. Bare with me bleeding-heart libs for a sec. Im not racist. But lets me honest for a second, who is going to do the labor that this country needs? Honestly, who is going to do it? I can garauntee that legal immigrants to this country, or even natural born citizens are not wanting to go to the fields to pick strawberries in Plant City, FL, or cull the grapes in Cali or even do the contstruction work that this country does for the pay that the illegals do. Lets be honest now, prices of basic goods are going to skyrocket if we start kicking out these people left and right.

The other solutions that Ive seen so far arent the answer either. Amnesty will only create an even larger welfare state (yes libs, it will) since we just let people go on welfare without real regulations or viable ways to get off of it after they go on it.

Legalizing drugs across the board (from coke to marijuana) isnt the answer either. I do feel like marijuana should be legalized, but seriously, coke? I live in Florida, the drug capital of the world people, legalizing hard drugs IS NOT THE ANSWER...trust me. If you dont believe me, you can come and visit and Ill just show you a couple towns where it has become and epidemic and has continued to be so.

Annexing the top part of Mexico aint the answer either. Or even all of Mexico for that fact. After we do so, then what? The problem the mexicans are having is that the mexicans dont stand up for or enforce their own laws to well and have way more corruption on the street level then we could even imagine having here in the United States. Lets say that the Mexican people themselves actually want to be annexed by the US (which they dont), who is going to make sure that the corruption is not going on? The very same mexican people that are letting it happen now? Just because they will have the backing of the US gov doesnt mean that will stand up when a drug dealer shows up on your door step with an ak and says let us do what we want or we will get your family. Just the truth speaking here.

To me, the only real answer is to start policing the boarders more efficiently. That means having a state run militia (not the damn national guard) that not only have the power to stop people from coming across the boarders but to also start doing investigations in drug rings that cross the boarders. And honestly, if you have to, follow them into mexico. There have been reports of mexican troops escorting drug runners across the boarders (www.liveleak.com...), so why not have our guys go over there and take care of business? We dont have to stay there and occupy Mexico, truthfully, who would want to? But, we could do an ole Barbary War thing and just send some dudes down there and give them an offer they cant refuse. Of course the next step would be to get rid of the whole welfare state thing, but that is done by votes.

reply to post by drwizardphd

You see, the Arizona legislation violates the Constitution.

Not true at all .. not one bit of it does.. the issue with "racial profiling" is a bunch of BS being bandied about by hyper liberals because they have no other argument except "we just don't want the USA to have a border at all!"

Illegal Aliens are 95% "Hispanic" .. because of this problem, naturally Hispanics will be targeted more than anyone else, especially if you have an accent. If you have an accent, you get pulled over, cop says show your ID you have two options. Be a good lad an show the cop your ID (YOU HAVE TO @#%^ DO THIS ALREADY .. or be an ignorant prick and get sent to lock up where it will be determined whether or not you really are a citizen. If you are, you can get charged with failure to obey an officer, resisting arrest and god, I wish there was a law for ignorance, but theres not. If you're an Alien, get put in line for deportation, documented, and sent on your merry way. AZ is close to the border, you'll be back in America next week no doubt.

It infringes upon the rights of Arizona's citizens.

BUZZZZ --- WRONG

The US Constitution does not protect against being asked for identification. there is no statement what so ever that says AZ cannot check ID's at traffic stops. In fact in every state it's already a law that states you must have some form of ID while dealing with police. If you do not, a SS number and an address will suffice.. if your SS number comes up as a little old lady in St. Petersburg FL and you're a 21 year old Hispanic male driving a stolen truck under her name .. well by God it may hurt your little Liberal feelings, but that dirt bags getting locked up.

This is the first step towards a national ID card. How so many people can't see that is beyond me.

There's nothing wrong with a National ID Card. I'm an American, damn proud of it. I'll gladly carry a credit card sized piece of plastic that says so.

Progressivist are a curse on society. Siding with criminals and against America is a favorite pastime .. and it's hilarious it's done on the pretext of "protecting" people from the massive government you guys built.. but it serves mega corporations more than the people you claim to protect.

Its happening all over the world,we are being flooded by third world people everywhere because they can't sort their own countries out,the uk is now a third world ghetto

To be honest, it does look like Arizona is turning to nazism ( socialism, fascism WHATEVER YOU MAY CALL IT), it is such a huge problem that needed to be addressed. Mexico's problem is very much pouring in to the US. And the US did nothing to stop it until now. Mexico is obviously to blame for such problems but not even they can control it. So laws need to get passed to abolish this problem even if it requires police asking for your ID.

What can you do about it. It will reduce cheap labor and give more jobs to Americans.

I think a good question to ask for you people out there is : WHAT WOULD YOU DO ABOUT THE GROWING PROBLEM IN THE BORDERING STATES OF MEXICO?

[edit on 1-5-2010 by fordrew]

I fail to see how this is any different than what the border
patrol is already doing in this country. What with checkpoints
miles inland from the border. They are profiling everyone or
asking for papers and yet people are making countless threads
over something that is already happening.

