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Rape of woman in skinny jeans 'not possible'

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posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:05 AM
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hmm - this is still going on ? maybe a few people should re readd the article

the entire " concept " of the notion ` rape of a woman in skinny jeans is not possible ` is the fabrication of a single journalist

it is NOT the view of the court , and there is no actual evidence that it is the view of the jury [ unless the journalist and a jouror have committed a criminal offence by discussing the details of the deliberation ]

no - the jury simply asked a question that they thought was relevant - and it appears hat the judge allowed it - and the prosecution and defence supplied further evidence

thats IT

all the rest is the opinionon of one journalist - attempting to project thier views on the actions of the jury

so - when is ATS going to refrain from beating this obviously dead horse ?




posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by Fellow
 


hi - to be blunt - if you are a member of the jury in the case in question - are you actually allowed to discus it ?

the rules on jury duty vary - and discussing the case AFTER the verdict is not allways prohibited - but i am sure it is in english law [ the basis of the australian judicial system ]



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by galadofwarthethird
 


Rape is when a person forces another person to have sex through the use of physical force, threat of injury, the use of drugs or alcohol to prevent the victim from saying no.

I don't see where my definition of rape is at all emotional.

Oh ok you're talking about a crime of passion where there is no premeditation. Even in crimes of passion a crime has still been commited regardless of whether or not it was intended.


So if a man loses control of his emotions and forces your mother, wife, sister, or daughter to have sex with him are you going to say "oh he didn't really rape you, he just got carried away, no harm done" ?


A person that rapes someone is a real rapist regardless of the fact that there was no premeditation. Once a person forces themself on an unwilling person that is a real rape and that person becomes a real rapist.

The jeans should not be any part of that case, lessor or otherwise.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by chise61
 


Lets say my sister went to a dudes house, were there she was forced to have sex by forced drugs and violence, that's rape she didn't want sex even if she went to his house. But if she got drunk and went upstairs without coercion, physical or date rape drugs, she was drunk and horny so they did it. But the next day she remembers that she is married and fells like she was raped, then no she wasn't raped she just regretted her actions the next day, and would take it to court for any number of personal agendas and reasons. I have seen many things in this world, weird stuff, alien craft, and things that would make you shint your pants. But I have never seen a female that went home with a guy if she wasen't thinking of possibley having sex. If you go from a bar drunk to a dudes house even if you know him, chances your not going there to play bingo and listen to him play the drums. I have seen some ditzy chicks in my life that I would be hard placed to classify as intelligent life. But I have never seen a female go home with a guy that she didn't want to funk. Are you telling me females want legal repercussions for every time they felt bad for having sex with a guy. Real rape exists and things like this make it hard for those that were raped to be taken seriously. I'm done with this I sense you mind is set on females are guilt less creatures that can do no wrong, this case is not even a case it's an opinion of a writer that heard of this case. Females need to take responsibility for there actions, if your coerced by a few words to do something you dont want, you have issues that you would like others to take care of.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by badw0lf

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not


This verdict disturbs me.

It appears to part of the increasing habit (agenda?) of blaming the victim.




I agree whole heartedly but...


Females really need to watch what they ware or not ware.

NO

I do not condone the actions of a pervert,

Let's be real woman THEY are out there.


Bull, they can 'wear' what they want - if you think that makes it ok for some bloody sicko to rape them, pfft.

I like how you cover your arrogance with a disclaimer tho.




OK I knew I would be slammed. My exGF was raped and so was my oldest SISTER. I know you meant well. BUT I do not support "Sicko's"

CHECK your fire!


I have had to deal with the after effects.

I noticed HOW you and MANY others ignored my follow up!


Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not
 


Oh don't get me wrong....

females should be females and have a right to dress as they please!



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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This thread bears a strong resemblance to the older discussion here with many of the very same arguments pro/con issues regarding women and clothing choice. Something always to bear in mind:

Correlation does not imply causality.

This discussion is enlightening and for the most part, handled with good intentions and honesty. I am however, disappointed that the topic has devolved into a conversation based on the clothing choices and modesty of women. The last pages of this thread have been argued to death and in the process, buried the bigger picture in details not necessarily of the most important. A much larger concept to not lose sight of is - a person's responsibility (to themselves) to actively do what they can, to be safe.

In a perfect world, all people should be free to choose how they wish to express themselves and to do so, without having to worry about safety and other negative repercussions. Unfortunately, in the real world, this is not the case.

Is clothing a contributing factor in this case, or in any other rape case? Perhaps. I would argue that it is the potential to draw the attention of a predator to oneself, that is the result of that contributing factor, that must not be forgotten.

