Arizona has done the nation a favor.

www.thedailyshow.com...

yeah real favor!

reply to post by drwizardphd


Put Benjiman Franklin in Arizona right now and let's see if he still says the same thing.

Our founding fathers said what they did based on their experiences in the 1700's.

How anyone can think that what applied in the 1700's also applies to 2010 is beyond me.



Peace

reply to post by prionace glauca


You're right, I'm sorry.

It's just that they're such an easy target.



Peace

I've been thinking about this issue and for a while i was for this resolution produced by the government of Arizona but I have to agree the "papers please" thing is freaky. I mean people on ATS have been talking about this type of policy being implemented for so long and now they're blatantly doing it. Makes no sense why you would agree.

But i do agree this invasion is quite a problem for our nations' ideology and the "American way" so instead of having police asking for papers, why don't we instead cut off their life supply. Make it so it would be impossible for someone to live in the US illegally.
For instance you need to be legally in the US to enjoy the public hospitals, or no welfare support to anyone who is on the US soil illegally.

These type of passive-aggressive movements against invading aliens will force them to go back, and it's all done without force.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by Ominousbeing]

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Everyone that you are speaking of was in their respective country LEGALLY.

This isn't a political, religious, moral, or ethnic issue.

It is a LEGAL issue.

You're confusing potential problems with cuurent issues.



Peace

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple

How anyone can think that what applied in the 1700's also applies to 2010 is beyond me.

Yeah, so I guess we should just trash the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights while we're at it...

After all, they're just 200 year old pieces of paper, right?

You know what, screw it. Who needs a representative Republic anyway? That's an old fashioned idea from the 1700s! Fascism is a much more recent form of government, let's switch over to that!







Seriously,

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

-Abraham Lincoln

Reductio ad Hitlerum, also argumentum ad Hitlerum, (dog Latin for "reduction to Hitler" or "argument to Hitler," respectively) is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument, and is an informal fallacy. It is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context. Hence this fallacy fails to examine the claim on its merit.
source

(See also Godwin's Law )

That being said...

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
The real solution starts with a "L" and it would cut the border violence by cutting the profits of these violent gangs.

Couldn't agree more.

If you remove profitability, the cartels will no longer be able to function. No money to them equals no violence from them.


TheAssoc.



[edit on 1-5-2010 by TheAssociate]

reply to post by piddles


So is this your delusional view of the new law?



Today I was scanning satellite feeds when I came across a reporter in Arizona interviewing everyone from the mayor of Phoenix, to several regular citizens, including a half hour conversation with a sheriff's deputy.

Every single one of them was absolutely in favor of it except the Mayor, who seemed understandably nervous. He babbled on incoherently for 15 minutes covering everything from his favorite Starbucks to the holocaust without really saying anything.

The deputy, on the other hand, spent a half an hour going into meticulous detail about how they're required to conduct themselves in order to protect the rights of anyone and everyone they come across. Whoever thinks they're just going to start harassing and questioning someone, just because they look Hispanic, is either out of their mind, or completely uninformed.

He described several situations, that might lead them to suspect that an individual is an illegal, and offered some great insight into what they have to deal with every day. He also expressed almost a sadness in the way president Obama painted a picture to the nation that didn't even closely resemble reality. The thought that someone walking down the street eating an ice cream with their granddaughter would be harassed, and forced to show their papers, is ridiculous at best.

Obviously, the liberal lapdog media wont be airing the hours of interviews I saw today, and wish I had been recording it to share here. I'm sure it would have shed light on some of the misconceptions I keep seeing in these threads.

Originally posted by TheAssociate

Reductio ad Hitlerum, also argumentum ad Hitlerum, (dog Latin for "reduction to Hitler" or "argument to Hitler," respectively) is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument, and is an informal fallacy. It is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context. Hence this fallacy fails to examine the claim on its merit.
source

(See also Godwin's Law )

Perhaps you missed out the most critical part on such beliefs?

However, Godwin's law itself can be abused, as a distraction, diversion or even censorship, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons.

en.wikipedia.org...'s_law

[edit on 1-5-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

You gotta love it.

NO other nation allows people from other countries to come and go as they please within their borders WITHOUT punishment if they didn't follow the law. NO other country has yet to up and just drop all their immigration laws to appease foreign ILLEGALS within their borders and they do what they must to protect their citizens, their way of life, and their resources....BUT

Let the USA try to protect their citizens, resources, and NOT bend over and take it deep for people who don't belong and we are compared to Hitler!!! Only in todays society are people that stupid.