It is about diversion and division. Get a grip!

Way to go AZ!

Score one for the citizens.

Originally posted by AlternateEnding

It is about diversion and division. Get a grip!

Get a broad view!

It's about diverting tax dollars to those who need it and rightfully deserve it and dividing it among those who actually PAY TAXES!

Let me see if I am following this logic so far...

1- The Federal Government is evil because it is too big and does too much.
2- The Federal Government under Obama is more evil because it wants to be bigger and do more.
3- The Federal Government is evil because it did not do enough for Arizona.
4-The Federal Government is evil because it forced Arizona to do what it did by its inaction on the things Arizona wants it to do.
5-This bill is a good thing because it woke up the Federal Government and will get them to do more.

Is that about it?

I have to say that I cannot agree more. While the Federal Government was wasting time with unemployment throughout the entire country, it should have dropped all that to run down to Arizon and fix this apparently brand new and suddenly bad problem. Screw them other 49 states anyway.

Amazing, if they took that passion back to Mexico they might actually be able to fix that country. Of course if they held that same sort of protest in Mexico City they would be dodging tear gas, rubber bullets, and baton beatings.

There is a an old semi-racist joke that asks "How come there is no Mexican swimming team in the Olympics? Because everyone that can swim has crossed the Rio." There is some kernel of truth to this in that most that come across the border are the good hard-working people of Mexico. It takes a great deal of initiative and drive to make the trek.

Over the past 30 years the Mexican government has allowed its country to empty itself of millions of people that are good motivated workers. They did this so that they could maintain the status quo and not reform itself to create opportunities for these people. Now we are seeing the results of this in that Mexico is becoming a narco-state. The balance of the country is now tipping over in favor of the lazy and corrupt. Difficult to maintain any sort of country when you've emptied your shores of anyone that is worth a damn.

Several responses to my thread have brought up the argument that this law leads us down the abhorrent path to a police state, with the “Gestapo” stopping anyone they choose and reciting the infamous phrase “papers please”. Let’s look at that argument for a moment. The argument can be made that this part of the law is no more onerous in this respect than current state and federal regulations that exist. Let’s take my day yesterday as an example.
My wife, son and I went shopping for my son a new car. At the lot we found one we wanted to test drive. “Why of course sir, no problem, “papers please!” And both I and my son had to produce our driver’s licenses. At the bank where we went to get the loan for the car, once again “papers please” was the catchword and We were required to produce papers; only in this case it went even further, by requiring us to produce ss numbers, bank account statements, and credit history. After buying the new car we went to get it registered and once again the ubiquitous phrase “papers please” was again uttered by the state, requiring that we prove residence in the county and state. Finally, going out to dinner to celebrate our purchase and the fact that we had once again successfully negotiated the maze of plutocratic paperwork and regulations, we order drinks. Alas we had not heard the last of the Gestapo that day. “So you would like a drink, very well, but first, I see that your son looks quite young, “papers please”.

It seems that we are asked for our papers quite a lot these days, and not just to officers of the state, In fact it seems to me that the only time I don’t have to produce my papers is when I go to vote!

Originally posted by eyeswilldeceive
Its happening all over the world,we are being flooded by third world people everywhere because they can't sort their own countries out,the uk is now a third world ghetto

This thread is, though indirectly, about Mexico, and Mexico is not a poor country.
Check this out:
www.limitstogrowth.org...

Mexico is actually a very, very rich country:
209.157.64.200...

Originally posted by Phedreus
Several responses to my thread have brought up the argument that this law leads us down the abhorrent path to a police state, with the “Gestapo” stopping anyone they choose and reciting the infamous phrase “papers please”. Let’s look at that argument for a moment. The argument can be made that this part of the law is no more onerous in this respect than current state and federal regulations that exist. Let’s take my day yesterday as an example.
My wife, son and I went shopping for my son a new car. At the lot we found one we wanted to test drive. “Why of course sir, no problem, “papers please!” And both I and my son had to produce our driver’s licenses. At the bank where we went to get the loan for the car, once again “papers please” was the catchword and We were required to produce papers; only in this case it went even further, by requiring us to produce ss numbers, bank account statements, and credit history. After buying the new car we went to get it registered and once again the ubiquitous phrase “papers please” was again uttered by the state, requiring that we prove residence in the county and state. Finally, going out to dinner to celebrate our purchase and the fact that we had once again successfully negotiated the maze of plutocratic paperwork and regulations, we order drinks. Alas we had not heard the last of the Gestapo that day. “So you would like a drink, very well, but first, I see that your son looks quite young, “papers please”.

It seems that we are asked for our papers quite a lot these days, and not just to officers of the state, In fact it seems to me that the only time I don’t have to produce my papers is when I go to vote!

All of your examples are of circumstances where you are conducting private business fully aware that you will either have to produce said items to enjoy that busines or...

and this is important...

HAVE THE RIGHT TO WALK AWAY.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


KJ - What an incredible job the Federal government is doing on unemployment too! Siphoning more money from the private sector so that we can fill potholes, paint military bases, and put solar panels on government buildings. I'm sure my grandkids will thank me someday for putting them in debt for all these great works.

