Arizona has done the nation a favor.

I must tip my hat to Arizona. The passing of this bill has sent shockwaves through our federal government and the nation as a whole. It has opened up issues that have been audaciously ignored or swept into the corner by our nation for far too long. This bill has done exactly what Arizona intended it to do on several levels, and Arizona should be commended and applauded for bringing these issues to the forefront.

Arizona found itself in an untenable position/ in 2006, then Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano’s strong support of illegal aliens finally forced her to declare a ‘state of emergency’ because the state was overrun by 500,000 illegal aliens. In 2010 Arizona finds it public resources exhausted and social programs overburdened causing hardships and cuts in services to the citizens of Arizona. Drug trafficking and the crime that comes with it, is rampant at the border. Pleas to the federal government to address the border issue were responded to with platitudes of concern but not concerted effort; other than stimulus money to train police in dealing with immigration issues in support of ICE.
As the situation worsened and the federal government failed to act, the government of Arizona found itself backed into a corner. It had no choice but to fulfill its duties under the State and Federal constitutions, to provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty. However Arizona also knew it did not have the money or resources to secure the border in their state short of calling up the National Guard. Arizona figured it had nothing to lose so it decided to stir the pot. Arizona passed a law giving police the authority to question people about their immigration status, while in the course of a legal police stop. The law is almost a mirror image of the federal law. Seeing that most of their police force had been trained in immigration rules and regulations, by the federal government, and seeing as there was federal law dictating the lawful immigration of persons into the country, it seemed only prudent to use them to enforce those laws and help stem the tide until such time as other options can be found.
Arizona’s passage of this law also allowed Arizona to bring into the mix several other issues that have been coming to a boil recently.
A study of the United States constitution will show only one clause on immigration.
Section. 8.
Clause 4: To establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
Therefore Arizona could make a case that under the ninth and tenth amendments it had the authority to control the immigration of aliens across its borders.
Since the state law mirrored current federal law, Arizona could argue that its state law could not be found unconstitutional until such time as the federal law was found to be so. Both laws contain specific rules on when and how police are to enforce this law. These rules address racial profiling, and the idea of requiring citizens to carry papers.
Arizona’s passage of this law has done exactly what Arizona wanted; It has gotten the attention of Washington and the rest of the country. We have been forced to reexamine issues involving racial profiling, states rights, citizens rights, and the basic concepts of common sense that seem to have disappeared from our culture and laws. Arizona has become the spark of what will be an intense debate, and a turning point in this country.

In future post I hope to debate some of the issues brought up with others looking for serious, respectful debate.



[edit on 4/30/2010 by Phedreus]

[edit on 4/30/2010 by Phedreus]

you will get no debate from me.
i stand with ur position.
And I too applaud AZ
and hopefully TX

maybe one day it will get around
to my state


[edit on 30-4-2010 by boondock-saint]

Ok...here is what I do not understand. How is this bill going to even put a dent into drug smuggler rings and organized drug wars? Illegal smugglers will continue to do what they do all the time regardless of laws. The real solution starts with a "L" and it would cut the border violence by cutting the profits of these violent gangs.

reply to post by TheOneElectric


You're absolutly right. Legalizing,regulating and TAXING marijuana would be a great follow-up to the bill.

Cocaine would be next. HIGHLY regulate and tax this one. Slowly cut the purity of the drug to wean people off of it.At the same time,take the proceeds of the tax and create highly intensive re-hab services so as to help the curb and hopefully kill off the demand. Supply can't function without demand.

And this next point I can't stress enough. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT get the federal govt. involved. They are inept and currupt to the point of almost being criminal.They don't give a rats a## about you and I.

When this bill passes all the "tests" it needs to and the rest of the country starts to realize that what we did was right, legalization won't be that hard to accept because everyone will realize that we're doing it for all the right reasons. And the fact that the feds aren't involved will only make our case that much more stronger.



Peace

HEIL ARIZONA!!!

EIN VOLK, EIN ARIZONA, EIN FUHRER!!!

LONG LIVE VOLKSARIZONA !!!

LEBENSRAUM, MEIN KAMPF, HERRENVOLK ARIZONA!!!

So when are the leather jackets, skulls, bones and lightning insignias be trotted out and issued to the Arizona police?

(a sad day when Nazism whom good men had sacrificed their lives to defeat becomes a present day solution)

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


I agree with your idea of it, just the implementation.

Since we cannot speak of it, I will just say, look into the fact that a president of the United States was able to do something awhile back.

Now, why cannot I. Is there an Amendment that has been added that I do not know about?

The only law that was in effect for a citizen based on the Constitution.

You have absolute rights of Life, Liberty and Property (POH). The only criminal act is if you hurt another or infringe on their inherent rights.

I say it is time a state has the BALLS to take this one step further. And make all STATUTES that infringe on everyone's rights to be abolished.

I say it is way past the time that all citizens that think that our government has gone off the deep end, to call for us to follow our hearts and our minds and say enough!