So if we are Hitler, what does that make the other 194 countries? Since they are either doing what we do or even worse.



[edit on 5/1/2010 by rcwj1975]

The government has declared probable cause inoperative now.
Anyone can be stopped, detained and forced to prove their citizenship on the whim of the police. It doesn't matter what race you are.

I would think that small-government conservatives would be outraged at such a power grab.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


If, at the end of the day, the only "argument" one has against an issue is a tenuous comparison to the Nazi regime, then the person in question has no case.

Back on topic:

Until the government wants to handle this the right way (see my above post), I have no issue with the legislation being discussed.


TheAssoc.

reply to post by rcwj1975


North Korea will positively drool over your magnificient speech! Kan pei!!!! Burma's despots can't believe that you, an american, can come out with such revolutionary speech as solution to problems and would be amazed to the heighest heavens( if they believe in one in the first place). the Iranian leadership would in tears!!!

Welcome to the club!!!!!!

[edit on 1-5-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

S&F

Great post and I agree. what AZ is doing needs to be done. Phoenix is the SECOND most likely city to get kidnapped in in the WORLD. Only behind Mexico City This is a city in the U.S. were talking about. A country that's supposed to have security under control. I'm not going to lie, this scares me because if the Drug Cartels are able to get in this easy and basically rule over part of this Country then whats stopping people who have real intention to destroy it? AZ is doing the right thing.

People want to say this is basically what the Nazi's did but it really isn't. All its requiring is that each person carries identification. I always have my License on me so its not an issue. When Ive traveled abroad i always carry my passport with me so that if i get in trouble i have proper identification. Its not that hard, either they are here legally and can stay or are here illegally and should be removed. If you are not a citizen of this country then you are not covered in the Constitution. Its as simple as that. And to say otherwise is just ignorant.

Welcome to a police state. Funny how the white folks on here won't complain..but what about those who are actually Mexican or non white? What about those who are actually legal? Their rights are pretty much out the window.

Yay. Racism and police control. Good job guys.

"this is a power grab"
"This has turned into a neo nazi cult state"
"we are going to get taggedlike cattle"
"we are goingto getthis...and that"..

...


Really?

You think for a second that the State that finally had the balls to tell the Federal Govt to go F themselves is really all of that?

If you ask me, it is the complete OPPOSITE of what you think it is.
What it REALLY IS, is people in these states getting fed up and actually doing something about it while the rest of the nation sits on the sidelines and boos and cheers but is not really in the game.

Not only are you Btchn about enforcing laws that already exist, but you are also bitchingbecause we WONT IGNORE them because people who committed crimes "want a better life". Do you not see the hypocrisy in all of this?

But no, AZ is the AHOLES because they are the only ones REALLY trying to save their state, besides Texas. The rest of the nation is in stupid mode over all of this because they dont have to deal with it now, and they never will have to. And the states that hate this(e.g.CA), are the states that are failing miserably, so what does that tell you ?




Edit-C.G



[edit on 1-5-2010 by Common Good]

A lot you are saying it applies to all races in the state. NO WAY! You think a cop is gonna stop a white fella because he might be an illegal? Only LEGAL brown-skinned people are actually thinking of what this is going to cause. I think it's just going to cause more violence, mainly against law enforcement, but also among citizens. Arizona is now divided by skin color.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

Put Benjiman Franklin in Arizona right now and let's see if he still says the same thing.

Our founding fathers said what they did based on their experiences in the 1700's.

How anyone can think that what applied in the 1700's also applies to 2010 is beyond me.



Peace

Progressives baffle me, but only most of the time. The constitution still has great applications in regards to 2010.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
Let the USA try to protect their citizens, resources, and NOT bend over and take it deep for people who don't belong and we are compared to Hitler!!! Only in todays society are people that stupid.

So if we are Hitler, what does that make the other 194 countries? Since they are either doing what we do or even worse.

Well Said !! Can we include Mexico in that list, since they have draconian immigration laws ?

reply to post by Gentill Abdulla


i think the point to the thread is the oxymoron that the states had to mirror an existing federal law with a state one to show the court its un constitutionallity

this is a mojor step forward as it provides a policy shift from acepted federal law and state law

its not about making people carry papers its about showing the inequity of the federal law in its consiquence of outcome

edit to add this says the states have to think about the people in a state
level first and formost
and the states mandate to provide independantly to the people over the federal govenment

XPloder

[edit on 1-5-2010 by XPLodER]