If you want to twist the comments thats your right but overall the frustration is that the Federal Government wants to have a hand in everything except the one thing that it really needs to be concerned with, protect our borders.

This week it was reported that the Federal Government wants black boxes (ie...tracking devices in every car) and a National ID card for every citizen...yet the very thought of asking someone that can't speak English for proof of citizenship after committing a crime is 'misguided'. I wanna puke.

Originally posted by NumberNone
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

KJ - What an incredible job the Federal government is doing on unemployment too! Siphoning more money from the private sector so that we can fill potholes, paint military bases, and put solar panels on government buildings. I'm sure my grandkids will thank me someday for putting them in debt for all these great works.

I am not seeing any facts or data to back that up. Why is that? Maybe beause jobs are actually finally returning to the private sector after all this time and those facts would interfere with your rant.

So you are suggesting the Federal Government stop working on jobs at the federal level and go put all its effort into making one State happy? Seriously?

If you want to twist the comments thats your right but overall the frustration is that the Federal Government wants to have a hand in everything except the one thing that it really needs to be concerned with, protect our borders.

You mean it wants to have a hand in everything except what you want it to have a hand in? Be honest. You do not want smaller government, you want different government. Go vote.

What did I twist anyway?

This week it was reported that the Federal Government wants black boxes (ie...tracking devices in every car) and a National ID card for every citizen...yet the very thought of asking someone that can't speak English for proof of citizenship after committing a crime is 'misguided'. I wanna puke.

They both seem misguided but only the latter is reality. You definitely seem confused. Now the Federal Government's idea makes you want to puke but Arizona has a great idea because the Federal Government had no idea? Arizona logic is fun!

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

All of your examples are of circumstances where you are conducting private business fully aware that you will either have to produce said items to enjoy that busines or...

and this is important...

HAVE THE RIGHT TO WALK AWAY.

Ok then, if I get pulled over for suspicion of a traffic violation I will get asked for my "papers". What happens if I don't have them? I get punished. I will get punished and I will STILL have to provide my papers to a court so that I don't get punished even more.

I suppose I can walk away from the cop or from the courts, but then the punishment will be even worse.

I can understand that it will be an annoyance to those LEGAL citizens of the country who are or just look Mexican, but produce your ID and get on with your life.

Originally posted by Alora
Ok then, if I get pulled over for suspicion of a traffic violation I will get asked for my "papers". What happens if I don't have them?

That law is already on the books. You need to be carrying your legal driver's license with you when operating a motor vehicle on public roadways.

As it stands, if you get pulled over or an illegal gets pulled over, you will both get asked for your papers. That is how that all works...ALREADY.

How does this new law help with that situation?

I get punished. I will get punished and I will STILL have to provide my papers to a court so that I don't get punished even more.

Are you trying to say that at the moment if you were pulled over and had no license because you were an illegal alien they would let you go?

I suppose I can walk away from the cop or from the courts, but then the punishment will be even worse.

You are still talking about current law. I am talking about this NEW BILL.

I can understand that it will be an annoyance to those LEGAL citizens of the country who are or just look Mexican, but produce your ID and get on with your life.

You mean LEGAL AMERICANS who look Mexican who are WALKING, STANDING, or DOING ANYTHING ELSE THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO ALREADY BE CARRYING ID WITH YOU?

Seriously? Posts like yours only highlight the ignorance in support of this law.

Originally posted by daddio
You are absolutely correct in this statement. People here DO NOT understand the 10 Amendment at all. ALL POLITICAL POWER IS INHERENT IN THE PEOPLE. That is you and I. I WILL NEVER show any documentation I may have to show I am an AMERICAN. I have no drivers license as YOU DO NOT NEED ONE. I AM NOT a person, corporate fiction, entity, individual, nor any other "fictional entity" which the federal or state government may label me to enforce ILLEGAL regulations or code and ordinance UPON MY SOVEREIGN BEING!!!! I am a flesh and blood living soul!!!! Period.

This is exactly what TPTB wanted all along, a way to enforce the NATIONAL ID CARD and implement the installation of computer chips in all of us.

Problem, REACTION and then THEIR solution. Gullible idiots here!!!

Sad day when people who call themselves Americans can so easily be manipulated into believing this garbage.

YOU ARE NOT A U.S. citizen, I wll scream that at the top of my lungs!!! Wake the hell up already for everyones sake, you are buying into the scam hook, line and sinker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And if this is about paying taxes, I don't do that either, learn about your trust account, you are all millionaires and don't even know it!!

The Redemption Manual, read the damn thing!!!!!

loveforlife.com.au...

All this fluff, but let me ask you...how is it your using the internet? My guess...you gave your name and DOB and other personal information to a company to provide you access....or maybe you gave your name and DOB to get a library card to use it there..or do you pay any bills to companies, do you pay TAXES....bottom line...people SCREAMING and saying they will never this or never that...have already done as much as is needed to see if your an actual American citizen so this fluff is useless....again...LOGIC....god its such an awesome word!!!