However, consider this...

If I am wearing color at a time when most are wearing black, do I draw attention? If I am jogging in shorts and a tank top instead of sweats and a t-shirt, do I draw attention? If I am taller, or shorter, louder, or quieter than most, do I draw attention? If I have blond hair or red hair, instead of brown hair, do I draw attention? If I have long hair and choose to wear it down, instead of up, do I draw attention? What if my jeans are tight instead of baggy? If I am wearing a dress at a time when most are wearing jeans, do I draw attention?

The point is that clothing choices and modesty and what draws the attention of someone else to you, is in the eye of the beholder.

Do I absolve women (or anyone) from the responsibility of watching out for themselves? No. Do I believe that everyone should be aware of where they are, who they are with and what they are doing? Yes. Do I believe that anyone, at anytime, can draw the attention of a predator? Yes. Do I place blame on a victim of a rape crime? No. No way.



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by galadofwarthethird
 



But I have never seen a female that went home with a guy if she wasen't thinking of possibley having sex.


And because you've never seen it, that means that it's not possible ?

News flash there are plenty of men and women out there that go out for drinks as friends and go to each other's houses without the thought of having sex with each other.



Are you telling me females want legal repercussions for every time they felt bad for having sex with a guy.


No I'm not, nor have I posted anything that could be construed as I'm even remotely implying any such thing. I think perhaps you have it in your mind that this is something that women want.



I'm done with this I sense you mind is set on females are guilt less creatures that can do no wrong,


No actually I know for a fact that not all women are not guilt free, and that there are women out there that cry rape where there was none. I also know that the women that cry rape falsely make it harder for the women that have truely been raped.

But it does seem to me that you have a very poor opinion of women which is evident to me by the way that you refer to them as only "females" and "chicks" instead of women. Coupled with the fact that you believe that a woman couldn't possibly spend time with a male friend unless she was looking for sex.

I'm glad that I don't view men in the same light that you view women.



this case is not even a case it's an opinion of a writer that heard of this case.


Actually it was an actual rape case, and Bellinda Kontominas is a court reporter which would mean that she was present at the trial.

As I've told you at least twice already I am not making a judgement as to whether or not the man is guilty as I don't have all the facts. I'm simply saying that the jeans shouldn't be a factor in the case.

However you seem hellbent on passing judgement on the woman, as you keep saying things like they were drunk and messing around, she left the bar drunk, etc even though the article says no such thing. And btw if she was drunk then she wasn't in her right mind and possibly not coherent enough to even say no, which in many cases is considered date rape. If you have an article that states the woman was drunk, post a link i'll read it.

But then again you're merely basing your opinion on what you assume....


But I can assume that it's more of a consent on both parties that they ended up drunk in his room........



Let's just agree to disagree.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by LadySkadi
This thread bears a strong resemblance to the older discussion here with many of the very same arguments pro/con issues regarding women and clothing choice. Something always to bear in mind:

Correlation does not imply causality.

That is true, but to deny strong correlations in some cases out of political correctness is embracing ignorance. We hear many cases of young women that have claimed sexual assault and/or rape after they have gone out dressed with the intention of drawing the spotlight on themselves and flirting with people they don't know. These are recipes for disaster.


This discussion is enlightening and for the most part, handled with good intentions and honesty. I am however, disappointed that the topic has devolved into a conversation based on the clothing choices and modesty of women. The last pages of this thread have been argued to death and in the process, buried the bigger picture in details not necessarily of the most important. A much larger concept to not lose sight of is - a person's responsibility (to themselves) to actively do what they can, to be safe.

Well put. The thing is that it is difficult to remain 100% on topic when hearing stories like this because they always seem to elicit other issues that cannot be ignored. The vast majority - if not all - posters on this thread agree that clothing alone does NOT increase or decrease the likelihood of rape. Personal responsibility is something that gets overlooked in stories such as these, so you are correct in saying that.


In a perfect world, all people should be free to choose how they wish to express themselves and to do so, without having to worry about safety and other negative repercussions. Unfortunately, in the real world, this is not the case.

Agreed.


Is clothing a contributing factor in this case, or in any other rape case? Perhaps. I would argue that it is the potential to draw the attention of a predator to oneself, that is the result of that contributing factor, that must not be forgotten.

Yes, that is the argument many people are putting forward. It is about making yourself a target to predators that should be discouraged.


However, consider this...