I want all of my rights back. I want my fellow freedom lovers to UNDERSTAND what these corrupt bastards have taken from us. People do not understand that this government and their minions have destroyed our liberties. They have destroyed self determination. They have taken our very ability to say I am pissed and I am NOT going to take it anymore!

I call for a move back to individual sovereignty. To individual freedom. To individual liberty.

And for the most important, to individual RESPONSIBILITY!

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


If you don't like what we're doing, stay away.

If you don't like what we're saying, quit listening.

If you don't like what you see, quit looking.

If you have a VALID argument, state it.

If what we're doing is so wrong, then eventually it will get defeated and you and your ilk can sit back and gloat and say "I told you so".

[ But you and I both know that's not going to happen]



Peace

I don't think I really see any minority defending to this. The bill not only effects Illegals but natives also. Not many natives have the documentation to really prove they are US citizens. Either because they do not know where to get the documents or simply because they don't have a way to get them (i.e. transportation). The Navajo Nation is the biggest reservation in Arizona and the US altogether. I'm just wondering how many natives are going to be "accidently" deported for not having ID, SS cards, or any other form of US documentation. I have been seeing a lot of "hooray for AZ!" not for us who just happen to look Hispanic. Also there are A LOT of racists cops in AZ. It's only a matter of time before they start using this bill against all minorities. Think of it in reverse. Would you be happy if the bill was for anyone who might be Neo Nazi?

PS I'm not supporting the illegals. Just pointing out this does not only effect Mexicans.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Don't feed the trolls,

I agree and to add not only has Arizona done the nation a favor, it has now become the Role Model State that should be followed to get our union back in the hands of our citizens.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by prionace glauca]

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

If you don't like what we're doing, stay away.

If you don't like what we're saying, quit listening.

If you don't like what you see, quit looking.

If you have a VALID argument, state it.

If what we're doing is so wrong, then eventually it will get defeated and you and your ilk can sit back and gloat and say "I told you so".

[ But you and I both know that's not going to happen]



Peace

THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

reply to post by Phedreus


Agreed wholeheartedly with every word - couldn't have said it better myself; maybe now the worthless minority vote solicitors in Washington will pay attention and attempt to come up with a viable solution.

And to the illegal apologist above with the atrocious German - I suggest you spend your time furthering your education instead of trolling. Maybe then you can at least assimilate an entire thought before regurgitating the same tired "Nazi" schtick that is neither insightful nor original.

reply to post by prionace glauca


You can call him a troll all you want, but he's actually making a point (in sort of a blunt way )

You see, the Arizona legislation violates the Constitution.

It infringes upon the rights of Arizona's citizens. (Note: not the rights of the illegals, that's another discussion altogether.)

Basically it requires Arizona's citizens to carry identification that proves citizenship, or face potential arrest. Simply put, it is your right as an American citizen to simply be in public without ID. Under the context of the Arizona law, that right has effectively been nullified.

This is the first step towards a national ID card. How so many people can't see that is beyond me.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

-Benjamin Franklin

sorry guys, I don't agree with your "papers please" policy. Kinda reminds me of some guy, can't remember his name, big on nationalism, made a buncha legislation that discriminated against people not from his country that eventually led to gov't sanctioned genocide...had a silly moustache, you guys know who I'm talking about?

NM

[edit on 1-5-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Legion2112


Trolls for speaking up? You fear my words? LOL! I am sure the Nazis considers Einstein the same thing

Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced.

Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks... Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a grea

t affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.

Quoted by Albert Einstein in Time magazine (23 December 1940) page 38

I am not Einstein, not by a long shot, just an ordinary joe.

Yeah thanks AZ. Now you are going to force the migration of illegals into your surrounding states. How very American.....

why doesnt america just invade and annex mexico make it the 51-52-53 state then they could really go after the drug cartels...and end the border crossing issue.....

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
Ok...here is what I do not understand. How is this bill going to even put a dent into drug smuggler rings and organized drug wars? Illegal smugglers will continue to do what they do all the time regardless of laws. The real solution starts with a "L" and it would cut the border violence by cutting the profits of these violent gangs.

Yep agreed this will do little to stop the problem. Also need to get rid of the welfare state. Take away the incentives for so many illegals to come here and they will stop coming in mass.

Originally posted by RedskinWally
..." The Navajo Nation is the biggest reservation in Arizona and the US altogether. I'm just wondering how many natives are going to be "accidently" deported for not having ID, SS cards, or any other form of US documentation. .." since i am full blooded native... i just show them my casino valued customer ID - POOF!! i'm baaaacckkk

Well I think the majority of us don't think this law will ever really hit the streets, and it is sad that a state finds the need to go to such lengths to get the feds to even blink about this problem. A few more states following AZ will force the feds to finally, and I mean finally get their act together that will help these state, and help illegals from not living the life of a slave laborer as they are now.

As I said we will not see this law actually hit the streets, but the effects of it is huge and needed to be done.