If I am wearing color at a time when most are wearing black, do I draw attention? If I am jogging in shorts and a tank top instead of sweats and a t-shirt, do I draw attention? If I am taller, or shorter, louder, or quieter than most, do I draw attention? If I have blond hair or red hair, instead of brown hair, do I draw attention? If I have long hair and choose to wear it down, instead of up, do I draw attention? What if my jeans are tight instead of baggy? If I am wearing a dress at a time when most are wearing jeans, do I draw attention?

I see the point you are making, but I truly believe there are reasonable boundaries. For example, lets say you have a daughter. Don't go out dressed in a way you would object your daughter does. Would you have no problem allowing your daughter going out with a low-cut top, really short skirt where her T&A are purposely emphasised?


The point is that clothing choices and modesty and what draws the attention of someone else to you, is in the eye of the beholder.

Agreed. But surely there are reasonable expectations. For example, would you deem it appropriate to attend a parent-teachers night dressed in a bikini? How about attending a board meeting in tracksuit pants and a t-shirt when everyone else is in business suits?


Do I absolve women (or anyone) from the responsibility of watching out for themselves? No. Do I believe that everyone should be aware of where they are, who they are with and what they are doing? Yes. Do I believe that anyone, at anytime, can draw the attention of a predator? Yes. Do I place blame on a victim of a rape crime? No. No way.

Genuine rape is a crime. Forcing sex upon somebody against their will is unacceptable behaviour in a civilised society and always will be. Just be aware that making yourself a target only increases the chance you will find harm. (That goes for many other situations in life.)

[edit on 4/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by chise61
 

I have seen many things in this world, weird stuff, alien craft, and things that would make you shint your pants. But I have never seen a female that went home with a guy if she wasen't thinking of possibley having sex.


galadofwarthethird.....

You win.....quote of the thread!




[edit on 4-5-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 02:25 AM
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When a discussion about rape again turns into being about what a woman wears.. rapists reading it have yet another medium that justifies their intentions for their next weekend out drink spiking. Prepetuating this myth/stigma does not prevent women getting raped.. it encourages it. You make it true by telling rapists flirty clothes make those women fair game.

[edit on 4-5-2010 by riley]



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by chise61
 
Lets say my sister went to a dudes house, were there she was forced to have sex by forced drugs and violence, that's rape she didn't want sex even if she went to his house. But if she got drunk and went upstairs without coercion, physical or date rape drugs, she was drunk and horny so they did it.

snip

But I have never seen a female that went home with a guy if she wasen't thinking of possibley having sex.

Does this include those women who have had their drink spiked and are literally carried out, put in taxis yet have no real awareness of what is going on while the guys get patted on the back for their conquest? You spoke of rape drugs but how would you know the difference? Being drunk or drugged might look exactly the same and they may not be voluntarily be going home with them.

[edit on 4-5-2010 by riley]



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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reply to post by chise61
 




you keep saying things like they were drunk and messing around, she
left the bar drunk, etc even though the article says no such thing.


If you have an article that states the woman was drunk, post
a link i'll read it.


From the article linked in the original post of this thread:



Content from external source:
Nicholas Eugenio Gonzalez was accused of raping the 24-year-old as she
consoled him about breaking up with one of her friends.



The woman had told the Sydney District Court she and Mr Gonzalez had met for drinks
in April 2008 before going to his Surry Hills house to listen to music.


So, met for drinks, then went home with him.



Content from external source:
pushed the woman on to his bed


So, met for drinks, went home with him...and followed him to his bedroom.

At some point ladies, I think you need to take personal responsibility. If you jump out in front of a moving car, you might get hit. If you go drinking with your friends ex-boyfriend to "console" him, then go home with him and go straight to his bedroom, sex may result.

If this woman genuinely did not understand what was going on, and was genuinely surprised at what happened...then I apologize, but I have no sympathy for her. She might as well have stripped her clothes off and spray painted "HI! COME HAVE SEX WITH ME!!!" across her torso in great big bold neon letters and then turned around and said, "oh...but I didn't mean I wanted sex!"

This is a communication issue. Men are expected to be the ones who initiate action. A woman communicates that she is or is not receptive. Men are likely to initiate action on women who communicate that they are receptive. If you commnicate to a man "HI! I'M RECEPTIVE DO ME NOW PLEASE!!!" I think it's reasonable for him to act on that.

And if you're so bad at communicating your intentions that you think asking out your friend's ex-boyfriend, going drinking with him, going home with him, going straight to his bedroom and putting yourself between him and his bed is a good way to communicate that you want a purely platonic relationship...then try to understand that when you try to communicate "no" you probably won't get that across effectively either.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 


Being in the same room as a man does not mean "force me down on the bed and rape me." I find it funny how poeple are obsessed with talking about personal responsibilty yet seem unconcerned about men forcing themselves inside unconsenting women. Why is personal responsibilty not applying to men?

If she went into the bedroom she is partially responsible for her own rape? Well in that case he can be personally responsible for being charged with it and going to jail. A grown man knows the law and knows it's NOT okay to force a woman to have sex with him. To imply that he is not responsible for the actions caused by his erection implies that you think he's no more human than a dog chases bitches in heat.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


May I suggest something? Rather than argue, let's try to understand one another. You can speak at me, and I can speak at you...we can speak at each other, but this accomplishes very little if there's no communication.




it's NOT okay to force a woman to have sex


You're right. I agree with you. We agree. Everyone in this thread agrees with this.



Being in the same room as a man does not mean
"force me down on the bed and rape me."


Again you are right. And again I agree with you. And I think everyone in this thread will also agree. Being in the same room with a man does not mean "force me down on the bed and rape me."

So we agree.

So since we agree, let me just ask you, and I'll listen...how does a woman communicate to a man "I would like to have sex now please. Not rape, but sex. I am receptive to you. I appreciate your masculinity, and it inspires a warm, tingly feminine feeling inside me, and I want to be female for you. Sexually."

How does a woman communicate that?



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:48 AM
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I know this will sound boring and puritanical and not how things are in the Real World - BUT.

Maybe men should take more responsibility and not have sex with women when they are in a vulnerable state, very drunk and or upset about their marriage etc. I know its a chance thats to good too miss and all that, but what if you are just taking advantage and in the normal way she wouldn't want you. Not very flattering is it?

Better to wait until she has sobered up and (and recovered from her hang-over) to see if there ever was any chemistry there. if she wants to see you again she will.

I know none of this will mean anything to real rapists because they don't enjoy sex, they just hate women. However, it might save silly innocent guys from upsetting silly innocent women and being accused of rape when they never had that intention.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 03:48 AM
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reply to post by loner007
 


"I think all females should have some sort of personal defense device in which should someone tries to attack her, she should use it. Pepper spray comes to mind or a tazer...."

...or a .357, or a .44 magnum come to mind also. If you leave the scum sucker alive he can tell the cops anything. Dead men tell no tales. Less than lethals sound good on paper, but actually get people in more legal trouble than to just ventilate his skull, and be done with it. Plus, Mother nature will applaud you for cleaning the gene pool.



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:07 AM
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God I'm so boring and old fashioned (I'm saving you the trouble of saying it).

The idea that a man should seek the approval of women by passing up the chance of quick sex is so self righteous it makes you cringe............so it cannot be discussed. Oh dear!

If this whole thread is all based on a fake story by one journalist, what was the motivation?

Whatever the truth, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that rapists all seem to blame their victims and that is part of their mindset.

Whether the law cares to deal with this or not, all non-rapist males need to deal with the fact that they might have to (temporarily?) forgo some pleasure to protect a woman's dignity.

But there I go again, preaching at you all.

Men who want to be liked by women are just so sad. Maybe a lot of woman would be offended if you didn't have sex with them when they were drunk and saying 'I'm just checking whether you really like me' would be absurd. Who knows, but perhaps its best to be safe. Maybe slightly tipsy is alright, but when a girl is out of her head perhaps she needs to be cared for instead? _javascript:icon('
')



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by riley
 

So since we agree, let me just ask you, and I'll listen...how does a woman communicate to a man "I would like to have sex now please. Not rape, but sex. I am receptive to you.

Yes we agree. Good.

okay then.

She can say she wants to have sex or she can say she does NOT want to have sex. It's not a difficult answer to understand or confuse. Men are not so stupid that they do not know when they don't have consent. Men are not so stupid that they think consenting to sex means rape. Also.. a woman can consent to sex but saying yes does NOT mean she has consented to being violently rammed like a piece of meat in a butcher shop.

edit. Sorry I really can't clean that up as thats apt.

[edit on 4-5-2010 by riley]



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:49 AM
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One thing I've learned, You cant rape the willing!



posted on May, 4 2010 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by LordBucket
 


You raise some very valid points, LordBucket.

But there is no getting through to certain members on this issue. They view the act of rape in complete isolation and don't care about the context. Part of stopping this harmful behaviour is understanding the context of how, not just the why, it takes place. You can point out the how, but they just fixate on the why. Men and women really are from different planets in many ways. The signals sent out by one sex are likely to be interpreted and received differently to the other.

[edit on 4/5/2010 by Dark Ghost]



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